Imprint for the day.

Just imprint them on your neural net dear Mark, by doing. The way of the child.  

p.s. Deleting things just makes them stronger.


  1. bull shit


Holmes says
To Mark,

I can giggle with that.
 But it’s only wording around the issue … the idea is sound and proper.
Throw out all dictionaries I say!
The world will become a better day!

Holmes says
Mark of group mark 2016-02-16 09:16:48 [item 19978#45676]
I am a human with a human brain & soul. Neural nets are human (mathematical-electronic)  inventions – not the other way around no matter who designs them laughing
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:21:09 [item 19978#45680]
artificial neural nets are modeled after the ones in human beings.   i am not quite seeing the grand distinction that you are drawing.
Arrrrg … he despoiled the beauty by threading!

Holmes says
Mark of group mark 2016-02-16 09:16:48 [item 19978#45676]
I am a human with a human brain & soul. Neural nets are human (mathematical-electronic)  inventions – not the other way around no matter who designs them laughing
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:21:09 [item 19978#45680]
artificial neural nets are modeled after the ones in human beings.   i am not quite seeing the grand distinction that you are drawing.
Mark of group mark 2016-02-16 09:23:03 [item 19978#45682]
the electronic model is missing something that the human has – just like you apparently did
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:25:46 [item 19978#45683]
well yes the internal human network is far superior and suprubly evolved compared to the “electronic” ones that have so far emerged.  still in all we can refer to it the same way.  can i not talk of a toy truck the same way i talk about a real one … the way nathan talked about imprinting?  … and any way nathan was not talking about electonic neural nets when he said what he said.
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:32:11 [item 19978#45685]
Tis true, Donatello spoke of the human child. We have no need to record and dictify and put pen to such things … our richness inside already far exceeds such. Put pen to the heart instead! Imprint for the need to absorb, tis the better way.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:37:55 [item 19978#45687]
yeah i like imprinting by doing too heartthumbs up … much better than reading about something and then following instructions.  things should be designed so that doc is not necessary and one learns it just by using it. 

i don’t think that is a good reason not to write doc.
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:44:12 [item 19978#45691]
Well, that’s another story I grek. This one tis about Mark. For in the rest of the story deleted is his beef. And beefy is the ego he doth sport his agreeable siding with.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:47:37 [item 19978#45694]
who was it said something like,  you can’t prick an ego without an ego prick?
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:51:31 [item 19978#45697]
We cannot cut off Mark’s food supply so readily. He must still feed to complete his indoctrination. His path is chosen, we can only but oblige. Give him what he begs for, the milk is always tainted, and soon he will wean himself.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:59:30 [item 19978#45701]
well thee are three quite different stories about that.   doesn’t appear to me that they are interacting in a useful way.  me, all i hear is static. 
Tis true Seth, not for you.

Holmes says
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 10:05:22 [item 19978#45704]
incidentally is this the essence of your thought ?

That learning by doing is better than learning by reading and then following instructions.   So having a website which is learned just by watching what happens when you click and imprinting that on one’s habits is far better than a website where you have to go read the doc to know what to do. 

Was that what you are sayging?
That is a bit of it yes, jolly good!

There is more, for instance, this thought was born out of Mark’s asking for meaning of “Presentation” and my realization that presentation is not something that can be defined … it is a living idea, always in motion, flexing into the moment in a thousand ways … as diverse and as sensory based as making love.

A child does not learn to speak from a dictionary or documentation … a child learns by doing and imprinting context and sounds and expressions and a hundred other things into a living representation of his vibrational reality. Mark will never understand any written definition of presentation, however, should he experience Megamind (the movie) he will generate pathways that can reveal to him that tag in new contexts and he will feel a rush of neural connections firing whenever I speak about it.

Holmes says
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 10:17:09 [item 19978#45706]
well i deleted the interchange about “presentation”.  maybe y’all can grab that context back somehow.

or maby not … is this it …
Tis here: 19968%252345656 ah, the same, yes!

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:05:22 [item 19978#45673]
well my deleting of an ego fight might make it stronger … but at least it will happen here and not on 19973 where it would have had nothing to do with thinking out loud smug
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:13:20 [item 19978#45674]
This is an important epiphany … truly is the imprint of the day.

… and there are no ego fights here IMHO … not between ego’s in different individuals anyway.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:17:57 [item 19978#45677]
Well … er ….
Just __________ dear Mark, by _______. The way of the child.
is the first jab in an ego fight. 

