What i mean when i say "I"

About: "i am!"

You might be surprised how very little “experience accompanied by sensory qualia” i get when i say “I am” or even “I exist”.  I get a more distinct and direct qualia when I “do x”, “feel x” or “think x”.  So apparently these things  vary even between brothers of the same human family.   When i say “i”, i refer to myself,  … to all of the experiences and feelings i am having, have had, and the deeds I have expressed  in the world. 

I am  not necessarily my representations like “selfie pictures” … those are like reflections in a mirror … when i say “I”, i don’t  refer to them.  I suppose, were i famous, that image would have a life of its own.  So yes i dink with that image of me in the world … move it around a bit … even thought it is not me.   That image of me in the world is called “my persona”.   Amost everybody knows me only by that “persona”, especially strangers who don’t really know me at all. 

The feelings i get by interacting (or not interacting) with other people are me too.  They are, after all my feelings, i will not disavow them … they are a part of me.  I make them up totally myself, and take full credit and responsibility for them.   Those feeling are quite unique to each individual that i know.   But then there are the strangers, who know me not, and care even less … i make up feelings about them too.   I like to make my feeling of others be inspired by my sensual observations  of them, and not be about myself or my agenda ← i am not always successful in that regard blush

Sometimes i do feel myself being up or down in some interaction with others … especially when they are putting me down and themselves up laugh,  or when I am  pushing my agenda on them, and they  having none of it.  When that happens, i like to find a way to avoid it becoming amplified and perpetuated.  I don’t think that is my life or theirs either ← but that may be just my opinion. 

seth

Tags

  1. i
  2. ego
  3. persona
  4. thought 20752

Comments


Mark de LA says
There is an interesting NLP/zen tool one can use when encountering an unwanted RWG or other exchange of negativity – quite simple – (possibly of Michael Hadley origin) – anyway:
Thank the other for the “gift” they have presented & then pantomime receiving it & throwing it over your shoulder & move on. One could be very surprised how much shit one can get rid of that way. thumbs uplaughing

Seth says
nathan 2016-04-07 06:16:13 [item 20758#50937]
If you continue to examine further you will discover that others don’t put you down or lift you up, that is all you. The others are there, and the stimulus is there and is not you, but the direction of movement and all feelings associated with it is all you and only you.  
Seth 2016-04-07 06:28:49 [item 20758#50938]
well it is absolutely true that the feeling i get when someone acts against me are absolutely all of my own creation.  I said that quite clearly above.  

But just as i act in the world, others do too.   If somebody stabs me, that is there doing, not mine … it is all on them.   I cannot take on that responsibility and still acknowledge others sovereign action against the world.   That is there freedom, i will not imagine it away.   I think you refer to that as their “stimulus” and we agree that it is “not me”. 

If I  interpret it  as a “put down” … well, certainly, that is me making that interpretation … telling that story.   Some happenings are more ambiguous and open to radical interpretations than  others. 
nathan 2016-04-07 07:08:52 [item 20758#50939]
It really is more than that. Someone can stab you, but you also have to create that. If you don’t, you won’t experience it. You are a co participant in everything you experience and nothing can happen in your experience that you do not give permission to. You may not feel that way, you may not understand it right now, but it is true and you can lean towards the understanding until you do experience that way.
Seth 2016-04-07 07:52:26 [item 20758#50949]
Yep that is your story … not mine.   If something happens that affects me,  there is no separate choice or action that i must do to experience it … except be present at the place, time, or context in which it  happens.  Now how my being reacts to that happening is all my doing … but not the happening itself.

Forget about a negative thing.  What about a gift?  … a favor, something done for another.   Me, when i give a gift or do a favor (or not) … that is my deed.  The person getting the gift can receive it or not,  but they get no choice (or will) whether i give it.   That situation is necessarily symmetric … if you do me a favor, that is your deed and action … i need not additionally create it myself.      

I know you have been pushing that story on me for a long time now … presuming i suppose that it is wise.  i have learned to laugh about your presumption  laugh.   But I am still curious.  Not about the story … that will never obtain over here …  but about you.   What do you personally get out of pushing that story on me?  Honestly, what is in it for you?  Is it some kind of guru-hood? 
MR 2016-04-07 07:58:29 [item 20758#50950]
Presumably the you in the above comment is N. smug
nathan 2016-04-07 08:05:04 [item 20758#50955]
Have you never given an unwanted gift that was ill received?
Have you never given a gift that was not noticed at all?
Giving of a gift is an excellent way to see this principle in action. It’s not as emotionally charged as violence, so you can easier see how your part is not always an accepted part in another’s reality.
Seth 2016-04-07 08:11:14 [item 20758#50957]
Yes to all of those.   Like i said, how a person receives my gift is their doing not mine.  visa versa obviously.  The deed of giving happens without the deed of receiving.  The one in the one, the other in the other.  There need be no confusion. 
nathan 2016-04-07 08:16:28 [item 20758#50959]
Yes. And the deed of giving can happen without any experience of receiving. For both to happen, both others must create the respective experience, often called co-creating. This is true at all levels, but it is easier to begin to see it in relation to gift giving than in relation to violence.  
? … okay … that hangs together quite well for me too smug

