Brainstorm: How to get a new post where you expect it to land when auto surfing groups?
The “new post” pen at the top of the page creates a post in the group you are currently logged in to. So when you can auto-surf groups with stored credentials it is not so obvious what group you are logged into. You might follow a link and surf your way into a group and then hit the river and then try and post a thought … it would go into that group you just traversed by following the link. Not cool right?
So what’s a better way? … and along with that, when should the group actually change automatically? What triggers it?
So what’s a better way? … and along with that, when should the group actually change automatically? What triggers it?
Tags
- where items go
- items
- auto surfing
Comments
Si says
Yes. If that is the model then it is basically saying that we no longer care what group you are in and you shouldn’t either. We will ask you specifically when it matters, like when you are creating a new post. Otherwise, the group you are in and all rights you glean from that are irrelevant and transparent.
This almost works perfectly. Where it doesn’t is when you encounter a group you cannot log into. Then there are choices, like being asked to log in if you can or just always treat you as a guest there.
Now the final thing, who are you commenting as? The group you logged into as it is now? Or as your roaming identity? Are you hip with doing away with people having a group pen name?
2015-12-28 14:23:04 [item 19413#39635]
So what about what group you are signed into? Should it switch as you read a post so that you have full group access rights to all posts you encounter? (except in the river and river tag room of course). Then you would always have the most complete user experience possible.
However, it also would be a wild ride. Some groups you would switch into because you have credentials, others you would not. It would be really hard to know what group you were in, if you need or want to that is, do you?
However, it also would be a wild ride. Some groups you would switch into because you have credentials, others you would not. It would be really hard to know what group you were in, if you need or want to that is, do you?
2015-12-28 14:28:14 [item 19413#39639]
could default to the last group they posted to (or authenticated to) … or sure if they are in another group, they probably want to post there if they click the pen …. in any case they can look at the screen and see where their post is going and change it as per their choice.
This almost works perfectly. Where it doesn’t is when you encounter a group you cannot log into. Then there are choices, like being asked to log in if you can or just always treat you as a guest there.
Now the final thing, who are you commenting as? The group you logged into as it is now? Or as your roaming identity? Are you hip with doing away with people having a group pen name?
Seth says
2015-12-28 14:46:25 [item 19413#39644]
You say, “ This almost works perfectly. Where it doesn’t is when you encounter a group you cannot log into. Then there are choices, like being asked to log in if you can or just always treat you as a guest there.”
hmmm … the current system lets a person browse (encounter) any group if they have been authenticated to the domain in any way. We don’t really have private groups here (yet) … just private items. Seems to me that the system does not know if you can or can not authenticate to that group … it is no mind reader. and yes, a guest is allowed to browse at will … no restrictions to joy sticking around.
so am just not sure of the consequences of your thinking on that matter
hmmm … the current system lets a person browse (encounter) any group if they have been authenticated to the domain in any way. We don’t really have private groups here (yet) … just private items. Seems to me that the system does not know if you can or can not authenticate to that group … it is no mind reader. and yes, a guest is allowed to browse at will … no restrictions to joy sticking around.
so am just not sure of the consequences of your thinking on that matter
2015-12-28 14:51:22 [item 19413#39646]
Not true. For instance, if you are not logged in you won’t be able to see private posts. That’s just the start from the current moment. Down the road we can now add infinite options to groups. That’s what the new group properties dialog is all about … which right now only has change password. So who knows what you might be missing if you could have logged in?
Now I am okay with leaving that up to the user to do on his own and not ask him. But who knows, other’s may rather be asked, at least once, so they can get the full skinney if they have access.
Now I am okay with leaving that up to the user to do on his own and not ask him. But who knows, other’s may rather be asked, at least once, so they can get the full skinney if they have access.
Si says
Yep. I am not sure either yet.
2015-12-28 14:50:03 [item 19413#39645]
You say, “ Now the final thing, who are you commenting as? The group you logged into as it is now? Or as your roaming identity? Are you hip with doing away with people having a group pen name?”
hmmm …. good question. maybe almost need the same kind of defaults and choice there as making a new item. i don’t know.
hmmm …. good question. maybe almost need the same kind of defaults and choice there as making a new item. i don’t know.
