May 30, 2016 by Mark de LA
Very interesting AI movie. At least 4½  thumbs up (out of 5) in my taste.
cool
by Mark de LA in group mark — 2016-05-30 07:08:41 thought 20976
1 comment thread
Seth 2016-05-30 07:38:43 [item 20976#52458]
thumbs upthumbs up
May 29, 2016 by Seth
this recipe … and for the bbq sauce   ... or maybe this

shopping list for mean:  brown sugar, fresh dill, potatoes, garlic, red onion, meat rub.

here are the ribs rubbed with rub with love , all purpose Smkey Barbecue Rubb  … check out the ingredients, all of the ones i would have used had i done it myself …
both of which i purchaced from the meat vendor  behind where they throw the fish in the pike place market, …  right after i took this god awful video of a performer who dserves a better showing than i have put on youtube.
so now double covered in Renolds wrap and in the onven now with A pot of beans at 275 according to the dial of my oven at 11:35 Am

and that is my story of what happened … of what i did … and i am sticking to it. 
    by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-27 19:22:01, changed 2016-05-29 12:00:43 thought 20972
    1 comment thread
    Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-30 09:58:27 [item 20972#52462]
    Mark de LA 2016-05-30 08:35:26 [item 20972#52460]
    Did you enjoy rubbing your meat? laughing
    Seth 2016-05-30 09:46:14 [item 20972#52461]
    laughing well i didnt’t notice that.   but cooking the meat like that gave falling off the bones a new life … it was more like pulled pork, than ribs.  maybe next time 2 ½ hrs would be enough.
    👍
    May 29, 2016 by Mark de LA
    https://www.facebook.com/thefreethoughtprojectcom/videos/1751271798426413/ 


    & in politics these days the ceremonial piece of shit in the Whitehouse still thinks he is the most powerful man in the world when he opens his mouth & other people steal in his name & murder for? (*) you good folks. laughing
      


    (*) Facebook reminded me of something I wrote 4 years ago.
    by Mark de LA in group mark — 2016-05-29 11:34:28 thought 20975
    May 29, 2016 by Seth
    based upon the following recipe, prior experiences, and what i have read on the net  ...
    so onions, peppers, garlic, bacon grease and a bit of salt ← sauteed first then brought chicken stock and beans to boil and stashed in oven here at 275 degrees for maybe 4 hours.  ,

    So this time …
    • i soaked 2 cups of pinto beans overnight and then some
    • put about a T of bacon grease in a small dutch oven and melted it
    • chopped up a bunch of onions as finely as my eyes would allow
    • added them to the pot with some salt
    • chopped up a humungous clove of giant garlic and added it to the pot
    • after the onions had softened i added the beans which had been drained of their soaking water
    • i added about 3 cups of plain water which came right up to the top of the small dutch oven
    • waiting for it to come to a boil now
    ← that is my story of what actually did happen.
    • after it boiled i put it in the oven at 275 degrees at ~ 11AM
    • one worry i have is that there will be enough water to get absorbed by the beans as they simmer – hence i will check that periodically 
    by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-29 10:07:41 thought 20974
    no comments
    May 28, 2016 by nathan
    Offline.
     
    Other possible status

    Online at Carolina Hemlocks campground pavilion internet.

    Online at a coffee shop.

    Online at a library.

    Online at a host home.

    In an alternate verse.
     
      by nathan in group nathan — 2016-05-24 11:54:35, changed 2016-05-28 14:27:55 thought 20959
      no comments
      May 28, 2016 by Seth

      ... it just so happens, that is what can be shared. 

      The meta world of thought and individual subjectivity is about what happens … or what could happen, or what didn’t happen, or what will happen. 

      Me, i am “into” getting my meta world to accurately match what actually does happen.  That is just my particular thingey.  I call it truth.

      Yet there is the drama, passion, magic and art of the subjective meta world creating what happens.    It does not matter,  which came first, the world or the meta world … the chicken or the egg.    All we know is that together we share what happens .... 
       
      This river doth not flow just one way. 

      picture credit heart
      by Seth in group seth — 2016-04-20 04:45:10, changed 2016-05-28 11:10:20 thought 20827
      May 27, 2016 by Seth

      I hate electronic devices. I am forced to plug away in front of this brain sucking device so that I can promote myself and my interests, lest I slip into obscurity (my new favorite word, thanks to Jessica Pearl Down). But, we will pay for all of this mind numbing bullshit someday. we already are.
      Please, for the love of God, get your hands dirty with the sweet earth. Play some music, dance. I grieve for my own humanity and the connection that is being lost every second I am in front of this blasted instrument of illusion.
      Go fuck yourself.

      lara pederson on facebook

      well the messages that fly, person to person, on this grand societal network are no different in kind than the thoughts that fly around inside the private boundary of your being. If you realized that, would you have that same abhorrence of the mechanism of your thinking that you have expressed towards the mechanism of thinking in our society at large?
       
       
      by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-27 13:21:57 thought 20971
      1 comment thread
      nathan 2016-05-28 13:56:56 [item 20971#52427]
      Thoughtful response.  
      May 27, 2016 by Mark de LA
      Pretty kewl video from the old days – koyannisqatsi of a different flavor. pondering if any novel update has showed up recently?  Still a little over 8.5 million in the city which proves only that you still can’t put 10 lbs of shit in a 5 lb bag. laughing
        by Mark de LA in group feeling domains — 2016-05-27 11:40:43 thought 20970
        1 comment thread
        Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-27 12:45:27 [item 20970#52421]
        Seth 2016-05-27 12:26:12 [item 20970#52420]
        yeah a story well told.  i actually watched the whole episode thumbs up
        👍
        May 27, 2016 by Seth

