global tag rooms
August 28, 2015 by Seth

Originally provoked by this story: Donald Trump Just Stopped Being Funny


source: conclusion of about article in rolling stones

" People are tired of rules and tired of having to pay lip service to decorum. They want to stop having to watch what they say and think and just get "crazy," as Thomas Friedman would put it.

Trump's campaign is giving people permission to do just that. It's hard to say this word in conjunction with such a sexually unappealing person, but his message is a powerful aphrodisiac. Fuck everything, fuck everyone. Fuck immigrants and fuck their filthy lice-ridden kids. And fuck you if you don't like me saying so.

Those of us who think polls and primaries and debates are any match for that are pretty naive. America has been trending stupid for a long time. Now the stupid wants out of its cage, and Trump is urging it on. There are a lot of ways this can go wrong, no matter who wins in 2016."


What is this vibration, this spirit, that is so appealing to so many Americans?

Should we really give it the rains of our destiny?


For the purpose of my inquiry here, i am in no was opposing or supporting Trump's vibration .... rather, whatever it is good or bad, positive or negative ... i just want to know of its actual character.  For example this vibration is strong and confident.  It is hard to deny that.  Seems to me that we are mostly feeling Trump's personal ego.  Is he also projecting the ego of the of the country?  Is he also projecting your part of the ego of the country?  If so, what is the character of that part?  If not, how does that part make you feel?

Incidentally this is not a partisan fight here.  Any talk of one side as opposed to the other is evidence of not hearing the message contained in this item. 
  1. leadership
by Seth in group seth — 2015-08-22 10:50:23, changed 2015-08-28 12:07:45 thought 18717
January 11, 2013 by Mark de Los Angeles
A look of at the nature of Tribes, in a TED talk, from one of the Co-authors of:

The Three Laws of Performance: Rewriting the Future of Your Organization and Your Life

In a humorous & interesting way he points to the HOW of culture arriving at solutions & leadership within the 5 stages of tribes to which we all belong in one or another.



  1. leadership
by Mark de Los Angeles in group mark — 2013-01-11 11:23:26, changed 2013-01-11 12:02:01 thought 16380
no comments
October 24, 2012 by Mark de Los Angeles
Whether you are the captain of a ship or a spacecraft you are responsible for everything that happens aboard the vessel. You are the one person whose example & commands everyone else must follow. If your commands are vague, if your instructions are garbled or non-existent, if your people fail to follow them, if they fail to communicate to you of dangers or situations which would endanger the ship - it is still your responsibility. Your identity is that ship or spacecraft. You must think for the entire crew through your staff & your example & command with your word.
How can the president of the United States be president if he is not a leader with such precepts?
  1. leadership
by Mark de Los Angeles in group mark — 2012-10-24 00:40:44 thought 16254
5 comment threads
Mark de Los Angeles of group mark 2012-10-24 08:15:27 [item 16254#26417]
seth 2012-10-24 04:30:10 item 16254
This is a childish ideal that doesn't scale to the United States of America ... never has, and never will.  Note that where leadership does work according to this ideal ... like for example a ship at sea ... the leader has total control and authority of command and discipline ... that is not the situation that obtains for the president of the United States.  It is a good thing that it does not, because i would certainly not want to live in such a totalitarian state.   Strange that you of all people would tout such an ideal.
      I knew you would dislike this @Seth. Nevertheless, I -have both military & shipboard experience, as a leader & have the better real life experience of how this works over your limited imagination. Insulting the message, or the messenger never lead to a better understanding of anything & more likely leads back to ignorance! Is this worth explaining? - probably not. I will do it anyway.
      I described the same ideals as are also captured in those fictional creations such as the Startrek series, movies & even in some places in Starwars & quite a few other dramas.  He who leads has to rise to a higher level of identity, consciousness & morality for leadership must also be an example to inspire & model for those who are being lead. If you are a rake - your people will say to themselves this is the example we can follow, etc. If you are given a leadership role of a company, a family, a military unit or even a department of government - extending all the way up to the presidency of the United States you had better be inspired by good things, teach such to your subordinates & show them how to act & be the best example of what that is - otherwise corruption & degradation is waiting for opportunities.  If you are a spendthrift don't expect your subordinates to be thrifty. If you are a partier don't expect your subordinates to put their noses to the grindstone while you are not there with them. If you are a philanderer don't expect your subordinates to conduct themselves with chastity, ... etc. 
P.S. I know we don't have a dictatorship, nor would I want one.  Leadership works by example & inspiration, vision & consciousness expansion. Where those are missing dissolution & anarchy reign.

