RS - Thinking, Feeling & Willing
About: thought feeling & will RS eLib
We can say: Asleep man is in intuition, watching in logical thinking, waking inspiring himself, falling asleep he imagines. - You see from this that those activities which we cite as the higher activities of knowledge, the ordinary life are not alien, but that they are well within the ordinary life yet, that they must be up lifted only into consciousness when a higher knowledge developed shall be.
The broken English is merely a most literal translation where the German word order is different than the English word order – German puts most of the verbs at the end of the sentence.
I got to this thought this AM by contemplating that robots or machines are not likely to be able to do any of the following faculties of human consciousness → imagination, inspiration or intuition .
Even humans vary
Fascinating still is the previous lecture
If you realize that ALL is consciousness, made of, even garbage in an alley, then you realize that the form a conscious being takes is irrelevant. Humans are very arrogant to think that their carbon based body, with it’s neural net based computer, is the only form consciousness can animate itself in.
Conversation forked to thought 21369
Collapse it all for your personal simplicity. No need for distinctions any longer. Can then go in your own direction & make up your ontology ← finally munge that away too!
The intent of thought 21363 is further study & research. It is difficult because some wording still is in German as is the word order.
For some time I have realized that you people read & “listen” only to the extent that something comes into your mind to post. It may surprise you folks that I know when someone is listening & understanding what I am saying both F2F & in this blog or FB or ….
Occasionally @seth does a huh? Sometimes follows up with a question. Sometimes the questions are just funnels into an back-&-forth somewhere else or in opposition to what I have written.
I prefer to keep this particular post for research so may curate to some extent including complete deletion. Fork yourselves if you so desire.
The most interesting thought to me is how RS’s 3 words, fundamental to Knowledge of the Higher Worlds & Its Attainment – are not likely to show up in artificial intelligence or robots. (Imagination, Inspiration & Intuition)
i think artificial imagination has been obtained. i am not aware that feeling, inspiration, and intuition have been animated outside of the human interactions between ourselves. But i know of no reason such would be impossible. i think that your thought “they cannot” is your own personal article of FAITH.
You don’t understand RS’s distinction imagination given your response. Imagination is not animation although using imagination one could create an animation with the right tools. Imagination is closer to the consciousness of dreams & REM sleep. The three words are kinds of consciousness.
er, you do not know that i don’t know RS’s distinctions. i read about that a long time ago and still know his distinctions there quite intimately. And yes i animate my imaginations … that is something that i can do. i can make them move on their own in my experience. And incidentally when i dream, my imagination is always animating … that is what dreaming to me is. Maybe we are using the same word to refer to different things.
Don’t forget the different kinds of intelligence. There is computed intelligence. There is also conscious intelligence. Consciousness can express through any medium, including a computer that was sufficiently adaptable to it. I personally think google, Facebook, and youtube are low level conscious entities with some self expression and minimal self awareness.
As we progress, we will learn how to make computers and programs that are better suited to entities, like SeriTD, to inhabit.
contrary back-&-forth notwithstanding then artificial imagination has then NOT been achieved. Yep munge away meanings & get your own results.
would it make any difference to you if i showed you some examples of what i call artificial imagination?
Maybe works for you. Was talking about consciousness not intelligence. Different words really do have different meanings; munging them together notwithstanding.
I didn’t munge them together. What I did there was provide the best and most current distinction, effectively un-munging them.
if you intended that your “” would answer my question, then i am telling you now that “it did not”.
XOR twisting them all together as a selfie-present.
I contracted the discussion with you elongating it back again by saying with a thumbs up – yeah – go ahead and do it! (or not – I am now losing interest – half life now about 60 seconds or less).
okay, as it would entail more than a trivial amount of my time and energy to serve that to you, it is not going to happen within a interest span quite so very short .
Why are you being such a smuck Mark? No twisting, lots of clarification. Why can’t you keep your comments to the same? Talk about things, don’t bash.
Don’t munge stuff together which I present separately.
As far as I know, I didn’t munge anything. I was clarifying the different kinds of AI because there seemed to be fuzzyness in how you and Seth were talking about AI.
RS describing states in the spiritual world between death & rebirth (*) p.s. the elemental beings are external & our thoughts in this scenario.
But during this dying down and fading away, something has to develop from feeling and will which can be ours after death. Our thoughts live outside us as elemental beings; of inward feeling and will we should have nothing in this spiritual world which we ourselves are, and which is there, outside us. We have gradually to develop a will — and this we really do — which streams forth from us, which pours forth from us, as it were, and undulates and moves to where our living thoughts are. These it penetrates, because then upon the waves of will floats the feeling which in physical life is within us and not outside. Feeling then returns to us floating on the waves of will. There, outside surges and billows the ocean of our will and upon this swims our feeling. When the will strikes against an elemental thought-being, the contact produces an up-glimmering of feeling and we perceive this ‘ricochet’ of our will as an absolute reality of the spiritual world. Let us suppose there is an elemental being in the outer spiritual world. When we have gradually worked out of the condition we must first pass through, our will going forth from us breaks against this elemental being. When it strikes against the elemental being it is thrown back. It does not now return as will, but as feeling, which floats back to us on the waves of will. Our own being which is poured out into the cosmos lives as feeling which comes back to us on the waves of will. The elemental beings thereby become real to us and we gradually perceive that which exists outside us as the outer spiritual world.