        ← activated on website 8:40 am

        ← sending test emails 9:18 am
        by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-27 08:34:10 thought 20969
        no comments
        May 26, 2016 by Seth
        moved here from group test … used to have a script that could not be edited by people with no scripting prividlidges.
        by Seth in group fbi — 2016-05-23 16:01:19, changed 2016-05-26 15:25:22 thought 20957
        5 comment threads
        Seth 2016-05-24 09:43:45 [item 20957#52325]
        note the body of the comment cannot be edited, not even its metadata,  with the privileges of the group because it contains a script. 
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:03:29 [item 20957#52326]
        Well of course not. If just anyone was allowed to put a <script> tag in a thought or comment then they could literally take over the river and the news and a group and basically anywhere that thought or comment was displayed and do anything they wanted. Nasty business that would be!  
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:31:58 [item 20957#52333]
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:06:03 [item 20957#52327]
        Now what you do instead is get someone with script privlides to review that for safety and then put it in a script file for you and then you can call it up with a [!plugin myscriptname.js] tag. 
        Seth 2016-05-24 10:15:47 [item 20957#52329]
        can the script “file” be any URI,  for example: http://www.geogebra.org/scripts/gastats.js?v=1463994116 ?
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:18:13 [item 20957#52330]
        It can do anything javascript can do so yes, it can entrain that script using standard ajax script loading techniques and also run any language or thing you give it the ability to do which is pretty much anything of any kind … which is why it needs protection.  
        Seth 2016-05-24 10:29:07 [item 20957#52332]
        yes of course.   I was aking whether the file could be located anywhere, like at foreign domain ?  it seems to me then if anybody can call up a script with [!plugin http://www.geogebra.org/scripts/gastats.js?v=1463994116 ]  then they still can do anything that any script would allow.  So where are these kinds of scripts to be put on a specific td domain, and what kind of access control is provided for them?  Is it possible for a <script> to even run code on the server?
        Right. The argument to plugin must be on this domain. That is the safety.

        <script> cannot directly run code on the server. Code can only be run on the server via the API which is protected as has been well discussed and documented in group graph api 
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:52:29 [item 20957#52337]
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:28:31 [item 20957#52331]
        However, that would have to be done in the “approved script”. The argument to plugin cannot be a script on another domain or your right back in the boat of anyone being able to run any code they want anywhere the thought is displayed. There is always that extra stub to keep things safe. No system I know of allows general users to put <script> tags in displayed content. That is always reserved for owners of the larger content base and developers.
        Seth 2016-05-24 10:32:32 [item 20957#52334]
        ok so that is clear.    But where are these scripts to be put?  And what kind of access is provided to them … for example there might be a scipt that only special people wan put in their thoughts and comments, but others do not have access to address them.
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:34:56 [item 20957#52335]
        Well, you and I pretty well covered all of that in prior communications. I realize you won’t remember all that, but interestingly the gist of it is out there in thoughts. Just needs to be coalesced into some common doc somehow.  
        Seth 2016-05-24 10:50:07 [item 20957#52336]
        one time you provided some scripting directories and even some tools for an administrator to access and maintain them.  however when i went to look for that facility, i could not find it.   What happened to it?  Point is we need to build the administrators group so that it does provide the tools necessary for a domain to maintain and configure itself quite independent of itinerant developers … and those tools need to propagated to new TDs with provisions for them to evolve with the system.  The tools and the doc should be tagged so that anybody can find or remember them.   This scripting access is just one of those features.
         
        Yes. That is exactly my item 20865#52229 # 3  
        nathan 2016-05-26 14:07:40 [item 20957#52387]
        nathan 2016-05-24 10:57:44 [item 20957#52338]
        As far as how and where things are organized … that’s not really my area but the owner of the domains area.  I have organized all the API stuff under group graph api. Clearly the other “developer related” stuff you mention should not be in group admin because the administrators of a domain are rarely developers and stuff at that level would confuse them and get them in serious trouble.

        There is developer stuff in tiggerandhobbs and in unit tests and in library, some of it only available to high level people or in back rooms. 
        Seth 2016-05-24 11:59:11 [item 20957#52346]
        well i can see a group just for developer tools as separate from the group for administrators.   but the same cooperation and evolution applies now to two groups.  it should propogate and update and evolve.   thing is we don’t want to fragment this unnecessarily … more groups to propogate and control just gets in our way. 

        so let’s say we have the following to propogate … thinking quite out loud ...
        1. administrators
        2. developers
        3. documentation
        things in places like  tiggerandhobbs and unit tests wold need to be moved into one of those to get manifested to propagate and evolve.

        seems to me that library would be under developers … but it could be a separate group.
         
        Sounds like a good start. Library is intended to showcase plugins and any other goodie for people to use and/or buy … so it should not be something just for developers. 
        May 26, 2016 by Mark de LA
        From RS on the Foundation Stone Meditation

        For Rudolf Steiner said that the building was to be a place in which the soul of man could find the spirit. He also said that the Goetheanum and the content of Anthroposophy formed an inward unity – they were related as a nut to its shell. The forms corresponded – in fact he once compared the forms of the Goetheanum with the cake mould in which a pound cake (Napfkuchen) is baked. He gave a precise description of these relationships when he spoke about the spiritual formative forces. He said these were forces ‘which live in the spirit, and have the power to impress themselves on that which surrounds us as a sheath in our building.’

