O-shit!

About: project vote smart - senator barack h. obama jr. - issue positions (political courage test)

Senator Barack H. Obama Jr. repeatedly refused to provide any responses to citizens on the issues through the 2008 Political Courage Test when asked to do so by national leaders of the political parties, prominent members of the media, Project Vote Smart President Richard Kimball, and Project Vote Smart staff.
Maybe, it's because he can only spout nice empty words that the pundits & population has to speculate about his positions on the issues of the day. Come on, Obama, find some leadership & courage & take the test. The test is on the referenced page & here.
(Same goes for McCain, but he has at least been around long enough to know where he's at)

Tags

  1. obamma
  2. votesmart
  3. anti obama

Comments


Mark de LA says
Actually John McCain's old one is still posted even though the votesmart website has the red non-response warning on it.

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-12 08:57:40 10063
That both Obama and McCain did not respond to Vote Smart tells us much more about the prestige of Vote Smart than it tells us anything about Obama or McCain.
Actually it tells us that neither want's to put their positions in writing! No active candidate will - they might fear being held to their word.

7151 shows that McCain originally had one but apparently not now. It also shows that Algore still does although not running for any position except God.

Mark de LA says
In the spirit of revealing - unmask ye! 


Mark de LA says
2007  In 2007 National Taxpayers Union gave Senator Obama a grade of F.


Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-13 09:51:54 10063
source: M above
... "he can only spout nice empty words that the pundits & population has to speculate about his positions on the issues of the day."
  Obama has told us in writing how he stands on the issues of the day and facts about him can be checked here.
Well, that's his own campaign website - you can find just about anything there which may disappear the next day.  He did do a response to votesmart when he was running for state office in 1998.  It's a clue but not wholly credible for president. Where on his campaign website does he say he will raise your & my taxes? His voting record is much more of a clue. Too bad it's not very long like McCain's.


Mark de LA says
Luttwak in the NY Times points out that:
source: ... As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother

Mark de LA says
M 2008-05-15 03:21:19 10063
While there are plenty of comments from readers of Luttwak's NYTimes article saying Luttwak is full of shit, I would be curious as to how real muslims from the Middle East view O's history of conversion; particularly those from Iran.


Seth says
M 2008-05-15 08:21:54 10063
seth 2008-05-15 08:04:56 10063
source: M above
The last few presidents have traveled to the Middle East to try & resolve the situation, how can O go there  if he has committed a crime in Muslim eyes & get anywhere?
(1) You seem to be suggesting that the American people consult Sharia in selecting a president?  I think that would start a dangerous precident.

(2) People in the Muslim world have already experssed a preference for Obama.  There is not a shread of evidance that Luttwak's theory has any traction whatsoever in that part of the world.

(3) Projecting this now is just an excuse to call Obama a Muslim.  Whereas he is a Christian.
You missunderstand the post. Number 1 is false. Number 2 was mainly Hamas (terrorists). Number 3 never came to my mind.  You got sucked up in all the shit posted by readers/detractors of the editorial in the NYTimes. Number 4 - you really only attacked the messenger & didn't address the question.

The question was answered by "There is not a shread of evidance that Luttwak's theory has any traction whatsoever in that part of the world".  In other words the assumption embedded in the question is false.  Obama would have committed a crime "in Muslim eyes" only when and if Muslim clerics say he has.  But we have seen no such clerics stand up and say that.   "Dr. Edward Nicolae Luttwak  is an American strategist and historian known for his many publications on military strategy, history and international relations." His writings do not legitimately express how a Muslim statesman will react. 

Btw, i didn't read any of the comments. The article is absurd on its face.  I was a bit surprised that you picked it up and repeated it.  Now, perhaps you will answer this question directly: Assuming that you might otherwise vote for Obama, would this be a factor in your decision?

