#Nowbies

A nowbie is a person who gets hung up in the age old β€œit is always NOW” paradox.
Chief of the current crop is Eckert Tolle

Tags

  1. Nowbies
  2. NOWbie
  3. NOWbieApologist
  4. OneTrickPony
  5. change
  6. time
  7. AlreadyAlwaysArguing
  8. hmmm
  9. MakeShitUp
  10. IsThatSo
  11. OTOH

Comments


Mark de LA says
 #Nowbies are closer to being & IS! yet usually get caught up without a future or past & can’t digest how the present is a product of the other 2 not separate.

Si says
You have often accused me of judging Peter Ralston without deeply studying him … yet that seems to be exactly how you judge Eckhart Tolle. No one who has truly studied what Tolle says and what he lives would say such things as you do above. There may be #NOWbie’s who are as you describe, but even if so Tollie is not one of them.

Mark de LA says
How so? other than I wrote.  RS tells you how the past,present & future integrate together as well as GW. I can also integrate the work of Peter Ralston of Cheng Hsin into the mix. I got the paradox before I was eight & I can go any way because I am not a #NOWbieApologist ← #OneTrickPony
 null 

Seth says
i tend to agree with mark here.   i much prefer the naive and natural understanding of relative subjective time … and do not see how if humans adopt a new one it would profit us. 

The unmutable edge of time is just change.  In fact we could we could almost say “time IS change”.  Without time there can be no change … without change there can be no experience of time passing.  The one creates the other and the other creates the one.

This diagram represents an aspect of #change. 

There is a state, as something happens, a new state emerges … then it happens again.  The new states are woven in a fabric which could be described as the vibration of consequence.  We experience (become aware) of that fabric … “There is no problem is calling the fabric the flow of time”.

tag #time 

Si says
Because you write “gets hung up in the age old “it is always NOW” paradox”.

As I said, there may be such a thing. And yet, if you truly have studied Tolle, you would know through your studies that he is not hung up in a paradox but is living a very forward flowing, full, and fulfilling life that includes past and future. Knowing we are always “now” and knowing that we generate all past and future from “now” instead of passing through them as we suppose does not exclude past and future, and that is what Tolle teaches and lives. Your #NOWbie’s may exist and may be stuck in a paradox of now, and Tolle is not their chief … Tolle is a well balanced human living in the now.

Mark de LA says
Annectdotal worship pellick indeed! nathan – did you ever meet Tolle, take a class?

Si says
Yes. The value in time is “change”, I agree.

The misunderstanding about time, that we can improve, is that change must be linear and serial. That is not a requirement, but only a convention humans have adopted in order to have particular kinds of experiences for a while. Expanding that simple linear and serialized model into a richer parallel and adaptive model is allowing some humans to have new and more interesting experiences … ones that humans have become ready for now, and many humans have been craving for a while now.   

For a long time, we only had serial computing. Now we have parallel computing and it can accomplish many things serial computing cannot. Same with perception of time.

Si says
I have not had that direct opportunity yet. I would love to take a Tolle workshop. In the mean time, I have studied his concepts and teachings in depth. For several years Shallon and I listened to his books on tape every day, and later TolleTubes. I listened until I found examples in my own life and began to work with them, and then listened more and applied the knowledge until I obtained the respective results. An in depth study and mastery of anything requires devotion and application of focus and desire.

Seth says
well there is a state … call it “before” … and there is a state …. call it “after”.  
If one is present to both states, 
the natural sequence is to experience the “before” state first,
and then immediately experience the “after” state.  
I am guessing  nathan would call that “linear”. 

Seems to me that if you experience that differently then you …
have just lost focus …
and/or are not taking responsibility for the change …
and/or are not really present to both states. 

i still say, there is no profit for us in reinventing a alternate way to experience this flow of the fabric.

Don’t forget it is not just you … there are others here having experiences  too …
allowing the natural sequence to match up our disparate experiences works like a charm.

Mark de LA says
I grasp time in moments projectively interlaced & related – not all one chunk.  Enjoy the cognitive dissonance you get by criticizing what you do not understand of what I say.

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
The subject recalls this quote from the Tai Shu:
Tai Shu commentary, P.1982 - #21,5 70-10-2-13-9-28 Tue (46.2 years ago last Christmas) 
"Note the present is always period of transition between the past & the future.  As we go forward in time we do meet the Gods who travel in the opposite direction.  The boundary exhibits the contours of our conscious being.  Like this, background of philosophy which is more than an idle theory or speculation, which necessarily must be fitted into our thoughts if we are to solve properly the problems arising in our daily lives.  Look around you & observe all the failures which must be counteracted by Divine intervention due to just this lack of philosophical & sound foundation among those who while in authority should be better equipped to know & mind their own business to lead!
IMHO, time travels infinitely fast between successive moments of NOW! (M.R.) - it will be a NOW when death arrives for each of us individually - make sure there are some great moments in between.

Then too some of RS’s lectures on the period between death & rebirth recall the transition from a space-based experience to a time based & otherwise. See this if you are interested.

Mark de LA says
& just for fun: Nagarjuna taught, "bereft of beginning, middle, and end," meaning that the world is free from creation, duration, and destruction. null

Seth says

Seth says
Well a world “bereft of beginning, middle, and end”… does not sound like a world i would choose to experience …
were it even match with what i call “expeience” null.  