        On another occasion he said that the building was a living word, an organ of speech for the spirit, a signpost to the spirit. He summed up the Goetheanum when he called it a ‘House of Speech’ (Haus der Sprache’). This House of Speech was visible on the earth. Now that it has been destroyed by fire, it can be found I the spiritual world as an Imagination. It is, in fact, a task of modern humanity to concern itself inwardly with it in Imaginations.

          by Mark de LA in group mark — 2016-05-26 11:03:07 thought 20966
          no comments
          May 26, 2016 by Mark de LA
          Of particular interest is rackets & winning formulas (now strong suit) :
          • Racket.™ A persistent complaint combined with a fixed way of being. Rackets are maintained because of payoffs (see payoff) and persist until dropping the racket (and thus its associated cost) is chosen. Abd
          • Strong suit. Special skills developed as a response to early childhood trauma and consequential choices. Strong suits can be excellent tools, but they are not generally transformative when we depend only on them. Strong suits used to be called "winning formulas". Abd
          Landmark (LEC) was the progeny of Werner Erhard’s EST.
          Of particular these two distinctions of human behavior effect the interaction of people with other people.
          Seth & I have our divergent & sometimes convergent rackets & winning formulas as a result of limited social interaction outside of schools in our formative years.  We both developed an almost polar opposite approach & yet we both ended up at PJ2 & are still talking on fastblogit. thumbs uproseheart
            by Mark de LA in group law of attraction — 2016-05-26 09:57:19 thought 20965
            1 comment thread
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-27 07:41:16 [item 20965#52410]
            Seth 2016-05-27 00:38:10 [item 20965#52409]
            Long ago I have noticed that i am not open and natural with people socially, especially strangers.   In social situations i tend to introvert, avoid expressing myself, and don’t really care what others are expressing … and in general am ineffective and don’t have any fun.   Yet i notice that many others seem quite natural in these situations and are quite joyously effective.   I have been struggling with this all my adult life.  I think now i am becoming more natural with others … but progress is slow … and it is hard not to fall back on my old social habits.

            Mark, do you notice similar social habits?   If so, how have you adapted to them?
            Much of it. With age comes some wisdom, some times. I find that I have much more interesting stuff going on than many people I meet. Shyness is an Ego protection adaptation; probably a safeguard to avoid exposing that one is full of shit.  You are asking about my winning formula a la the Landmark lingo.  I have a pattern which stems from a deep feeling that I don’t know enough.  I have encountered many others who have the same pattern.  It keeps me always seeking & transforming & inventing on my own.  Most of the original pattern is gone &/or I don’t give a shit about it any longer – I quit jousting that there is anything wrong with me because of my childhood.
            May 26, 2016 by Seth
            I had a dream about this matrix.  It defines 4 spaces, (A, B, a, b), created by 2 egos interacting.  Each space has a specific context … it contains, as it were, certain things or spirits or processes.   This is another way of thinking about “Bozos Discovery”.
             
              me you
            objective
            public
            outsides
            shared
            A B
            subjective
            private
            insides
            hid
            a b

            Some things can be read off of the diagram.   For you to visit a, or for me to visit b, we would necessarily have to leave out egos behind … or we simply could not go into those spaces or behold the things in those contexts.    By definition the same cannot be said about me visiting B or you visiting A. 

            pondering What other things can we read off of this diagram?   For example the more my sense channels are practically closed down, the less i will know about the contexts in spaces A, B, or b.  That is the situation when i go to sleep.
            by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-26 06:58:56 thought 20964
            8 comment threads
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 10:05:20 [item 20964#52362]
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-26 09:08:59 [item 20964#52355]
            Egos in boxes doesn’t work for me. I would ask you who is the conductor & engineer for the train of your thoughts & the course of your life? Your emotions? Your actions & doings? 
               … & maybe where is he? 
             
            Seth 2016-05-26 09:30:15 [item 20964#52357]
            Well if you think this matrix depicts egos in boxes,  what box would the me ego be within … a or A ?  

            But i don’t think this matrix depicts egos in boxes at all.   Were i to depict that i would draw the ego as the box (not what is within the box) … it is that which stands between or separates the inside context from the outside context. 

            Does the box control what happens … or as you put it, “conduct and engineer the train of thoughts and the course of my life” ?   I guess you could put it that way.   Where is it?  well wherever i am … that is pretty obvious. 
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-26 09:34:46 [item 20964#52358]
            Whatever aug-U-meant – is whatever to confining consciousness & sheds little light on human communication & behavior.  I asked a better question. rose
            Seth 2016-05-26 09:52:03 [item 20964#52361]
            well recognizing that which separates the inside from the outside as “confining consciouness” certainly is understanding human communication & behavior … that is clear to me.   i certainly expect that your question feels better to you.   both of those are examples of what i call Bozos Discovery.
            Yep, can’t get out of your box! laughing I ended up reading Pursuing Consciousness on my kindle waiting for an appointment at the clinic. Something always shows up when I read it that applies to the current circumstances & the following is no exception:

            8: 12 Manipulation is what most people do most of the time. We speak or interact non-verbally for the purpose of producing some effect or reaction in the other person. We’re attempting to generate an impression or to alter another’s experience in some way that serves a purpose of our own. Recall some of your past interactions in this light and notice how much was actually not communication at all but simply verbal manipulation. No matter how innocently it’s done or how well-intentioned it seems, it is still a manipulation.

            8: 13 Communication, on the other hand, is simply and honestly sharing an experience, period. The only motivation behind it is to get it across. The communication may provide information, or create understanding, or some such, but that is a result of the shared experience itself. It is not an attempt to indirectly handle your needs by creating some effect in the receiver. Can you see the distinction here?

            Ralston, Peter (2015-03-10). Pursuing Consciousness: The Book of Enlightenment and Transformation (Kindle Locations 2435-2442). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition. 

            rose
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 10:06:48 [item 20964#52363]
            The rest of the chapter is even more useful thumbs up
            Seth 2016-05-26 10:54:13 [item 20964#52370]
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-26 10:41:32 [item 20964#52367]
            Another way of saying it … again … is you drew another map & made another model which see item 20938 for mehr licht .cool
             
            well yes of course i did draw another model and made another map.   no question about it.   such representations are part of how i understand things.   this one was a representation of something that emerged in an actual dream … which was far more detailed … which level of detail is yet too deep in my subjective private mind to manifest it in writings or graphics and may well be just random drama to titilate my feelings.   the part i did represent here i thought was tangeable enough that it could be shared by others.
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 13:01:06 [item 20964#52375]
            Seth 2016-05-26 11:18:54 [item 20964#52371]
            mark: the wallaby/metaphor of a train conductor navigating my mind which during contemplation seems to have many conductors was an interesting one to share & your wallaby at the time seemed to be a good or first place to park the train

            yes certainly thumbs up.   a different model from mine … might even be interesting to compare the two.   i am failure with that model as a Homunculus … a image of my being within my being. 

            my model that you provoked by your comment was more of a sea urchin filtering morsels from water  … itself being the wall between inside and outside … and navigating and swimming that way.   that one seems to match my experience better.  

            no judgment however … its up to you to express yours better to me.  who knows, i might even notice that it matches better were it to have more detail.  what actual features can you read off of it?


