An intersting dialouge about duality

especially this train …
Abstraction doesn’t do you any good with a percept – learn what it is. Perceiving & perception is what comes through the senses not what your mind makes up about it & even not what you abstract about  it.thumbs down
Seth 2016-05-18 07:33:18 [item 20922#52118]
well what you actually said (apart from your judgement of it) is true.   so what?  it is beside the point.

people can see an elephant from different points of view … those views of the elephant are not the elephant. 
so what indeed … the points of view only captured/perceived part of an elephant …. & if all of them spoke only Chinese there would be no “elephant” there at all . laughing
Seth 2016-05-18 07:47:26 [item 20922#52120]
laughinglaughing indeed …. maybe there would be choy  ← sorry i don’t know the ming for “elephant”.

and strangely enought surprise an excellent example of the map not being the territory thumbs up.    one way to falsly eliminate that problem is to just declare, with dint of your authority, that the map IS the territory.   hmmm … i wonder who is doing that?


  1. duality
  2. thought 20922
  3. draft


Seth says
incidentally i really do not think that one can grock the essence of language without also accepting the duality that is its essential characteristic.

Mark de LA says
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-18 09:59:08 [item 20934#52131]
Actually it was about Language & was returned to “draft” status to rest a while since it deviated far & wide from the original topic. My final comment was:
Not me! maybe kosum laughing
Seth 2016-05-18 10:06:29 [item 20934#52133]
yet neither are the ming for “elephant”.

anyway your original intention of where you wanted that thought to go, does not diminish the value of the discussion we had relative to duality which you yourself introduced into the thought ... for example the bite of the train i posted here. 

it is also interesting to note that the feature/bug left by nathan in the code allowed this gem to be broght to our attention dispite your attempt to put it to sleep.   that being that making a thought into a draft does not hide it from the view of those outside the group … rather it just takes it out of circulation.   so, is that actually a feature, or a bug?

Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-18 10:12:07 [item 20934#52135]
That sounds like a bug – what good is such a feature? Everybody except the people in the group that are interested in the first place can see it? thumbs down
Seth 2016-05-18 10:19:07 [item 20934#52136]
except that it was already syndicated and circulated for public comment.   if you wanted it private, then you should have made it private not just turned it into a draft.  so that was your mistake, not a bug in the system.

thing is, it would not have mattered, i would have found the train i wanted to remain public anyway with my special powers. 

maybe your conception that you can own and control all trains of thought that happen on thoughts that you author is something that you should just give up.   that is just not the way the ball bounces in thinking domains. 
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-18 10:21:47 [item 20934#52137]
Well when the wizzardbecomes an asshole who gives a shit anymore… enjoy the glow … enjoy the flow! thumbs down
Seth 2016-05-18 10:44:44 [item 20934#52140]
Well there is cause effect taking place here … your hiding my thinking from public view, caused the effect that i went looking for how to reverse what you did.  

it is an example of karma really … as already quoted by you yourself this very morning …

(2462) CONSCIOUSNESS is awareness of the part which self takes in production of a judgment either as cause or effect - cause when I act on another, effect when I act on myself, when my hand touches my head, e.g., "I am a cause - active consciousness;  passive consciousness - I am an effect".  Believe a cause exists without an effect or vice versa if you like to be mystifyied. 

Or you just turned into an unwiped ass all by yourself …. enjoy the smudge!thumbs down

Mark de LA says
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-18 11:15:48 [item 20934#52143]
I wonder how future customers, if any, would view your behavior or future behavior.  That also could be described with the word karma!
Seth 2016-05-19 08:00:19 [item 20934#52151]
well if the thinking domains software was perfectly designed in relationship to what we want to encourage to happen here, then no special powers would have been necessary.   and if you had the same respect for another’s representations as you do for your own, it would not have been necessary either.   i look at it as a learning process to help understand how best to make thinking domains work.  if this thing survives to serve future customers, i’m thinking that they will thank me … i seriously doubt that they will side with your hiding of your shit and being oblivious to the fact that it hid my stuff as well.
Well, your already-always RWG & argumentation – opposition needed a breathing space – at least for me. People in the real world take refuge from bullying & even horse shit when it overflows.  BTW there is no coherent document specifying all of the behavior on your quads.  Most of whatever about them is done in a bunch of twitterings between you & N.  Even Facebook & G+ have their privacy controls. 

Seth says
What kind of coherence re our quads are you looking for?  If you can clearly tell us what that coherence might be, i expect it might emerge.  Nathan does not seem to see the value of using a good quads browser to achieve domain flexibility in a rapidly changing world.  Or at least if he does, he doesn’t want to focus on manifesting it.  So we are left with no practical domain flexibility – rather with just hard code written from the authority and perspective of the person writing the code.  That is the problem in search of a solution from my perspective.

Seth says
Seth 2016-05-19 09:03:32 [item 20934#52159]
What kind of coherence re our quads are you looking for?  If you can clearly tell us what that coherence might be, i expect it might emerge.
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-19 09:12:44 [item 20934#52162]
When I tested & performed QA on software I used cause-effect graphing which was essentially a network graph which expressed if this then this or this and this or that yields this result etc. Maybe there are clues here & maybe not. Anyway for customers I would presume there is a coherent set of thoughts which express all of the behavior including the fact that draft mode still can be seen by others if that is the case unless the item is also marked private. etc.
Seth 2016-05-19 09:26:42 [item 20934#52164]
if you look at draft as removing a thought from circulation, it actually works perfectly.  it does not make the item private.  if you want it private, that is a separate setting.   Like you i thought this was a bug when i discovered others drafts by searching backward in the permalinks … but those permalinks are not in circulation.  it is a tickelish call,  i actually like it this way, but then i always tend to side with more public transparency and less secrecy. 
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-19 09:35:55 [item 20934#52167]
Yeah, my basic thought on this is spell it out in documentation versus making it a process of discovery. smug
yep i agree, would be nice to have all of that written down in group doc

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