Seth says
2015-12-28 14:40:11 [item 19413#39643]
What do you mean, “the group you are in and all rights you glean from that are irrelevant and transparent” ? You still see private itemsl, or post a comment, or tag a post, or delete shit just only in accordance to the privileges that you have authenticated to in the group that you are effecting.
2015-12-28 14:57:40 [item 19413#39649]
No. I mean they are irrelevant to YOU. Obviously the system will still honor them. I’m saying with this model it’s like you don’t care anymore. You just browse as if it is all one big space and never know the why or how of what you are seeing … or more probably, not seeing. Or can do, or not do.
Seth says
2015-12-28 14:40:11 [item 19413#39643]
What do you mean, “the group you are in and all rights you glean from that are irrelevant and transparent” ? You still see private itemsl, or post a comment, or tag a post, or delete shit just only in accordance to the privileges that you have authenticated to in the group that you are effecting.
2015-12-28 14:57:40 [item 19413#39649]
No. I mean they are irrelevant to YOU. Obviously the system will still honor them. I’m saying with this model it’s like you don’t care anymore. You just browse as if it is all one big space and never know the why or how of what you are seeing … or more probably, not seeing. Or can do, or not do.
Seth says
well what you call “the roaming profile” is the profile of a group, not an individual … still … as far as i can see. though sure i understand that it can become whatever we make it to be.
So if the individual is roaming with his profile in hand, sure seems he has a name in it, mabe an advatar, and a hyperlink back to his blog. For me, that answers your first question.
I don’t know about (2) … a room is moderated by its owners … that is as far as my thinking can go now … got to start my shipping day now.
2015-12-28 15:16:37 [item 19413#39660]
Okay. Two open questions left to figure out.
- Who should one be posting as? Roaming profile user? Group pen name? Should group pen names be abolished?
- How can FBI be modeled after G+?
So if the individual is roaming with his profile in hand, sure seems he has a name in it, mabe an advatar, and a hyperlink back to his blog. For me, that answers your first question.
I don’t know about (2) … a room is moderated by its owners … that is as far as my thinking can go now … got to start my shipping day now.
Si says
Nope. I guess it still is not clear. The roaming profile is not a group, it is an individual. It is now and will always be an individual. That we leveraged a root author of a group as an individual login does not make the roaming profile of a group.
Nope. I guess it still is not clear. The roaming profile is not a group, it is an individual. It is now and will always be an individual. That we leveraged a root author of a group as an individual login does not make the roaming profile of a group.
Seth says
hmmm …. well good 
idea 
. If i know what you mean, i can easily give up “group pen names”.
i don’t use them anyway … i always put “seth” in the author box. Mark, however changes his pen name as if to express his focus in life at the moment. He can give that up, i am sure, especially if he gets to be an authentic single person here instead. Why complicate our lives … just be yourself … that’s what i always say. But … ok ok … i can’t speak for mark.
thing is, if “seth” is my personal identity, then the screen can still say seth@ai ….or seth@fbi … or seth@administrators ….. or just seth if i am “from” my own group with that name
….. er, but how if i have many groups would the system know which i wanted to be at the moment … i don’t know ...got to go to fedx
2015-12-28 14:59:34 [item 19413#39650]
Whatever happens it seems that it should be as simple as G+ which is easy to use & I never have to think about it. 
2015-12-28 15:03:11 [item 19413#39652]
Cool. Unfortunately I don’t know G+ … it’s useless. You and Seth and 2 other people are all that exist there.
2015-12-28 15:09:09 [item 19413#39656]
i never have a problem G+ either.
Howver their circles are a weirdness compared to other places … kind of a innovation … not sure it really took off. Circles are only local and subjective to the browser … nobody knows what circle you put somebody in. Groups are about the same … but i have heard about people getting pissed off by being kicked out of a group. I suppose that will happen anyplace.
Howver their circles are a weirdness compared to other places … kind of a innovation … not sure it really took off. Circles are only local and subjective to the browser … nobody knows what circle you put somebody in. Groups are about the same … but i have heard about people getting pissed off by being kicked out of a group. I suppose that will happen anyplace.
2015-12-28 15:10:37 [item 19413#39658]
So how does the G+ model fit here? Don’t assume I know anything about it, I don’t.