Mark de Los Angeles of group mark 2012-10-24 09:09:46 [item 16254#26421]
seth 2012-10-24 08:47:00 item 16254
ok.  Certainly leading by example and inspiration if the mark of a good leader. 

Obama is not the best leader in the world ... not, perhaps of the ilk of a Jefferson or a Lincoln. 

But in judging his leadership we should also consider what is happening to tear down and degrade his leading ... those are extreme ... perhaps you cannot see them because your own ego is so close to that ... but, trust me, it is extreme ... here, perhaps was one of the worst ... but American politics is riddled with this kind of shit ... yours among it.

So your Star-Trek ideology notwithstanding ... leadership is a relationship between a leader and those being lead.  Sans the latter the former does not exist. 

It simply cannot be manifested unilaterally.
I had a nice, non-partisan discussion going here & as predicted @Seth took it back to the political & partisan. You should know that I have already voted & hence you can't affect my vote.  Yeah, everything on the Earth is in a relationship between everything else.  You didn't specify what kind of relationship.  For leadership it need not be willing at the start.  Like Huckleberry Finn & the whitewashing of the fence, there is an example of someone following because the way looks enticing. There are plenty of negative examples as well. The best positive example is Jesus Christ who has been dead for 2000 years & still has millions of followers.
Choose your own or not.
Mark de Los Angeles of group mark 2012-10-24 09:54:49 [item 16254#26423]
seth 2012-10-24 09:43:14 item 16254
source: Mark above
I had a nice, non-partisan discussion going here & as predicted @Seth took it back to the political & partisan.
Please, give me a break ... this item is directly connected to your partisan agenda.  If you can deny that, how can i possible believe anything that you might say?
Learn to remove your brown grommet necklace from around your head & you will be able to breathe calmer & think more clearly. Otherwise,

these arent the droids you are looking for



Mark de Los Angeles of group mark 2012-10-24 10:19:31 [item 16254#26427]
seth 2012-10-24 10:10:40 item 16254
M 2012-10-24 10:01:16 item 16254
seth 2012-10-24 09:31:37 item 16254
Well to begin with i agree with you ... leadership is a skill ... example and inspiration are great parts of it .

source: Mark above
You didn't specify what kind of relationship.  For leadership it need not be willing at the start.
Well certainly we are talking about a person leading a group of people ... that is the relationship ... what more needs to be said.  The context can be a sergeant and the squad he is leading (something i have had a bit of experience) ... or the commander and chief of the armed services ... or the leader of the administration of our US government.  I really don't know what more needs to be specified.

Certainly a great leader might be able to dissolve some opposition to his leadership ... that is a given ... but leading people who are hell bent on rejecting your leadership is not a formula for a great leadership relationship.  Can you honestly deny that?
Yep, maybe the leader is the wrong one. Maybe he is the wrong example.  Maybe his Vision & his actions contradict each other, maybe he goes golfing & partying on the taxpayer's dime while calling for more taxes ... do I need to go on?  You started the politics. I had it generic. Your sargeant experience was in high school ROTC? My experience was in the Viet Nam war!


My experience in ROTC was the first time i learned that i was not a good leader.  I was the seargant of the best squad competition, and we lost ... i made mistakes ... after those i totally lost the respect of the squad.  What did you learn from your experiences in the Viet Nam war?
... Well, a lot of the stuff I wrote in this item & the comments which were generic draw from my navy experience.  I'm not going to argue about it. Life & death & making policy which will be followed is a bit different than that in the academic world as Obama has found out. Remove the economic incentives to power & we will get different kinds of leaders.  Subject the leaders to their own laws & you will get a different kind of dynamic a la tags threefoldness. The about box of this item takes an ontological look at leadership.

Mark de Los Angeles of group mark 2012-10-24 10:38:34 [item 16254#26426]
seth 2012-10-24 10:29:11 item 16254
i really was interested in a honest and candid answer to my question.
source: i ask again
What did you learn from your experiences in the Viet Nam war?
... not to prove anything ... but just to know you better.    I mean i did give you mine.

I already told you in the most general way. I had 6 years worth of experience. Thats as far as I will discuss it here. What I espouse here is what I got from my experience - not some pointy headed thought exercise or "sea lawyering".