Mark de LA says
M 2008-05-15 10:31:22 10063
FYI, see this article on O's words about negotiating with rogue nations:


Mark de LA says
your puny assertion:
seth: ... The question was answered by "There is not a shred of evidence that Luttwak's theory has any traction whatsoever in that part of the world". 
... is just a negative assertion, like you always do; most of your arguments are just to assert the opposite of what I propose.
I asked for opinions from the Middle East especially Iran on the matter (it would take some digging & research to find that out). Since now, long after his birth & childhood O seems to want to talk to terrorists I presume they would want him to be president. His use of the word Zionists (the n-word in the M.E.) in his interview with the Atlantic also supports my opinion as to which side (if any) he really is on. The last question has a bad premise. The larger question is does O have a foreign policy congruent with America's self-interests.
I consider character first, principles second , & positions & policies on issues third amongst a bunch of other things in choosing a president.  I choose charisma & speech giving last because spinmeisters & Hollywood image consultants produce those. That's why "none of the above" fits best at this time.


Mark de LA says
Why did he change his name?

Mark de LA says
Some more info from an interview with his half-sister:
Barak Obama aka Barry Obama aka Barry Soetoro was raised Muslim.
source: ... ""My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim," said Maya Soetoro-Ng, Mr. Obama's younger half sister. But Mr. Obama attended a Catholic school and then a Muslim public school where the religious education was cursory. When he was 10, he returned to his birthplace of Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attended a preparatory school with a Christian affiliation but little religious instruction."

... some links more in the article to the NYTimes.



Mark de LA says
BTW, I had the question in my mind a long time ago when I first reviewed his bio in Wikipedia - just never expressed it until it came up recently.

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-15 09:43:23 10063
source: Seth above
(2) People in the Muslim world have already experssed a preference for Obama.

To which you responded "Number 2 was mainly Hamas (terrorists)." 
The only Mulsims who would give credance to Luttwak's tortured logic would be fundamentalist who would also justify the 911 attacks as beign supported in the Koran.  That Hamas have not done that means that this logic has no traction.  Fundamentalist use scripture to justifies what they already want to do.  

You still have not answered my question, here in another version:  If Obama gets elected, will this fundamentalist reasoning ever come up in an actual situation?
Hamas & Hezbollah are (just about) wholly owned subsidiaries of Iran who are fundamentalist, islamofascists. 
I said your question has a false premise! Then, I gave you my guidelines - that's about as much as I care to answer a question with a false premise!  (I take O at his word that he is a Christian, the Rev? Wright notwithstanding.)
*
P.S.You really need to spell check your posts! Oops! I guess you changed your question to a confusion - there are fundamentalist Christians & fundamentalist Muslims.

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-16 09:56:31 10063
Here is a piece in the Guardian which makes the case far more eloquently that could I.   I think the intent of Luttwak's tortured argument is clearly just to call Obama a Muslim in an underhanded way.  It still pains me that you took up the call.  Whatever happened with you and seeking the truth?
     Well, now that you are an official partisan 10089 it seems to me that you wouldn't hear the truth even if it took a dump on your doorstep. I wrote it already!  I raised the question as it first occurred to me; Luttwak also raised it. He may have had different motives. I even included some links to information that was not supportive of Luttwak.  I merely wondered about it. The greasy sarcasm of your reference (Silverstein) sucks shit - tried to read it but my stomach turned as I began & I knew that it would be a waste of time if I wanted any truth.  You have failed to get the readings of anyone authoritative on the subject. 
     I have already expressed the position that I accept that O declares himself a Christian. OTOH, I don't think O has made a full disclosure of what influence his Muslim heritage had while he was growing up. He did attend a madrasah at one time.  Tribalism both from his bloodlines, his church & his politics would have that some influence still persists - what is it? I doubt that he can really be forthcoming because he is a politician & wants to win. I know that you can't, don't & won't really know because you are simply a partisan now.
     I don't really want to know about any person's religion.  Most of the time I do not care at all. Religion belongs to the world where concepts live & barely penetrates into tangible, everyday life. It is pure mind shit. 
     9-11 gave us a wake-up call, though & unfortunately made us aware of some who are crazy & are in a deep trance of religious bullshit who want to kill US. As a result we need to inquire into the character & principles of those we elect as president. Hope & change alone doesn't cut it!  BTW, change is just stirring the pot without adding any new dimensions to the situation. We need a revealing of real character & real principles - not hazy visions.
      Had I known that this election would nominate no qualified candidates by my way of thinking, I might have pressed harder for something like the 3rd street revolution.  Now, I have to trust to Providence that those that occupy the office of President & are in Congress are able to grow into their jobs guided within Spirit Being of America. Or, otherwise, that something like the destruction of America is ordained within the Earth's evolution!



Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-16 11:45:31 10063
source: M above
He did attend a madrasah at one time.

This is simply not true watch the Cnn video. 

source: Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian
Indonesian Embassy Says That Besuki School Attended by Barack Obama "Has Never Been an Islamic Madrassah Type of School." A letter from the Indonesian Embassy stated that "Sekolah Dasar Negeri Besuki in Menteng, Jakarta, Indonesia has always been a public school. It has never been an Islamic madrassa type of school."
There is also a school up in Minnesota which claims it is not a madrasah either, but they do their 6 prayers a day & teach from the Koran. DID O say his daily prayers toward Mecca & was he taught from the Koran along with Muslim children?
Nobody wants to answer that question!

Seth says
source: M above
DID O say his daily prayers toward Mecca & was he taught from the Koran along with Muslim children?
... No.  That was answered in the video i posted above.  Apparently they had separate religion classes for the Christian children.

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-16 12:18:18 10063
M 2008-05-16 12:08:13 10063
Yep, they had separate classes, but which ones did O attend? Did he ever attend the Muslim classes ? How many? How often?

.. and if he had attended a muslim class would that have tainted him for the presidency of the United States?  Personally i would be glad that he had an early acquaintance with Islam ... that will make him a better spokesman for America in the Muslim world. 
It goes more toward exposing his character if he is trying to hide his Muslim schooling.   This article in WND seems to conflict with some of your beliefs on the matter & may shed some light on the subject. 
source: ...

Speaking to the country's Kaltim Post, Tine Hahiyary, who was principal of Obama's school while he was enrolled there, said she recalls he studied the Quran in Arabic.

"At that time, I was not Barry's teacher but he is still in my memory" claimed Tine, who is 80 years old. The Kaltim Post says Obama's teacher, named Hendri, died.

"I remember that he studied 'mengaji (recitation of the Quran)," Tine said, according to an English translation by Loatze.

Mengaji, or the act of reading the Quran with its correct Arabic punctuation, is usually taught to more religious pupils and is not known as a secular study.

Also, Loatze documented the Indonesian daily Banjarmasin Post caught up with Rony Amir, an Obama classmate and Muslim, who describe Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam."


Read the whole article if you dare! 
source: ...

Catholic schools in Indonesia routinely accept non-Catholic students, but exempt them from studying religion. Obama's school documents, though, wrongly list him as being Indonesian.

After attending the Assisi Primary School, Obama was enrolled


Seth says
One can only hope that after your research into this you will conclude that Obama is not now nor has ever been a Muslim although he had some early acquaintance with the subject.  One could also hope that you would make a clear statement distinguishing your beliefs from the partisan smears that have been going around.  Perhaps then, should you encounter somone saying something stupid like "I would't vote for Obama, he's a Muslim you know", as have i, you will have the political courage to set the man straight. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-19 08:50:31 10063
One can only hope that after your research into this you will conclude that Obama is not now nor has ever been a Muslim although he had some early acquaintance with the subject.  One could also hope that you would make a clear statement distinguishing your beliefs from the partisan smears that have been going around.  Perhaps then, should you encounter somone saying something stupid like "I would't vote for Obama, he's a Muslim you know", as have i, you will have the political courage to set the man straight. 
This post of yours suggests that no amount of evidence or truth is of value to you because your partisanship for Obama shades the truth from your VIEW. To label things as smears is the best you can do? WND apparently did some actual research that the M$M didn't do. The interview with O's sister is also good information. Long ago, I stated my acceptance that O claims to be a Christian. My question has been from the start, how much of his childhood training in Islam penetrates into his now & future & exactly what is it? Like I said, before, it goes to his character & principles how much he prefers to hide.  O smears as well - he's a politician.  His latest is to hype fear in old people that SS will fail if privatized.  In fact, if at least partially privatized that tax money would not be spent by Congress & instead it would be invested for the future of those working now! Government is not a good place to invest your money!

P.S. Did you miss the Obama mass? It would be nice to get some iReporting for fbi.

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