Mark de LA says
MR 2016-04-07 08:01:28 [item 20758#50952]
BTW according to PR & my own experience the qualia expands with further contemplation & crusts over like a volcano as distance from the primary event is encountered. 
Seth 2016-04-07 08:16:38 [item 20758#50960]
okay.   with me such a qualia (any qualia actually) echoes and eventually crusts or gets forgotten and/or no longer echoes and ceases to be important.   The qualia of which i presume  you speak gets dampened in me quite out of the gate.  Don’t ask me why … is just the way i am. 
My quoted remark in thought 20752 could be made more clear by phrasing it:

One speaker can identify with groups & others in terms of leadership, responsibility, art, etc.. but the peculiarity of the “I am” seems strengthened by the insistence of the “I am not ……!”


Where the …… is anything another says or identifies with.  The uniqueness quest of the self (or selfie).  
 


Mark de LA says
nathan 2016-04-07 06:16:13 [item 20758#50937]
If you continue to examine further you will discover that others don’t put you down or lift you up, that is all you. The others are there, and the stimulus is there and is not you, but the direction of movement and all feelings associated with it is all you and only you.  
Seth 2016-04-07 06:28:49 [item 20758#50938]
well it is absolutely true that the feeling i get when someone acts against me are absolutely all of my own creation.  I said that quite clearly above.  

But just as i act in the world, others do too.   If somebody stabs me, that is there doing, not mine … it is all on them.   I cannot take on that responsibility and still acknowledge others sovereign action against the world.   That is there freedom, i will not imagine it away.   I think you refer to that as their “stimulus” and we agree that it is “not me”. 

If I  interpret it  as a “put down” … well, certainly, that is me making that interpretation … telling that story.   Some happenings are more ambiguous and open to radical interpretations than  others. 
nathan 2016-04-07 07:08:52 [item 20758#50939]
It really is more than that. Someone can stab you, but you also have to create that. If you don’t, you won’t experience it. You are a co participant in everything you experience and nothing can happen in your experience that you do not give permission to. You may not feel that way, you may not understand it right now, but it is true and you can lean towards the understanding until you do experience that way.
Seth 2016-04-07 07:52:26 [item 20758#50949]
Yep that is your story … not mine.   If something happens that affects me,  there is no separate choice or action that i must do to experience it … except be present at the place, time, or context in which it  happens.  Now how my being reacts to that happening is all my doing … but not the happening itself.

Forget about a negative thing.  What about a gift?  … a favor, something done for another.   Me, when i give a gift or do a favor (or not) … that is my deed.  The person getting the gift can receive it or not,  but they get no choice (or will) whether i give it.   That situation is necessarily symmetric … if you do me a favor, that is your deed and action … i need not additionally create it myself.      

I know you have been pushing that story on me for a long time now … presuming i suppose that it is wise.  i have learned to laugh about your presumption  laugh.   But I am still curious.  Not about the story … that will never obtain over here …  but about you.   What do you personally get out of pushing that story on me?  Honestly, what is in it for you?  Is it some kind of guru-hood? 
MR 2016-04-07 07:58:29 [item 20758#50950]
Presumably the you in the above comment is N. smug
Seth 2016-04-07 08:04:13 [item 20758#50954]
in the last paragraph, yes.  In the first two paragraphs it could refer to anyone.    Mark, you  push a different story on me … i just talked about that in your thought which provoked this one.
MR 2016-04-07 08:06:41 [item 20758#50956]
Interesting pejorative & use of the word “push”.  Is what you “push” on me like your jousting & crusade also pushing? Who knows? Who cares? pondering
Seth 2016-04-07 08:28:38 [item 20758#50963]
yep there is a push and a recieve in interactions … surprise,  surprise surprise … or hopefully, no surprise, no surprise laughing.    … and no there is no “pejoritive” necessarily involved from my perspective.   I breath out and i breath in … i give and i recieve … it could be said that makes the world go around. 
Yeah! thumbs up I was writing a country song in my head yesterday called “In & Out” ..
Up & down
left & right
back & forth
 … she goes loving it & hating it
to & fro
push & pull
… in & out she goes …. (my baby) etc. smuglaughing

 

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