             
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 11:22:53 [item 20964#52372]
            There is no homunculus in mine! Must be in your model of what you think my model is.  I just got the train metaphor from the clutter beginning meditation this AM – so many partial conversations enticing my attention to continue along a train of thought.
            Seth 2016-05-26 12:48:14 [item 20964#52374]
            who is navigating the train?   if it is, as you say, the lur of “partial conversations”, then what agent chooses which ones get attention and determines where the train goes?  you called it the “navigator” … but in the language of philosophy such a navigator is a homunculus .. that is the way that word has been used … research it, i am pretty sure you will find what in my mind garnered that association.   not that there is anything wrong with it.   my only complaint with it is that it just kicks the can down the road … why not just say that “you” select what to pay attention to.   yet when the train goes in a direction, not of “your” choosing, who changed the track?
            Nope! still no homunculus – see Wikipedia “A homunculus (Latin for "little man", plural: "homunculi"; from the masculine diminutive form of homo, "man") is a representation of a small human being. Popularized in sixteenth century alchemy and nineteenth century fiction, it has historically referred to the creation of a miniature, fully formed human. “  .. AC referred to such as something related to their sex magick.
            I described what I used the train metaphor for above which stands sua spontesmug
            (*)
            ← Goethe’s Faust illustration
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 13:23:26 [item 20964#52377]
            Seth 2016-05-26 13:13:39 [item 20964#52376]
            a more pertinent article in Wikipedia is the “Homunculus argument”. 
            see also the Turtles all the way down objection, bottom of article.

            yet i am sure you can restate your model eliminating the objection.  i am just trying to provoke that clarification … to get at that which now remains deep inside you.
            Again this has nothing to do with what I wrote but enjoy the glow of whatever you think you said & how brilliant you think you said it. 
            She should have died hereafter;
            There would have been a time for such a word.
            — To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
            Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
            To the last syllable of recorded time;
            And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
            The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
            Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
            That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
            And then is heard no more. It is a tale
            Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
            Signifying nothing.


            Macbeth (Act 5, Scene 5, lines 17-28)

             

            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 13:42:57 [item 20964#52378]
            Or much shorter meme:
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 14:01:29 [item 20964#52384]
            Seth 2016-05-26 10:26:07 [item 20964#52365]
            well you cannot get out of the box, because you are the box.  that is in the sense of “you” referring to your ego.   so it hangs together nicely to consider the ego as the box …  rather than something that is in the box.   it becomes even clearer (perhaps) if you behold a turbulent river … imagine a portion of the the river being contained in an imaginary box … now imagine the imaginary box disappearing.   It is clear to me that the stronger the actual box the more what is inside of it will be distinct from what is outside of it … the more it will survive as a coherent box inside the turbulent river.  that model holds together quite well and even matches with tag alan watts

            i think i do both 8.12 and 8.13,  as do we all.  but i do tend to avoid manipulation … i am not all that good at it anyway.  i tend rather to try to anticipate the effect of my speech and actions on others and even their reactions back on myself. 
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-26 10:29:39 [item 20964#52366]
            … which is just more manipulation.  Maybe read the chapter for mehr licht .thumbs up
            Seth 2016-05-26 10:47:01 [item 20964#52368]
            well i called what i just said to you as expressing to you the relivant context in the matrix labeled “a” which was pertinent directly to your comment.    i call that attempted communication and find it strange that you call it manipulation.  But your last sentence i see only as manipulation … you clearly want me to read the chapter. 
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-26 10:52:59 [item 20964#52369]
            Yep, RWG is the ultimate manipulation – hard to unautomate … I’m guilty too … best to ignore all that I disagree with … then too the wallaby/metaphor of a train conductor navigating my mind which during contemplation seems to have many conductors was an interesting one to share & your wallaby at the time seemed to be a good or first place to park the train … pondering
            nathan 2016-05-26 13:50:04 [item 20964#52380]
            Please refer to thought 20937  
            Pellick notwithstanding – it’ll be nice when comments can be moved as well. It is interesting that this showed up recently on Facebook after I wrote my own version of the train metaphor:
            thumbs up (from Peter Ralston)
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 14:37:03 [item 20964#52400]
            Seth 2016-05-26 14:21:47 [item 20964#52394]
            for me on aspect of mark’s “train metaphor” holds where thoughts are habitually connected to each other or even externally … for example: every time i take a shit i think of laying down … every time i think of an avocado, i think of an avocado sandwich … etc, to much more elaborate trains of thought.  and then too such trains interact to construct new ones, with may or may not take hold … if i think of an avacado while taking a shit, i might just think of eating a avocado sandwich in bed laugh
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:27:53 [item 20964#52397]
            Actually, Seth somewhere PR in that quote in section 8 of consciousness he describes what you are saying about habitual connections.  I on the other hand was speaking about such stuff in the mind what is begging for attention to follow & connect it verbally to yet another train and/or have a conversation. 
            thumbs up
            Seth 2016-05-26 14:34:49 [item 20964#52398]
            ahh yes thumbs up… i get a lot of those … things that hint of a new connection or discovery … something noticed that tells me it is connected to something that is just beyond the horizon of the context of things in my mind at the moment.   i expect it is there, but i can’t put my finger on it.   this thought itself was just such a provocation. 
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:36:06 [item 20964#52399]
            👍
            some just sentence fragments, words, pictures, sounds  …. i.e. mind-garbage.surprise
            May 25, 2016 by Seth
            modeling the sauce after the classic betty crocker recipe.


