Obama tries to stall withdrawl from Iraq ?

About: OBAMA TRIED TO STALL GIS IRAQ WITHDRAWAL

Omma God, It's happening without him!

source: ...

WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi leaders to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military presence.

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

"He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.

...

I wonder if any other M$M is going to pick up on this?

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Mark de LA says

source: ...
But in the same statement, Morigi said Obama had told the Iraqis they should not rush through a "Strategic Framework Agreement" governing the future of U.S. troops until after President Bush leaves office, the Associated Press reported

...

Seth says

M 2008-09-16 10:43:11 10489

seth 2008-09-16 09:57:50 10489

More perspective on this matter here: Obama camp hits back at Iraq double-talk claim.

Basically what we have here is spin & "liar, liar, pant's on fire".

Well the article did not use the "L" word, but i certainly will. The title of this item is a lie. Obama did not try to stall withdrawal from Iraq. That is a verifiable fact. And if there is spin in the article, then point it out like i did ... "any withdrawal & agreement to get out" is a erronious spin on "status of forces agreement".

You seem to act as if we cannot determine the truth of these simple matters and you seem to accept that it is OK to send politicians to Washington who make it a practice to deceive us. Sorry i am not that pessimistic.

Mark de LA says

seth 2008-09-16 09:57:50 10489

More perspective on this matter here: Obama camp hits back at Iraq double-talk claim.

Basically what we have here is spin & "liar, liar, pant's on fire".

Seth says

M 2008-09-16 11:53:11 10489

That is probably true. However, as i have been trying to get across to you, you need to distinguish between Iraq and Us agreeing on a Status of Forces going into the future ("Strategic Framework Agreement") and "stalling withdrawal from Iraq". You cannot just substitute those terms for each other without introducing erroneous spin.

Mark de LA says

seth 2008-09-15 09:05:46 10489

I suggest you investigate why "any withdrawal & agreement to get out" is not an appropriate substitution for "status of forces agreement"; big splashes of toast and attacks on the messenger notwithstanding.

This being content free notwithstanding, you investigate it & Obama's early anti-war pronouncements.

Mark de LA says

seth 2008-09-15 08:33:06 10489

This "story" is a spin on a request to delay the status of forces agreement, rather than have the Bush administration institutionalize our military presence in Iraq. Read what the report actually does say about Obama's concerns there with the spin deleted ...

source: NewYork Post

Obama insisted that Congress should be involved in negotiations on the status of US troops - and that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its "state of weakness and political confusion."...

His advice was that, rather than reach an accord with the "weakened Bush administration," Iraq should seek an extension of the UN mandate.

The headline and spin of the story is not justified by what Obama was actually seeking. No i doubt that this story will grow any legs because it is just spin.

Nor is your spin worth anything ! Given his vehement history of calling for getting the troops out of Iraq, you would think (well you wouldn't) that any withdrawl & agreement to get out would be welcomed. Politics on the other hand dictates that a losing Obama recover some of that which got him on the national stage in the first place in opposition to the war. If it's happening without him, what do we need him for - he's toast. Your spin, Seth, is rejected!

Seth says

M 2008-09-15 09:30:40 10489

seth 2008-09-15 09:05:46 10489

This being content free notwithstanding, you investigate it & Obama's early anti-war pronouncements.

I don't need to investigate it more, i remember the stories that came out at the time - it would be easy to read them into the record. I remember being outraged myself that a lame duck president was negotiating to keep out troops in harm's way perhaps indefinitely. Bush was trying to tie the hands of the next president and to institutionalize our presence in Iraq. Anything Obama said to the Iraqi governmental officials to delay signing the status of forces agreement was well advised. Look, Mark, i might be wrong ... but the onus is on you to provide evidence that his advise was not targeted to the SOF agreement but rather was targeted to delaying the withdrawal - which your words and the headlines indicate. If your just into trading insults ... im out of here ... but if you want to use this as an example of [item 10488] i will work with you as objectively as i can.

Seth says

source: barackobama.com

The Status-of-Forces-Agreement

Obama believes any Status of Forces Agreement, or any strategic framework agreement, should be negotiated in the context of a broader commitment by the U.S. to begin withdrawing its troops and forswearing permanent bases. Obama also believes that any security accord must be subject to Congressional approval. It is unacceptable that the Iraqi government will present the agreement to the Iraqi parliament for approval—yet the Bush administration will not do the same with the U.S. Congress. The Bush administration must submit the agreement to Congress or allow the next administration to negotiate an agreement that has bipartisan support here at home and makes absolutely clear that the U.S. will not maintain permanent bases in Iraq.

Can you see anything in there about stalling withdrawal from Iraq? Btw, both Bush and Obama can withdraw troops from Iraq quite independently of any STOF agreement.

Mark de LA says

& BTW, Bush can also do what he wants in this regard as commander-in-chief & he's doing it. Obama would do good to review his behavior vis-a-vis the Logan Act!

Mark de LA says

BTW this is not an example of 10488. Basically, that item is not dealing with politics since politics is essentially the RWG & not really a search for the truth. That item will keep clear of politics.

Seth says

There is more details here about this topic here. Although the bias of the author of the article is clear, it does contain several useful historical facts and pointers.

Mark de LA says

seth 2008-09-19 12:53:26 10489

Hopefully this news story will put this item to rest ...

source: ABC News Undermining McCain Campaign Attack, Republicans Back Obama‘s Version of Meeting with Iraqi Leaders

Attendees of the meeting back Obama's account, including not just Sen. Jack Reed, D-RI, but Hagel, Senate Foreign Relations Committee staffers from both parties. Officials of the Bush administration who were briefed on the meeting by the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad also support Obama's account and dispute the Post story and McCain attack.

The Post story is "absolutely not true," Hagel spokesman Mike Buttry told ABC News.

"Barack Obama has never urged a delay in negotiations," said Obama campaign national security spokesperson Wendy Morigi, "nor has he urged a delay in immediately beginning a responsible drawdown of our combat brigades."

There is a lot of hearsay in the ABC article. Not even Hagel is quoted directly. Hagel is not a source I respect. He has had Bush-derrangement syndrome for a long time. Perhaps this is the most useful part of the article:

source: ... Taheri confused the Strategic Framework Agreement, which Obama feels should be reviewed by Congress, with the Status of Forces Agreement, which Obama says the Bush administration should negotiate with the Iraqis as soon as possible

... I see no reason for either to be delayed. If these meetings were secret which ones were attended by whom? Just because some people went along on the trip doesn't mean they were all there at all meetings.

Obama tries to stall withdrawl from Iraq ?

About: OBAMA TRIED TO STALL GIS IRAQ WITHDRAWAL

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