Hillary claims popular vote!

About: realclearpolitics - 2008 elections - democratic vote count

 I wonder what Algore (who thought he was robbed in 2000) has to say about the Democrat party not wanting to "count all the votes" in the primary election?
I wonder if all of the  5'-8.75" Howard Dean can scream loud enough to enforce his Napoleonic rules upon all the people who voted for Hillary?  The convention in Denver this August could, but probably won't, get interesting. We'll see tonight if the total popular vote count gets changed or changes things.




Tags

  1. popular vote
  2. democrat party
  3. primary
  4. 2008 election
  5. caucuses
  6. anti hillary

Comments


Seth says
M 2008-05-20 11:24:44 10127
It's the counting of votes from ballots & also counting of votes by caucuses that seems like double voting.  Maybe the Democrat politicians like to talk out of their asses as well!

In Washington state the only thing that "counted" was registering in the caucus.  I also voted in the primary but that didn't affect the deligates going to the convention.  This process varies greatly from state to state.  You need to look at the whole process and ask whether it yields the will of the people.  It seems to me that you are  making some kind of insinuation that the will of the people is being unfairly counted but you have not articulated specifically where the problem might be and what state you are talking about.

Mark de LA says
It's the counting of votes from ballots & also counting of votes by caucuses that seems like double voting.  Maybe the Democrat politicians like to talk out of their asses as well!


Mark de LA says


Seth says
Caucuses are intended to allow citizens to become more involved with the process of selecting a candidate.   In some states perhaps it is more involving that in others.   In Washington state there was not much actual involvement with issues and it ended up being just a interesting social event.   It does give participants the feeling of belonging to a party.   I think that any politician who discounts this process is talking out the side of his/her neck.  

Mark de LA says
M 2008-05-20 10:22:38 10127
Hmmm.... now there were 2 kinds of votes as well as 2 kinds of states, some counted & some not - is that your drift?  Anyway none of the above is a better choice than all of the candidates! The caucus thingy is fascinating in that that causes double voting as well.

Your Democrat party at work to get elected to spend your money!  No wonder budgets don't balance & a spending bill for the emergency funding on Iraq contains lard for earmarks to all kinds of special interests.


Mark de LA says
Seth: ... I also voted in the primary but that didn't affect the delegates going to the convention. 
...like I said, votes which count & votes which don't! Democrat party confusion. Lord help us if they actually get in power. Oops! They already control Congress with a 19% approval rating - 10 points below Bush!
The following picture is interesting from Gallup:
It shows H is steady & O strangely rising.



Mark de LA says
Reminds me of the 2000 presidential election; why doesn't somebody sue somebody?


Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-20 10:03:59 10127
Hillary is exploiting a definitional complexity in claiming the majority of popular votes.  She totally discounts (does not count) the people who stood up for Obama in the caucuses.  Iow, she is not counting my vote.  She also discounts those people who voted uncomitted in Michigan because they were told that was a vote for Obama.  If some reasonable means of definining those votes is used, she does not win the popular vote.  This is not the kind of argument that i would want my president to be advancing. 
Your definitional complexity [sic] notwithstanding, H actually got votes from real? people who voted for her on real ballots; an inconvenient truth the 'bama acolytes choose to hide beneath a definitional complexity shroud.

Yeah, it's just to complex for us voters to understand.

Mark de LA says
Actually O is just about to stack the Democrat party in his own image so that it will become a moot point real soon:
Source
 WASHINGTON

Mark de LA says
Seth: ...
Oh wow, so my vote for Obama wasn't real ... or is it because i caucused with the rest of the activists i'm not a real person.  You know that rubbing alcohol doesn't make it taste any better, are rubbing one of Hillary's most stupid distortions of reality has earned you a rare two barfs.
... You took it personally; an unintended consequence of partisanship.  I was emphasizing that regardless of the Democrat party attempts to disenfranchise voters in Florida & Michigan, real people voted for her (not concepts of illegal voters on imaginary ballots).  Glad for the chance to tease it out.



Mark de LA says
seth 2008-05-21 10:34:58 10127
Before you buy into Hillary's winning the popular vote argument you might want to look at some real numbers.
Fascinating, if you take into account those that voted (the state of washington apparently doesn't want to release those figures) - she still has an edge (purple). It is confusing.
State Date Obama Clinton Spread
Popular Vote Total 16,652,031 49.0% 16,209,754 47.7% Obama +442,277 +1.3%
Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 16,986,115 49.1% 16,433,616 47.5% Obama +552,499 +1.6%
Popular Vote (w/FL) 17,228,245 48.3% 17,080,740 47.8% Obama +147,505 +0.5%
Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 17,562,329 48.3% 17,304,602 47.6% Obama +257,727 +0.7%
Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)** 17,228,245 47.5% 17,409,049 48.0% Clinton +180,804 +0.50%
Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 17,562,329 47.5% 17,632,911 47.7% Clinton +70,582 +0.19%


Seth says
I found the comment making all the bolding and deleted it.  Too bad if any of our perls of wisdom bit the dust at same time.

Anyway here is another meme to chew on ...
source: toonces comment on reddit
re: Oregon Exit Polls: Obama Handily Beat Hillary Among Whites, No-College, Less-Than-$50,000 Voters

in Kentucky or West Virginia, they are called "white trash"..

in Oregon, they are called "hippies"..

very different demographic, even though they fall under the same category..
...