            The meatballs themselves were spot on … i used 2 duck eggs from healthy horizons family farm down the street, breadcrumbs made from drying my favorite bread, and a healthy amount of dried sage from the farmstand, plus some onions and salt and ground pepper.   I thought they were spot on. 

            I think the Betty Crocker sauce recipe makes the meatballs too sweet … next time try using honey or a  lot less sugar in proportion.   Good though … denises liked them. 
            by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-25 09:10:11 thought 20963
            2 comment threads
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 09:40:26 [item 20963#52360]
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-26 09:21:21 [item 20963#52356]
            thumbs up What part do you suppose the duck versus chicken eggs played in the over all dish? 
            Seth 2016-05-26 09:37:54 [item 20963#52359]
            not much difference between duck and chicken eggs.   and whatever difference there is would have gotten baked away.   i used duck because that is all Kristen has at the farm.
            👍
            Seth 2016-05-26 12:15:17 [item 20963#52373]

            and here they are again over some noodles from the renton farmers market last year. 

            i redid the sauce, now less sweet and more savary with sage and honey.  … still the dish was too sweet.
            by Seth in group politics — 2016-05-24 16:39:29 thought 20962
            no comments
            May 24, 2016 by Seth


            We need motility between TD domains. 
            by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-24 14:24:47 thought 20961
            no comments
            May 24, 2016 by Seth

             

            me dead in the woods …


            see if your GPS will find my bucket before it rots.


            zoom is in google docs selfie directory.   unfortunately apparently the phone didn't transmit the geo coordinates … so lots of luck finding my rotting corpse … hint, it will not be where i usually go into the woods.
            by Seth in group seth — 2016-05-23 12:09:02, changed 2016-05-24 13:17:36 thought 20955
            2 comment threads
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-23 13:12:15 [item 20955#52312]
            If you are dead how did you blog this shit?  … don’t answer (ha ha)laughing
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-24 14:37:26 [item 20955#52353]
            2D selfie, eh?
            May 24, 2016 by Seth
            There are several things that make thinking domains a poor choice for people to actually commit to use …
            1.  the cursor in the RTE sometimes jumps around unpredictably … i am studying this with the presumption that it has something to do with the spell checker which has a popup that is also irrelivant to a user.  This kind of computer mischief is acceptable to early alpha users like myself,  but others expect and deserve more reliable tools.  
            2. the chat windows pop up distracting from focus on every new browser instance even though there was no chat dialogue instigated by the user. 
            3. there is no practical control provided to the owner of a thinking domain – currently it is up to the whims of an absent developer.  new said differently in this comment: http://www.fastblogit.com/item/20934#52159
            4. there is no cooperation in setting up a structure where other developers can continue to improve  the tool.
            5. the sharing to and from a thinking domain is retarded relative to other tools already available.
            6. comments need to be redesigned … see “Designing better comments” 
              • no need for duplicate action gadgets
              • name and date of posting should be the same for each comments in the thread – ie should always appear directly above the posting
              • the action gadgets actually appear within the posting body – they sholud appear on a separate line – almost certainly at bottom line of the thread isolated
            7. chat boxes that pop up every time a new window is opened.   these are fine in pre-alpha, but now should only pop up when there is a mutual  intent to use them … whether to know what someone else is doing, or to engage in mutual live conversation.
            8. get search engines like google to index only our permalinks

             
            by Seth in group fbi — 2016-04-28 10:31:55, changed 2016-05-24 11:04:36 thought 20865
            12 comment threads
            nathan 2016-05-19 09:04:37 [item 20865#52160]
            nathan 2016-05-12 12:38:23 [item 20865#51974]
            Written as a litany of what is not wanted. All is possible. Needs a rewrite as a story about what is wanted and it will happen.  

             
            nathan 2016-05-19 08:48:14 [item 20865#52156]
            Found this again finally today. I will read it when it is rewritten in a way that it is actionable in the verses.  Think back on all the times you had a complaint list to work from, and the other times you had a list of exciting things to do. Which happened with ease and flow? Which with effort and struggle? It is possible to build a house with a rock and nails, but using the right tool to drive a nail makes for an easier, more successful, and more enjoyable experience.  
            Seth 2016-05-19 08:58:25 [item 20865#52158]
            the list of holes is the list of holes … does not need to be rewritten. 

            what i will do is start designing solutions starting with “[title comment redesign]”. 
            👍
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-19 10:21:17 [item 20865#52173]
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-19 09:06:08 [item 20865#52161]
            Strange story – when I was building Common Logic Inc. as a company I also took the Communications Course from LEC & had to stand up & articulate what I wanted for the company.  Over & over in that dialog I tried to explain that I wanted something different from the ordinary corporate life of the day (which has gone in worse directions sense then). The point was that I needed to create something new as totally positive rather than just the opposite of something negative existing now. Finally, I articulated it as the means & the ends as well will be true, beautiful & good for all of our endeavors at Common Logic.  I remember bringing that back to the board meeting – some still preferred to haggle. laughing
            Seth 2016-05-19 09:32:57 [item 20865#52166]
            maybe there is no difference in regards to truth between ends and means laughing
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-19 09:43:10 [item 20865#52168]
            & maybe the statement has nothing to do with truth!   
            WOW! Wikipedia can come up with an interesting article on

            Consequentialism

             just by typing in “the ends justifies the means” yessmugthumbs up

            Consequentialism is the class of normative ethical theories holding that the consequences of one's conduct are the ultimate basis for any judgment about the rightness or wrongness of that conduct. Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right act (or omission from acting) is one that will produce a good outcome, or consequence. In an extreme form, the idea of consequentialism is commonly encapsulated in the English saying, "the end justifies the means",[1] meaning that if a goal is morally important enough, any method of achieving it is acceptable.[2]