June 15, 2012 by Mark de Los Angeles

A possibility is fulfilled by promises & requests .. & that as a matter of fact if you are a Martian looking at a leader I say that what would be there as a presence is Vision as a possibility of Being for Human Beings and unreasonable promises & requests as the~opening for the fulfillment or [ .. ] realization of that Vision coupled on the backside with compassion, whereby compassion I mean a profound sense of what people will need to bring forth in themselves to make good on the unreasonable promises & requests.
 
- Werner Erhard

When I was heavily into the seminar world I transcribed this piece on leadership from one of Werner's lectures I had on tape. I never met him. I will let this percolate for a while until untangling the Gordian Knot of it all.   BTW, for those who look Werner up in the link to Wikipedia the word est is also the Latin word for he, she, or it IS  - a zen kind of notion. I ran into the quote during triage of some old papers.

Quite a chunk full. LEC97 showed the process. Too bad it hasn't shown up in politics of today. It may be that the two are incompatible. It may be that absolute integrity is required & the leader-celebrity-TV personality style of politician we have these days can't muster integrity, eh? It may be that pandering for votes is incompatible with honoring thy word as thy self.


  1. leadership
by Mark de Los Angeles in group mark — 2006-05-24 09:56:51, changed 2012-06-15 08:25:13 thought 3615
1 comment thread
Mark de Los Angeles of group mark 2012-06-16 14:52:59 [item 3615#25471]
M 2012-06-16 14:48:41 item 3615
Here is a good little essay on Honor thy Word as Thyself:
 ... When a person constitutes their very identity as the commitment "I honor my word as myself" the universe in ways both visible and unknown supplies all manner of assistance in allowing one's word to bring forth possibilities and opportunities for action which would not otherwise be possible.
Honoring your word as yourself creates a world of possibilities born of declaration, commitment and accountability. For those who live their life based on integrity, responsibility affords the freedom of never having to look beyond oneself or God for the quality of one's life. Responsibility at its essence is always honoring the declaration "I am cause in the matter concerning who I am being, right here right now."
...
& just for fun there is an as yet to be fleshed out group of myths associated with Integrity itself below:

The Ten Biggest Myths of Integrity

Myth #1: Integrity is an obsolete, old-fashioned concept.

Myth #2: Moral and ethical codes of conduct are only for religious fanatics.

Myth #3: Integrity is a not based on any universal principles, rather it depends on the whims of each person in their own situation.

Myth #4: Honoring your word as yourself puts unnecessary limitations on personal freedom.

Myth #5: Being true to your emotions and personal desires in any given moment is more empowering than honoring what you said you would do.

Myth #6: Freedom is being free to choose which commitments to keep and not to keep in any given moment depending on your feelings.

Myth #7: Its possible to build character without having to make and keep commitments.

Myth #8: Integrity is not about listening to and following your conscience.

Myth #9: In a world of greed and selfishness, its not necessary to get hung up on keeping your word.

Myth #10: Honest and decent people are doormats for everyone else to walk all over.


October 21, 2008 by Mark de Los Angeles
To recap we are all connected &/or related by being on the Earth. Furthermore we are connected by six degrees of separation from one another if you believe in social scientists & game shows. I am referring not to these but more <-> cause & effect kinds of associations. One should look at what the effects are of one's behavior & speech to assess what you are causing for whether it is good.  In the case of politics a leader must continually look at what he is leading his group towards & away from. While the individuals of a group are ultimately responsible for their own actions, I think it can be said that there is a cause/effect chain proceeding from the leadership to the group & down to individuals. Why else would a politician, leader or even a president wish to become such unless he/she/it wants to cause something to happen?  Hence I am looking at the results of a candidate & his acolytes, followers, campaign workers & results accomplished in all arenas & even the groups he/she/it has been part of and worked inside to see if the whole picture is good. It is valid to judge the leader by what his followers do! Words do mean something & action from those words start a cause/effect chain for which the ends can be judged.
Currently I am not finding much good at all in election politics. Currently I don't like much of the direction their words have caused the political, economic & social river to flow.
by Mark de Los Angeles in group mark — 2008-10-15 08:54:09, changed 2008-10-21 12:33:23 thought 10647
October 18, 2005 by Mark de Los Angeles
"A leader is best when people barely know that he exists,
less good when they obey and acclaim him, worse when they
fear and despise him. Fail to honor people and they fail
to honor you. But of a good leader, when his work is done,
his aim fulfilled, they will say, 'We did this ourselves.'"
~ Lao-Tzu

  1. leadership
by Mark de Los Angeles in group politics — 2005-10-18 10:10:14 thought 1561
1 comment thread
Seth 2005-10-18 10:15:36 [item 1561#5411]
so true