2015-12-28 15:15:16 [item 19413#39659]
i think in this context it is the same as Facebook.
like i said i think the G+ subjective circles which only the browser knows are infreuently used and we don’t need them yet. Facebook friends are public knowledge and they compose a person’s feed. Goobgle’s are private knowledge but have the same function as far as i can see … to select and compose what is our river here ...ie who’s posts end up in the river you will see. That is advanced shit from where we are now … something we will need though when our user base gets up to maybe … guessing now … 100.
like i said i think the G+ subjective circles which only the browser knows are infreuently used and we don’t need them yet. Facebook friends are public knowledge and they compose a person’s feed. Goobgle’s are private knowledge but have the same function as far as i can see … to select and compose what is our river here ...ie who’s posts end up in the river you will see. That is advanced shit from where we are now … something we will need though when our user base gets up to maybe … guessing now … 100.
2015-12-28 15:23:02 [item 19413#39661]
Yes. That is actually where I like the group model here. To me a group is a focus, and allows you to focus as well. It would be easy to filter news to a group while you are there. The auto login stuff we are considering actually subverts a group as a focus. IMHO the group login and pen name is a strength here, even though others have issue with having to switch groups a lot. I don’t do that. I focus for long periods of time and like the group boundary supporting that.
2015-12-28 16:47:16 [item 19413#39664]
I do not see “auto login – as you call it” subverting focus at all. Fact is people have multiple focuses … not just one … your usage here may be more of an exception than a rule. So you want to focus on just one group, you go to that group page … whether you are currently logged in or not …. or you may be more focused on a topic … perhaps you will go to a tag room … or maybe your focus is reaching out and seeing what is on other’s minds … well then go to the river. Generally when i go out on the larger web, i prefer that my individuality is what people know me by ... not the fact that i might be working for the speak to me catalog.
Filtering feeds is a real big topic … we will get into that when we have more than 3 individuals actively working here … i think we go now by our gut feelings about identity … roles in a group are also being covered here nicely.
Filtering feeds is a real big topic … we will get into that when we have more than 3 individuals actively working here … i think we go now by our gut feelings about identity … roles in a group are also being covered here nicely.
2015-12-28 17:19:40 [item 19413#39665]
Cool. Back. Have El Capitan installed on the Powerbook I traded my 27” iMac for, and Firefox installed
Now, some of that is untrue, but doesn’t matter at the moment. The main thing that matters is if you are prepared to drop group pen names or not. That seems to be the critical choice. The underlying software, and many display locations, have to be different accordingly. I don’t see that it will be easy to have one identity and group pen names. One identity and and one alias, like Facebook allows, yes. But not one for each group too … that is too difficult a model to work with. Either you keep the pen names and the identity is background only, like it is now, or the identity is foreground and you dump pen names. Mixing them is way beyond any software model I want to write.
Now, some of that is untrue, but doesn’t matter at the moment. The main thing that matters is if you are prepared to drop group pen names or not. That seems to be the critical choice. The underlying software, and many display locations, have to be different accordingly. I don’t see that it will be easy to have one identity and group pen names. One identity and and one alias, like Facebook allows, yes. But not one for each group too … that is too difficult a model to work with. Either you keep the pen names and the identity is background only, like it is now, or the identity is foreground and you dump pen names. Mixing them is way beyond any software model I want to write.
idea . If i know what you mean, i can easily give up “group pen names”.i don’t use them anyway … i always put “seth” in the author box. Mark, however changes his pen name as if to express his focus in life at the moment. He can give that up, i am sure, especially if he gets to be an authentic single person here instead. Why complicate our lives … just be yourself … that’s what i always say. But … ok ok … i can’t speak for mark.
thing is, if “seth” is my personal identity, then the screen can still say seth@ai ….or seth@fbi … or seth@administrators ….. or just seth if i am “from” my own group with that name
….. er, but how if i have many groups would the system know which i wanted to be at the moment … i don’t know ...got to go to fedx
Si says
2015-12-28 14:14:50 [item 19413#39631]
i think a simple pull down list (or radio button click list) of groups to which you have credentials should show on the item with the last one you posted to being chosen by default. with a newbie that should be just the group they originally got authenticated to.