            I changed it a bit cool Of course you folks have declared the end to the RWG so this must be moot.
            Seth 2016-05-19 10:17:03 [item 20865#52172]
            we do have other thoughts specifically about this, so maybe better to move this discussion there.   maybe move the whole thread.  ← a thingey we need to be able to easily do here. 

            i think separately judging means & consequences would be like judging the trough of a wave as bad and its crest as good ← me, i judge that would not be a good judgment.
            Go ahead – you got the fork!
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-19 10:52:15 [item 20865#52175]
            Seth 2016-05-19 10:45:59 [item 20865#52174]
            it is fairly easy to move threads even now with copy paste.  That one above and this one  should probably go somewhere in the already existing room tag ends justifies means … either in a new common thought … or one focused by you … or one focused by me.  but me, i am a peace with judging my swimming in relationship to what happens (both inside and outside me) … i am not so very sure that i am focused on separating the troughs in myself and my environment from the crests, rather i see them over time as the same identical process.  ← since you appear to see it differently, perhaps that thought  would better be focused by you. 

            strangely enough this comment belongs as a continuation of the thread that you apparently own but closed above.  ← so please consider it as such.
            OK – that’s what it is. smug
            Seth 2016-05-21 17:04:45 [item 20865#52248]
            Seth 2016-05-21 15:31:34 [item 20865#52233]
            (2) hmmm … thinking out loud.   well facebook has the ability to do that … and inevitably as this becomes use by more an more people we will need some defense mechanisms that people can deploy on thoughts that they own.   i had to delete a cartoon that mark posted on my “Bozos Discovery” this morning … it was just off topic and if responded to would have totally distracted anyone from the essence of that thought.  other than that his contribution was welcome even though it was provocative.   i said that to say i would not want to totally exclude him from contributing to that thought should he have something for it.   so, outside of the permissions that we already have i cannot think at the moment of any that would be an improvement.  

            For example you apparently don't want mark contributing to this particular thought in group fbi to which he is a member.   i suppose we could have a feature that locked a person out of commenting on a partiular thought … but that seems totally chiggy.  your tactick above of just telling him to fuck off might work … but i have tried, time and again, prescribing etiquite to mark and he just revels in doing the opposit. 

            so i don't know … people will be this way ... not something that we can change … and the more people we have here the more this will come up.  come up with a brillinat solution if you can smug
            nathan 2016-05-21 15:36:17 [item 20865#52234]
            #2 is a joke … and designed to get Mark to get his shit in shape. So, NC here.
            👍
            nathan 2016-05-23 10:14:28 [item 20865#52299]
            nathan 2016-05-21 14:59:43 [item 20865#52229]
            Mark. Stick your head back up your ass and stay off this subject. And if you are considering responding. Fuck off!

            Seth. We’ll work on the chat thing. That is good and needs to be right. The rest has nothing to do with us other than slightly related things you may find bits and pieces of below.

            Some really needed things.
            1. Ability to tag someone to direct them to a posting. Facebook has this. It is clear this was needed while I visited here every day. Now that I can’t, this space is almost useless without the ability to direct something to a person.
            2. Ability to channel a dissociative entity such as Mark into a gutter and keep him there. Just kidding! (or not).  
            3. Some really well thought out wizard configuration and management tools. But they need really well thinking out.  
            4. Even easier ability to spawn a new site.
            5. The ability for other developers to add plugins is way better developed and even documented than you think. Any true javascript developer will be thrilled by what already exists. But I would love to develop and smooth it further.  

            Have fun twisting your brains with this drive by love drop! Love you both and see you again soon! I am excited!  
            Seth 2016-05-21 15:15:15 [item 20865#52230]
            (1) well yes i can see the ability bring a specific post, or even a specific comment, to a persons attention … put that in their notifications (from person A to person B) is neeed … and sure it probably is best done in the chat app.  yes.    For example there are many things that i have said, in many different thought and comments which i woul have deerly wanted you to notice … but that is not the way this works … people will pay attention to only the things in their chosen context.  other people provoking them in a specific direction should certainly be possible … er, as long as it can be filtered according to the choices of the listener. 
            nathan 2016-05-21 15:16:45 [item 20865#52231]
            I didn’t mean to put the ability to tag a person in the chat app. The best way is just like FB. To tag someone in the text.  
            Seth 2016-05-21 17:04:32 [item 20865#52247]
            👍
            Seth 2016-05-23 05:34:12 [item 20865#52270]
            yet if you think about it, chat is the only facility here where information flows from specific person A to specific person B in real time.  So that for a person to be notified of such in their chat window seems just the perfect place for it to happen.   Why introduce a new facility to do that which is happening already. 

            [notify nathan] ← so because i tagged you something like this,  means that this comment (or a reference directly to this thread) appears in the chat box which is from me to you. 
            The FB way is well known and understood and works really smooth. The news should be a drop down feed just like on FB and with personalized notifications sorting to the top. Why need to look more than one place for the things that interest you?

            I would be in favor of simply implementing an alternative news feed as a dropdown and leaving the exiting one for those who like that style. Seems like a simple and well contained addition.
            Seth 2016-05-24 11:45:39 [item 20865#52344]
            nathan 2016-05-23 10:25:21 [item 20865#52300]
            1. Chat rework fixing remaining issues carried over from original plugin ~ 14 hrs
            2. Add @person tagging like FB has ~ 6 hrs
            3. Add alternative news dropdown ~ 2 hrs

            Now, what else is needed to monitize TD’s? Clearly things in the area of wizard configuration and TD proliferation, but exactly what?