Were you not aware of that?
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:20:25 [item 19978#45679]
You are welcome to your opinion, but that is not where I fly.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:30:07 [item 19978#45684]
i think i heard it pretty much like mark heard it. 
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:35:26 [item 19978#45686]
If ye heard it as did Mark, then rightly you are to blame. For twas not meant for ye ears or sight.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:41:25 [item 19978#45688]
sure it was … it was comment on my thought!
Mark of group mark 2016-02-16 09:43:08 [item 19978#45689]
Mark of group mark 2016-02-16 09:43:55 [item 19978#45690]
thumbs up
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:44:50 [item 19978#45692]
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 09:46:03 [item 19978#45693]
Twas not addressed to you my dear sir … not right in the sentence.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 09:49:57 [item 19978#45695]
wow now this is getting confusing angry
Mark of group mark 2016-02-16 09:51:19 [item 19978#45696]
thumbs up rwg versus ego 
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 13:11:29 [item 19978#45734]
Well clearly, if we didn’t have ego boundaries, then we would not be playing: i’m right, you’re wrong.   So in a way they are manifestations of the same thing … more like lightning and thunder … if there is thunder, then there was lightening …. if there is rwg, then there are boundaries being defended or attacked. 

← or at least that is consistent with how i understand it.
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 13:20:00 [item 19978#45735]
Telling it like it is is not the same as rwg, not even ego. There are reasons for it.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 13:21:09 [item 19978#45736]
your kidding, right?
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 13:23:10 [item 19978#45738]
Not sure what you think would be kidded about?
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 13:26:35 [item 19978#45740]
… about you implying that you were, “telling it like it is” … as if from a God’s eye view.  Certainly you understand that others will take that as an attack on them if, what you think “just is”, conflicts with their own stoies of themselves. 
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 13:30:45 [item 19978#45742]
How is that wrong? We are each God’s. I love each of us telling it like it is. That is so much more refreshing than being politically or socially or any other kind of correct. What’s correct is each of our points of view, nothing less. When we all start acting like the Gods we are, like children know they are and do, and stop acting like someone is pulling our strings, then roses will bloom in every corner of the beautiful verses we create. All this he said she said is just trying to get other people to recognize our reality as the one … it ain’t, each of ours is. Our language and presentation needs to catch up with that, not get even more muddied and muddled.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 13:39:36 [item 19978#45745]
you can think like a god and act like a god to yourself all you want.   but when you act like a god to me in conflict, you are playing “i am wrong, and you are right” ← pure and simple.

Nobody is going to just accept your “what just is” and not respond in kind.  That is human nature.  Surly you understand … do you not?
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 13:42:31 [item 19978#45747]
I understand that it is human habit. A self protection mechanism born in an age where we felt totally isolated from our true Devine and multversal nature. It’s time for it to start being laid aside. I know it is not easy. I will be brave and go first.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 13:58:17 [item 19978#45751]
lol … thing is, oh sure if everybody is suddenly divine and all … and nobody has a prickelish ego any more … then your behavior will work.   But in this universe that is happening now, do you think that if you prick sombod’s ego with your divine one,  they will start to change, and learn a new way to be?   i mean i don’t even have a prickelish ego ← he says sheepishly … and sometimes your acting like you had a “gods eye view” that would also apply to me,  comes off as funny if not absolutely obnoxious.  you believe you are changing the world by doing that?  come on now, you must be kidding grin
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 14:15:43 [item 19978#45760]
Awww. All that thinking it’s obnoxious is just the green goo in between your own cracks.

Truth is that everyone will react in their own way no matter what I do, and no way will please even half the people. By being myself and on my own leading edge instead of worrying about what others are thinking about me, then others who are ready to reach out and surf on their own leading edges, whatever that may be, will be inspired by seeing me, and others, out there doing it and living it … and that’s a great thing I can do by just being me.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 15:10:00 [item 19978#45764]
yep my feelings of you being obnoxious are all my own doing … not doubt about that part.  and incidentally it’s more just funny than all that offensive to me in particular.

but the matter is deeper than that.  all is fine when we are in sync.   but when disagreement ensues, your saying that your alleged “gods eye view” trumps what i am experience over here,  implies that you are oblivious to that part of the universe which i experience and have dominion.   its like your are seeing out of just the right side of the car and are oblivious to what i see coming on the other side … why? … well just because your eyes are in the wrong head to see the truck barreling down.

i still think that we should talk to each other as equals … and not presume a subjective superior attitude.   i don’t think that will change in any new aged way of being.
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 15:25:04 [item 19978#45766]
Stating what I see is not a superior attitude. It is a clear picture of what I see. The way I say things is far more honest and representative of my actual experience than most anyone else you talk to. I know that it feels one way to you because of how you are used to communicating … and I choose not to use those archaic communication methods.