Mark de LA says
Sounds somewhat racist to me!  Oregon is leftist - go figure! It was the first state in the Union to go for assisted-suicide. Life is cheap on both ends of the timeline.  When they start starving "Let them smoke Pot!"


Mark de LA says
Your numbers are not in the RCP matrix - must have changed. Yep, to you there are illegal voters, but real people actually voted. Who knows what Washington state is up to?
I smell a lawsuit.

Now who was that guy that took the 2000 election to the supreme court ?

Mark de LA says
Actually, I suspect that given what we are beginning to discover about O that if the primary elections were reheld today H would be very far ahead.


Mark de LA says
Democrat rules - the only thing that makes sense to me is to rerun the primaries in those states, but who knew the outrage was reserved only against Bush.


Mark de LA says


Mark de LA says
A minor update for some:  Slaves were originally given 3/5 of a vote by the constitution, now the DNC gives those in Florida & Michigan even less than that - only 1/2 of a vote.  See Florida, Michigan get all delegates, but each gets half vote.

Seth says
M 2008-06-02 09:30:15 10127
A minor update for some:  Slaves were originally given 3/5 of a vote by the constitution, now the DNC gives those in Florida & Michigan even less than that - only 1/2 of a vote.  See Florida, Michigan get all delegates, but each gets half vote.
It really was quite a complex history that got us to the decision on Saturday.  If you just emote about the endpoint it does feel strange.  But if you realize that before the decision those two states were going to get absolutely no votes, then it looks quite different.  If you follow the whole history, sorted as it may be, you might determine that the committee actually did the best it could to make it fair from a situation that had gotten totally fucked up. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-06-02 09:54:23 10127
M 2008-06-02 09:30:15 10127
A minor update for some:  Slaves were originally given 3/5 of a vote by the constitution, now the DNC gives those in Florida & Michigan even less than that - only 1/2 of a vote.  See Florida, Michigan get all delegates, but each gets half vote.
It really was quite a complex history that got us to the decision on Saturday.  If you just emote about the endpoint it does feel strange.  But if you realize that before the decision those two states were going to get absolutely no votes, then it looks quite different.  If you follow the whole history, sorted as it may be, you might determine that the committee actually did the best it could to make it fair from a situation that had gotten totally fucked up. 
Could have spent the extra bucks for a new election & freed the slaves!


Mark de LA says
While probably a moot point at this juncture consider:


Mark de LA says
It's still hard to figure out who won the popular vote. It doesn't matter anyway because the party bigwigs do the final choosing.  You can add the mixture of caucuses & votes & get the confusion shown in RCP, plus those less-than-slaves in Mi & Fl.


Mark de LA says
One more for the road  which goes to show
that a picture can say more than a bunch of blogs:


Mark de LA says
seth 2008-06-05 15:02:54 10127
Are you just  laughing about HillaryMath here?
That too! & mostly the DNC & Howard Dean's disenfranchisement of some voters. The whole primary way of choosing a candidate sucks. That it is a so called "private" party choice belies that it is part of a process going into the final election of the president. Why the individual states can't choose when they want to hold their own primaries is befuddling. I think it should be codified in some kind of law & get rid of the BS.


Seth says
The process looks like one that has long evolved under the influence of politicians.  Sure it's not pretty.  I think there could be cases where the superdeligates would need to overide elected deligates and nominate another candidate; but this was not a case in point ... Hillary's devoted supporters notwistanding.  Sure, primary dates was a stupid reason to disenfranchise.  A case where staunch following rules without regard for their priorities goofed up the process. But in the end it did not matter.  Obama would have won under any circumstances.  If he had been on the ballot and campaigned in those states it would have been even a bigger margin.  He outfoxed a pro ... to me demolishes her "better candidate against McCain" argument.  He will outfox the old man too.  You don't win a election like this nomination without having excellant political smarts.

Mark de LA says
Your Obammagasm notwithstanding, ponder for a moment that a superdelegate vote could be worth more than 10,000 of your own votes! It goes to what used to be the smoke filled rooms of the old days where insiders chose who to vote for & what they would get out of it for their blessings.  In the end I believe that the media had the most & biggest vote.


Seth says
M 2008-06-06 09:50:10 10127
Your Obammagasm notwithstanding, ponder for a moment that a superdelegate vote could be worth more than 10,000 of your own votes! It goes to what used to be the smoke filled rooms of the old days where insiders chose who to vote for & what they would get out of it for their blessings.  In the end I believe that the media had the most & biggest vote.

I don't see anything wrong with those who take it upon themselves to get involved in politics should not have more effect than those who couldn't care less.  That is certainly what happened in Washington and probably in every caucus state.  You know, those states in which, according to HillaryMath, nobody voted at all.

Mark de LA says
Noted!
The electoral college is perfectly balanced between states & federal government. The primary super delegate notion is not.  Super delegates just preserve the current power structure of the Democrat party (& Republican?).  A mirror of the electoral college not super loaded with bigwigs would be preferable.  Jimmy Carter is not elected to anything & yet he is a super delegate.  Likewise with many others.  I will refer this matter to the 3rd street governing committee!


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