             
            Seth 2016-05-23 10:38:52 [item 20865#52301]
            well i think the “monitozation” (survival) of TD’s is mostly a social matter … very little of it is technical.   however the technology needs to be at least as good as that which is already easily available.  above i have listed the places where that is not the case.  #4 however is part technical and part social. 
            nathan 2016-05-23 10:43:11 [item 20865#52302]
            Well #4 is actually in good shape. Not perhaps for your own javascript skills, but for average javascript developers both the doc I have in place and the ease with which plugins can be added that can do most anything is equal to or exceeds the majority of extensible software out there. I use lots of extensible software, and have in this project, and how they work is similar or worse than what we have.
            Seth 2016-05-23 10:50:42 [item 20865#52303]
            well i expect that technically it may well be in good shape.   but the fact that development is not being shared proves that this is primarily a social matter.   in fact the only other developer here, exclusive of you yourself, demonstrably has no instructions in how to affect the development … and all inquiries into same have been ignored by you (see “<private>” for example)  ← again a social matter. 
            nathan 2016-05-24 11:16:37 [item 20865#52342]
            Don’t think I have ignored anything I have actually seen. Of course, that is my biggest need here, the ability for you to tag me when something is for me so I don’t have to read through 30 days of backlog to see if my name was mentioned sometime, somewhere.  
            well i’m totally with you on notifying people to bring things to their attention.   i started doing it after your mention … search for “[notify” .    another think that is needed is for the new news to actually go back in history as far as one need to go, probably by paging … currently, even thought it says you can go back a year, you can only go back X number of items.  
            Seth 2016-05-24 12:01:01 [item 20865#52347]
            moved here from where it would not be remembered
             
            nathan 2016-05-24 10:57:44 [item 20957#52338]
            As far as how and where things are organized … that’s not really my area but the owner of the domains area.  I have organized all the API stuff under group graph api. Clearly the other “developer related” stuff you mention should not be in group admin because the administrators of a domain are rarely developers and stuff at that level would confuse them and get them in serious trouble.

            There is developer stuff in tiggerandhobbs and in unit tests and in library, some of it only available to high level people or in back rooms. 
            well i can see a group just for developer tools as separate from the group for administrators.   but the same cooperation and evolution applies now to two groups.  it should propogate and update and evolve.   thing is we don’t want to fragment this unnecessarily … more groups to propogate and control just gets in our way. 

            so let’s say we have the following to propogate … thinking quite out loud ...
            1. administrators
            2. developers
            3. documentation
            things in places like  tiggerandhobbs and unit tests wold need to be moved into one of those to get manifested to propagate and evolve.

            seems to me that library would be under developers … but it could be a separate group.
             
            Seth 2016-05-24 12:05:36 [item 20865#52348]
            nathan 2016-05-24 10:28:31 [item 20957#52331]
            However, that would have to be done in the “approved script”. The argument to plugin cannot be a script on another domain or your right back in the boat of anyone being able to run any code they want anywhere the thought is displayed. There is always that extra stub to keep things safe. No system I know of allows general users to put <script> tags in displayed content. That is always reserved for owners of the larger content base and developers.
            Seth 2016-05-24 10:32:32 [item 20957#52334]
            ok so that is clear.    But where are these scripts to be put?  And what kind of access is provided to them … for example there might be a scipt that only special people wan put in their thoughts and comments, but others do not have access to address them.
            nathan 2016-05-24 10:34:56 [item 20957#52335]
            Well, you and I pretty well covered all of that in prior communications. I realize you won’t remember all that, but interestingly the gist of it is out there in thoughts. Just needs to be coalesced into some common doc somehow.  
            Seth 2016-05-24 10:50:07 [item 20957#52336]
            one time you provided some scripting directories and even some tools for an administrator to access and maintain them.  however when i went to look for that facility, i could not find it.   What happened to it?  Point is we need to build the administrators group so that it does provide the tools necessary for a domain to maintain and configure itself quite independent of itinerant developers … and those tools need to propagated to new TDs with provisions for them to evolve with the system.  The tools and the doc should be tagged so that anybody can find or remember them.   This scripting access is just one of those features.
             
            Seth 2016-05-24 10:59:26 [item 20865#52339]
            nathan Yes. That is exactly my item 20865#52229 # 3
            Seth 2016-05-24 11:00:55 [item 20865#52340]
            yessmug

            which brings up the almost urgent need to move trains.
            nathan 2016-05-24 11:12:23 [item 20865#52341]
            Yea, I guess you mean move this conversation to somewhere. That is always the challenge and even more so here in TD’s. I can never figure out where to put stuff. It’s just a big pile file here.  
            Seth 2016-05-24 11:39:25 [item 20865#52343]
            well specifically i meant the ability to move trains from one thought to another just like we can move thoughts from one group to another.   see the redesign of comments which incidentally you were tagged in. 

            different people are going to focus and organize and remember things differently.   i almost never loose or forget stuff that i have represented here and tagged and organized … but  i notice that you do … perhaps because your focus and organization is more internal to yourself rather than being represented in the plane of the thoughts here at  fbi themselves.  Obviously we need to evolve in directions that enhance both ways of thinking here … and not sacrifice one in favor of the other. 
            nathan 2016-05-24 11:46:41 [item 20865#52345]
            Yes. I can’t effectively use the external tagging system you have here. It does not fit my mental model. I have tried using it many times but at best the tagging detoriates into a useless jumble.