Was Nagarjuna recommending it?

Mark de LA says
I gave you a link – you figure it out if you ever get close to Buddhahood – let me know. null 

Seth says
Well do you, mark, personally  choose to experience a world free of creation, duration, and destruction?

please inform !

Mark de LA says
Dukka  ← suffering may be includes #AlreadyAlwaysArguing ← as well. 
Sounds a bit like perfection – maybe the God-view of existence, xor maybe not.
For me a “perfect piece-of-ass” would be a good start …. then null

Seth says
sounds like boredom to me.

Si says
Yes, well perhaps you don’t have the same multitasking multi-attention experiences that are commonly found in today’s youth, but not exclusively there. Humans have the capacity to have multiple attention experiences at the same time. My daughter Katrina is exceptional at this. Psychologists have been diagnosing this as everything from ADHD to bi-polar to schizophrenia. The simple fact is, Katrina can type at over 90 words per minute on the computer while having conversation with someone in the same room and be eating and enjoying a candy bar all at the same time. It’s when she is forced to channel all those different attention focuses into one singular serial experience, at school or at work, that she breaks down and can’t function and they put her on drugs.

You may only focus your attention one place and sequentially. It is not the only way to experience reality, as many are discovering and demonstrating in quite a variety of ways.

Si says
IMHO, time travels infinitely fast between successive moments of NOW! (M.R.)”

Yep.  

Si says
Yes seth, you do seem quite happy in that one box.  

Or maybe not … if you really were happy in there, why did you create us to keep showing you alternatives? #hmmm 

Mark de LA says
Talk about yourself – less bullshit ensues.null

Seth says
Sorry null,  i did not create you.  
-AND-
i love null you showing me alternatives. 

Si says
I have many parallel and multidimensional experiences. I talk about them here all the time. You especially mark, just shit on them without any constructive interaction. I thought this more conventional example of someone I know well, Katrina, would be more useful and common for you to understand … apparently not.

Mark de LA says
The power to create also may imply the power to destroy . Interesting dichotomy . null

Mark de LA says
still you are talking about your daughter & she is not part of the conversation nor can she giver her opinion of what you said … gossip at best.

Si says
The same can be said for your characterization of Tolle in the original thought above … and that was my first and only point to start off with. Thanks for clarifying it and giving a personal demonstration from your perspective.  

Si says
Well, relating to experience only in a serialized manner, where every experience is cause and effect only, sounds boring to me. In fact, it did bore me until I began to question it as the only available way to experience reality and eventually discovered that it is not. Now, I am never board.   

Mark de LA says
Well, Si, it may be that you believe your own shit but, it may surprise you that I don’t a lot of the time. Tolle has evidence in his writings & is a public figure. So far your daughter isn’t & doesn’t. 

Si says
#LOL … I am sure Katrina will be happy to learn that she doesn’t exist (to you) because she “does not have evidence as a public figure”.

… strange world you live in there … null

Mark de LA says
See Si you #MakeShitUp which I did not say. Fuck You!

Si says
That’s the only interpretation I can get out of what you said. I tried to make it something other than just a drive by shitting. What you said above about Tolle is simply gossip. If you deeply study his life, or deeply study what he says through your own life experiences, then you will be in a postilion to talk about who he is and what he teaches … beyond gossip.

… same goes for time perception. Have some genuine multi-attention experiences of your own and become skilled in working with them … and then come back and talk about them.

Mark de LA says
That’s what a #NOWbieApologist would say! nullnull

Si says
Is that so? null
 
A beautiful girl in the village was pregnant. Her angry parents demanded to know who was the father. At first resistant to confess, the anxious and embarrassed girl finally pointed to Hakuin, the Zen master whom everyone previously revered for living such a pure life. When the outraged parents confronted Hakuin with their daughter’s accusation, he simply replied "Is that so?"
When the child was born, the parents brought it to the Hakuin, who now was viewed as a pariah by the whole village. They demanded that he take care of the child since it was his responsibility. "Is that so?" Hakuin said calmly as he accepted the child.
For many months he took very good care of the child until the daughter could no longer withstand the lie she had told. She confessed that the real father was a young man in the village whom she had tried to protect. The parents immediately went to Hakuin to see if he would return the baby. With profuse apologies they explained what had happened. "Is that so?" Hakuin said as he handed them the child.
- See more at: http://truecenterpublishing.com/zenstory/isthatso.html#sthash.wTRb1as0.dpuf 

#IsThatSo 

Seth says

Mark de LA says
KEWL!  The next time you pontificate, da , before spouting off ask yourself the question first:
#IsThatSo ? including your comment #Nowbies (comment 77657)null  You can say/ask that about anything like the young child usually asks why? endlessly.

Si says

Mark de LA says
#IsThatSo – corollaries for #NOWbieApologist s :
  • #IsThatSo as much as you think it is?
  • #IsThatSo now?
  • #IsThatSo as much as when you wrote/said it a while ago?
  • #IsThatSo but, could have it’s So..ness improved?
  • Aren’t you just lying about it for you selfie sake?
null
 

Si says
 #IsThatSo?

Mark de LA says
Zen story “maybe” is equally endless http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/zen.html null

Si says
#OTOH I have heard that recycling is good for the environment. null


Mark de LA says
Must be your monkey & your circus – not mine!null

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