2015-12-28 14:19:43 [item 19413#39633]
Okay. That is one way. Basically that is inserting an extra step in either the pre or post post process (I would choose pre) that chooses where the post goes. Itfit is unambiguous, i.e. you only ever visited one group logged in, then the step could not appear.
2015-12-28 14:23:47 [item 19413#39636]
i like pre too. but i am not so sure it needs to be a separate screen step (if that is what you are implying) … why cannot you let the person type their opus (having authenticated that it will go where the screen could show) and when they “save changes” you will already know where to put it.
2015-12-28 14:27:36 [item 19413#39638]
It needs to be an isolated step. If it is just part of the post editor, or the buttons on a page, people may skip it and only realize that too late. There needs to be no way a person can avoid choosing.
2015-12-28 14:30:54 [item 19413#39640]
well if there is always a default that is chosen automatically, then there is no way that can avoid choosing. that said, mistakes will be made … and if made these thingies are motility are they not?
2015-12-28 15:06:02 [item 19413#39655]
I would much rather have an easy to click through extra step than make a mistake where I post. That could be horrendous if I posted something unintended to the wrong place! I don’t want that to be up to whimsical default.
2015-12-28 15:10:08 [item 19413#39657]
2015-12-29 07:02:16 [item 19413#39672]
white on pink is barely readable ! ….. just saying.
2015-12-29 07:07:06 [item 19413#39673]
Not pink. That is a very solid shade of orange. You must have a really bad monitor! I did shade the text for better visibility on any monitor … but there you go … there are always the mismatchers in the world who attract physical stuff that supports their “not - thinking”.
2015-12-29 07:18:24 [item 19413#39676]
I knew someone would eventually haggle over the name of a color … whatever you call the color it is barely readable – maybe telephones display it differently but on a regular desktop … not so good.
2015-12-29 07:19:43 [item 19413#39677]
… btw as it is now the bar above is a sort of olive green & the white letters display OK
Mark de LA says
WOW! threats again!
2015-12-28 14:14:50 [item 19413#39631]
i think a simple pull down list (or radio button click list) of groups to which you have credentials should show on the item with the last one you posted to being chosen by default. with a newbie that should be just the group they originally got authenticated to.
2015-12-28 14:19:43 [item 19413#39633]
Okay. That is one way. Basically that is inserting an extra step in either the pre or post post process (I would choose pre) that chooses where the post goes. Itfit is unambiguous, i.e. you only ever visited one group logged in, then the step could not appear.
2015-12-28 14:23:47 [item 19413#39636]
i like pre too. but i am not so sure it needs to be a separate screen step (if that is what you are implying) … why cannot you let the person type their opus (having authenticated that it will go where the screen could show) and when they “save changes” you will already know where to put it.
2015-12-28 14:27:36 [item 19413#39638]
It needs to be an isolated step. If it is just part of the post editor, or the buttons on a page, people may skip it and only realize that too late. There needs to be no way a person can avoid choosing.
2015-12-28 14:30:54 [item 19413#39640]
well if there is always a default that is chosen automatically, then there is no way that can avoid choosing. that said, mistakes will be made … and if made these thingies are motility are they not?
2015-12-28 15:06:02 [item 19413#39655]
I would much rather have an easy to click through extra step than make a mistake where I post. That could be horrendous if I posted something unintended to the wrong place! I don’t want that to be up to whimsical default.
2015-12-28 15:10:08 [item 19413#39657]
2015-12-29 07:02:16 [item 19413#39672]
white on pink is barely readable ! ….. just saying.
2015-12-29 07:07:06 [item 19413#39673]
Not pink. That is a very solid shade of orange. You must have a really bad monitor! I did shade the text for better visibility on any monitor … but there you go … there are always the mismatchers in the world who attract physical stuff that supports their “not - thinking”.
2015-12-29 07:18:24 [item 19413#39676]
I knew someone would eventually haggle over the name of a color … whatever you call the color it is barely readable – maybe telephones display it differently but on a regular desktop … not so good.
2015-12-29 07:19:47 [item 19413#39678]
Your flirting with a self fuck Mark. And I guess you didn’t notice the color already changed?
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