            What I would use is tags in text if they had intellisense auto fill. Person tags like @seth and hash tags like #abouttagging and of course, bamtags. If I could put # and start typing and a list of already used tags popped up to chose from that could work … and of course tag rooms for all of those.
            hmmm … tagging in text might work that way … that is pretty much the way twitter works, except there you don’t get the suggest list.   A suggest list would be an innovation i think … but it might be problematic in scaling. 

            you also need to consider maintenance … revising, editing, deleting … that is not just something that you can depreciate.   sometimes tags need to be maintain even when one does not have access to editing the content of a thought … we have always had the ability to tag other people’s thought.  

            you can still have the suggest list and keep all the other features of tagging by keeping them separate from the body of the thought.
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-24 13:10:52 [item 20865#52351]
            Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-24 13:09:20 [item 20865#52350]
            FYI, Whatever algorithm Google uses for it’s search works best for me.  I can even forget a word & usually within 3 or 4 searches find a word that gets me there.  For example I had forgotten the word dystopia the other day – I knew such a word existed to describe some kinds of post-apocalyptic societies & found the word easily. Our current general search is not useful for me.  Tags work best for me as well. The rules about special characters due to your regex frustrate some of my searches.
            I suspect some kind of a google site search might be better than the general one provided now.
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 14:42:37 [item 20865#52403]
            nathan 2016-05-26 13:53:36 [item 20865#52382]
            How many times must we explain why a google site search is not something to do here Mark?

            However, I have offered several times to do a google like site search for you if you put some nickel's in the bank.  Once you even fully agreed to that, then renigged … but the offer is still open to honorable requests.  
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 13:56:52 [item 20865#52383]
            Did not ever agree to put nickels in any bank.  Google is much better regardless of whether YOU can do it or not. Apparently the Steiner Elib does a great job of both. http://www.rsarchive.org/Search.php smug
            nathan 2016-05-26 14:03:54 [item 20865#52385]
            Yes, you did Mark. If you are not honorable, then you are not someone to work with. Thanks anyway.

            The Steiner Elib is static content site. Go read up on where to use google searches and where not to. Thanks.
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:07:30 [item 20865#52386]
            Use your magic search & find exactly where I said I would do that or retain the dishonor for yourself! thumbs down
            nathan 2016-05-26 14:18:06 [item 20865#52393]
            Honor does not require proof … it comes from the heart.  
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:23:59 [item 20865#52395]
            Seth 2016-05-26 14:39:28 [item 20865#52401]
            which brings to mind that we need to get google to start indexing thinking domains correctly.  need to find some way to get them only to index permalinks. 
            👍
            nathan 2016-05-26 14:43:06 [item 20865#52405]
            Too bad I can’t #goodstuff this.
            Mark de LA of group mark 2016-05-26 16:38:17 [item 20865#52408]
            nathan 2016-05-26 13:53:36 [item 20865#52382]
            How many times must we explain why a google site search is not something to do here Mark?

            However, I have offered several times to do a google like site search for you if you put some nickel's in the bank.  Once you even fully agreed to that, then renigged … but the offer is still open to honorable requests.  
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 13:56:52 [item 20865#52383]
            Did not ever agree to put nickels in any bank.  Google is much better regardless of whether YOU can do it or not. Apparently the Steiner Elib does a great job of both. http://www.rsarchive.org/Search.php smug
            nathan 2016-05-26 14:03:54 [item 20865#52385]
            Yes, you did Mark. If you are not honorable, then you are not someone to work with. Thanks anyway.

            The Steiner Elib is static content site. Go read up on where to use google searches and where not to. Thanks.
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:07:30 [item 20865#52386]
            Use your magic search & find exactly where I said I would do that or retain the dishonor for yourself! thumbs down
            nathan 2016-05-26 14:18:06 [item 20865#52393]
            Honor does not require proof … it comes from the heart.  
            Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:23:59 [item 20865#52395]
            Seth 2016-05-26 14:39:28 [item 20865#52401]
            which brings to mind that we need to get google to start indexing thinking domains correctly.  need to find some way to get them only to index permalinks. 
            nathan 2016-05-26 14:42:39 [item 20865#52404]
            Good stuff. Of course, I suspect that as with all good stuff in these here parts it will be lost in the pile soon enough.  
            Seth 2016-05-26 15:11:54 [item 20865#52407]
            i added it to the list above, #8
            👍
            May 24, 2016 by Seth
            Note Facebook has converged on the same dialog structure that we have going now in td … which is a thought followed sequentially by trains by posting time,  which trains are themselves sequences of comments decending by time. 

            G+ seems to have only one train, but designates who a comment is responded to.

            Twitter might have a different model.

            Reddit and Slashdot and W3C forums have nested threading giving each comment a url within the thread even with the ability to embed a deep nest at another website.

            I think that the facebook model and the one we have converged on here is simple yet quite adequate.  There are plenty of mechanisms to diverge in dialogue from and nest a conversation by references to other dialogues outside of a specific train of thought. 

            However our current method of constructing trains by including all of the prior comments within the content or the last comment creates more problems than it solves. 

            Instead we can create the structure we have now, and the same one used by facebook,  by adding a train number to the comment record.  The train then can be constructed by a simple SQL query, with no need to mark delete the prior comments within the train.   By doing so we will essentially design out the possibility of a fork,  allow for editing (or deleting) of prior comments, allow for rights to be controlled by each comment rather than the last person to comment on a thread.   In short it will provide easy solutions for almost all of the problems we have been having with comments.

            Trains having an identity will also facilitate the need to move them to other thoughts.


            to be continued …  focused comments encouraged … [notify nathan, mark]
            by Seth in group fbi — 2016-05-24 08:30:34 thought 20958
            1 comment thread
            Seth 2016-05-26 15:08:03 [item 20958#52406]
            nathan 2016-05-26 14:41:30 [item 20958#52402]
            Yep. That’s what I wanted to do all along. Doing it right is to do it with an atomized stream. Then the page does not need to reaload every time something is added or changed. That’s how FB and most others do it.  
            great we appear to be on the same page technically.   shaping the project is now more of a social issue.  unfortunately economically things change and i can no longer balance a developer’s effort with money.  we are essentially on a fixed income here with scant little to spare.  i look at thinking domains now more like a garden … what soil is necessary for it to flourish and catch seeds … or what things happen in the garden which tend to squelch that which is already gowning or would grow.