See, I say archaic, it is honestly how I feel about them, how I see them. I’m not thinking exactly that and pretending something else with you. That I see things that way has nothing to do with you and is not about you. It is about what I see. I respect that you follow those archaic paths either by choice or by habit and either is fine. I don’t need you to be different. You may interpret things differently, that is fine too. My stating them as I see them is simply honest and represents my view and my mood in the moment. That’s all. Nothing more, nothing less.

You know where I am, you know where you are by your own internal means, so this is much clearer communication than the archaic way. People are learning to grow up and be the Gods they are … they are learning to not need things sugar coated anymore. It was a way we did things for various reasons, now it is becoming something different and will continue to do so over the next few generations. You can see this trend everywhere if you look with open eyes … the younger the more so.

seth of group seth 2016-02-16 15:58:02 [item 19978#45770]
so in essence you just said to me, in a couple different ways,  that you honestly think  you see things better than i do when we are in disagreement.   That is fine and all, it is the definition of confident belief.  Pair that with another mind which has the same confident belief to the contrary, and  an the ego game or being right at an others expense of being wrong ensues.  

But there  is no viewpoint where what will actually happen, or what best represents something, is known.  So the situation between people is necessarily symmetric.  To subjectively choose your view is just something that your ego does, and a RWG game will emerge with almost every individual. 

Incidentally, i am curious, what specifically are these “archaic paths” that you presume i follow?   Don’t forget that i too believe, just as confidently,  that i too have found a new honesty … and that every sentence that i write needs to express the truth that i perceive. 
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 16:10:36 [item 19978#45771]
I do not ask you to be different. RWG is all about wanting someone to be different. And I am not perfect, sometimes I do get into rwg games. But more often that not I don’t. I state what I believe and read every word of what you say and believe and often learn much from it. It is only rwg if I am asking you to change or you are wanting me to change. Otherwise it is simple statements of perspective. Statements to don’t have to be couched in an old language pattern of respect as if commoners were speaking to royalty in order to be respectful. Statements only need to be honest and non threatening.

I do show you what I know and what I have learned and suggest ways you can replicate awesome things I have done and do. But I don’t go around badgering you into doing them. When Mark begs for ego food, I often simply supply it. When he stops begging it stops. He’s learning. That he’s using me as his learning tool is his business and I have come to terms with it in my own way. It is what it is and will become next what it will.

seth of group seth 2016-02-16 17:48:26 [item 19978#45772]
well i don’t have any trouble with that.  the situation is symmetrical … that was my point all along … if you see that, no problem at all. 

We all have our own way of expressing our confidence, i am getting used to yours.  Mine is a bit different. If i write a sentence that states experience or story as as a fact, implying that it must necessarily apply to you as well, it feels like i have told a lie.   Consequently where it can matter, i talk in the first person. 

Mark’s RWG  sensitivity started way back even before  Zen and the Art of playing the Agreement Game and has taken up more time here than just about anything else.  To sum up: I think RWG is just a bad habit,  mark thinks it is automatic ….but maybe get that from him.   I must admit, i really don’t know what is going on with Mark, and do not presume that i do.  For my own sanity and the sake of others who might might read our dialog here, i just avoid it, like it was a plague.  Frequently between the lines or RWG, Mark puts his real goodies … and those i look for.  You are taking a different tack.  Well lots of luck with that rose.
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 17:53:09 [item 19978#45773]
Thanks. Well said. rose

And if you have noticed, I do not consider what goes on between you and Mark my business. Sometimes both of you rumble for days and I say nothing. I only come in when my name is mentioned, or some very clear thing calls to my basic spirit, which is rare. What I do with Mark, I do with no one else. If you believe in karmic debt, then call it that, no matter which side you think the balance of debt is on, its as good a view as any. I am glad you don’t get involved.

Seth says
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 15:33:26 [item 19978#45767]
I am more matter of fact and literal with you and Mark than I am with others who speak like I do. With these others, I am lighter, more playful. I trust their honesty and so I can let my guard down more. The matter of fact way I speak here, to you and Mark, is where I can find a middle ground between how you speak and how I desire to speak. I do not think it is wrong at all, it is still very honest. I see that what you are reacting to is far les the matter of factness than it is the truths that I see and say. Yea, there that is again. The “truths” that I see and say. They are mine … that’s what I see. Why should I not say it so you know who and what I am instead of trying to make myself be something you can accept?

Holmes says
Donatello of group da 2016-02-16 17:55:51 [item 19978#45776]
BTW … whatever is under the zen rwg title’d thing, it is private to my eyes.
seth of group seth 2016-02-16 18:00:59 [item 19978#45778]
it is thought 1722 … the & got in the middle of the title reference.

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