logic?

The distinction between logic & conversation or discourse is mostly lost here.

Comments


Mark de LA says
MR 2016-04-05 08:39:01 [item 20748#50811]

Now it would indeed be very amazing if, under ordinary conditions, someone who had heretofore been sitting quietly in his chair were to feel himself suddenly beginning to fly up into the air through the chimney! This would certainly be very amazing, and yet if such a thing occurs in a dream, we take part in it without feeling any wonder at all. And we experience even more extraordinary things in dreams at which we are not at all astonished, although they cannot in any way be connected with the occurrences of daily life. In waking-life we are already astonished if someone is able to leap very high into the air, yet in dreams we fly and are not in the least surprised. Thus we are confronted by the fact that, while we are awake, we wonder at things which we have not experienced before, whereas in dreams we do not wonder at all. - See more at: http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19120203p01.html#sthash.ck1zSWLU.dpuf
 

In this RS lecture on Conscience the quite familiar world of dreams with illogical connections & behavior is distinguished from the waking world.   Wake Up! folks … try the volcano experiment & see if you are still astral tripping! cool
nathan 2016-04-05 08:42:09 [item 20748#50813]
The distinction between dreams and what you call awake is very different in this time than it was in Steiner’s time. He was speaking to a different audience with different needs. It is not now to wake up, or to sleep, but rather to integrate all experiences.
Nice general statement seems full of zombification – half awake & half asleep – some 60’s resurrection without the aid of hallucinogens .laughing … just doing our thing & what we wanted.

Mark de LA says
nathan 2016-04-05 08:19:58 [item 20748#50808]
That is because logic is not a core principal of the multiverse. It is a local distinction. There are verses where things operate in a manner that would be completely illogical to you. It’s not really so much that logic itself is mutable, but rather that logic can only describe closed systems and requires assumptions. Change the assumptions, or open the system, and the logic that was operating no longer applies.

You are accustomed to living and thinking in a verse where particular assumptions and beliefs have been stable for a long time. It seems chaotic for you to think outside of those logical systems. It is not a fault with you and not a fault with logic. It is simply that logic is a localized tool and the verses are beginning to merge and the systems you have been thinking in are getting softer and softer edges. 
Seth 2016-04-05 08:35:04 [item 20748#50810]
You describe your  multiverses  as if  experience flows from what you believe … but that also “describes a systems which requires assumptions”.  beliefs are assumptions.  There is nothing “closed” about a system where you can pick your assumptions (beliefs) just as you will.   logic is the machine which articulates your assumptions.  change your beliefs and you change your experience ← sound familiar?
nathan 2016-04-05 08:39:26 [item 20748#50812]
No. It doesn’t. Not sure what you are saying. Sure, change your beliefs and you change your experience. Don’t see how that is related to logic and conversation though.
Seth 2016-04-05 09:16:26 [item 20748#50820]
well you just now repeated it yourself,  “change your beliefs and you change your experience” … which, incidentally i also believe is true … i’ve seen it happen way too many times to deny it.  

all i am pointing out is that what we call “logic” is a mechanism which does precisely that.  in logic you input axioms (beliefs) and then the machine takes over and generates the output implications … in this context here to be thought of as experience.  

human conversation is quit different.     maybe that was what mark was getting at … i don’t know. 
 
nathan 2016-04-05 09:25:32 [item 20748#50826]
Yes. That’s what I mean when I say logic applies to closed systems.

Mark says “here” and I take that to mean the specific conversations happening on these kinds of topics at FBI.
Seth 2016-04-05 09:29:59 [item 20748#50828]
thing is we humans use logic machines … and in that usage we choose the axioms … so that system of “human usage” + “logic machine” is not closed. 
… just in this group http://www.fastblogit.com/48 – other discussions are other discussionscool

Seth says
nathan 2016-04-05 09:09:38 [item 20748#50819]

Nice general statement seems full of zombification – half awake & half asleep – some 60’s resurrection without the aid of hallucinogens .laughing … just doing our thing & what we wanted.


I didn’t say anything like that Mark. That’s your story, not mine.
MR 2016-04-05 09:17:36 [item 20748#50821]
Yep, the usual zombie response  – not ME! laughing
nathan 2016-04-05 09:19:44 [item 20748#50822]
I respond very articulately and consistently in nearly all cases. You seem to be the one invoking zombies. I talk about actual experience and things we can all do and things I do, not zombies. Unspecific put downs and slanders are your territory.
MR 2016-04-05 09:25:17 [item 20748#50825]
Yep – samo-samo … maybe learn what slander is someday . What I do is more like knock that chip off your shoulder  now & then laughing
nathan 2016-04-05 09:26:28 [item 20748#50827]
Yep. You put it there, then knock it off. It’s a thing.
Seth 2016-04-05 09:33:17 [item 20748#50830]
i’m just curious → … where is this thread going? … which of the commandments is it breaking ← not just saying
nathan 2016-04-05 09:53:26 [item 20748#50834]
I’m just curious, how is that your business? What is exciting about asking that to you?
because it is a precise example of why it is best to avoid the fallacies listed here http://www.fastblogit.com/item/20735 ← me i just love examples … actual happenings … and this one i could not help myself highlight. 

Mark de LA says
nathan 2016-04-05 09:09:38 [item 20748#50819]

Nice general statement seems full of zombification – half awake & half asleep – some 60’s resurrection without the aid of hallucinogens .laughing … just doing our thing & what we wanted.


I didn’t say anything like that Mark. That’s your story, not mine.
MR 2016-04-05 09:17:36 [item 20748#50821]
Yep, the usual zombie response  – not ME! laughing
nathan 2016-04-05 09:19:44 [item 20748#50822]
I respond very articulately and consistently in nearly all cases. You seem to be the one invoking zombies. I talk about actual experience and things we can all do and things I do, not zombies. Unspecific put downs and slanders are your territory.
MR 2016-04-05 09:25:17 [item 20748#50825]
Yep – samo-samo … maybe learn what slander is someday . What I do is more like knock that chip off your shoulder  now & then laughing
nathan 2016-04-05 09:26:28 [item 20748#50827]
Yep. You put it there, then knock it off. It’s a thing.
Seth 2016-04-05 09:33:17 [item 20748#50830]
i’m just curious → … where is this thread going? … which of the commandments is it breaking ← not just saying
nathan 2016-04-05 09:53:26 [item 20748#50834]
I’m just curious, how is that your business? What is exciting about asking that to you?
MR 2016-04-05 10:00:47 [item 20748#50838]
I suspect that sooner or later a self-created world begins to disintegrate no matter how much excitement it brings & then the owner of it has to hide within his own creation & shield the inner-workings of his machinery.
… just saying pondering
&
said! laughing
nathan 2016-04-05 10:16:12 [item 20748#50844]
Well, it doesn’t. If it did, it would have disintegrated long ago so clearly your logic has a faulty premise somewhere.

It is very easy to see however, how co-creation between all of us would keep the game alive and thriving. It’s easy to see how that is why the one has separated into many instead of remaining the one.
… As long as it agrees with your own wallaby. tuit

Mark de LA says
nathan 2016-04-05 10:31:35 [item 20748#50847]
Aw, come on. Play a bit. Go on an adventure outside your box for a day.   
np.  I am!