A Hint at the Future CHANGE that Obama will Bring?

About: prosecutors for obama hunting for -lying ads-

source: ... St. Louis and Missouri Democrat sheriffs and top prosecutors are planning to go after anyone who makes false statements against Obama during his campaign. This is so one sided I can't even being to describe how wrong this agenda is," writes blogger Jim Hoft.
... & see also:
... & also:
M's Opinion on the matter:
I have heard from some that one of Obama's tactics is to "take out" the opposition. It has been said that he won his state senatorial campaign by so doing. This appears to be more of the same. CNN called it playing hardball.
OTOH, It would be fun someday to prosecute & remove a candidate or office holder who offered up substantial lies in the media & in his stump speeches.
I doubt that this will ever happen simply because lying has become protected political speech & apparently is guaranteed by the first ammendment; libel laws & slander laws being weak at best. It seems as if Obama is taking lessons from Putin.
 Ann help me out!

Tags

  1. obama
  2. anit obmam

Comments


Mark de LA says
M 2008-09-29 06:39:53 10560
Because I am still left wondering if we as a nation could ever have truth show up in the process of determining the next president & because S introduced a tit-4-tat RWG flavor to this wondering, I am closing this item. The touchstone article & the headlines were the promptings for my inquiry less than yet another opportunity to bash O. I have wondered about this topic long before I ever heard of O, perhaps before he was born.

If S wants to debate how to get lying out of the political domain on a different neutral item then I would welcome it. However just saying that your guy lies more than mine is more of the sos futility. Human machinery (Ahriman) dictates that it is the same as it ever was...same as it ever was...


Mark de LA says
So you have totally sidetracked this topic with a tit-4-tat. This item is about the Obama campaign's gestapo (or is it KGB) tactics trying to make criminal the opposing campaign's free speech .  That is how Putin has maintained his power. That's what you can expect from Obama if he gets elected.



Mark de LA says
seth 2008-09-28 14:17:52 10560
It would be a good idea to "prosecute & remove a candidate or office holder who offered up substantial lies in the media & in his stump speeches".  I suggest we start with the following ...
source: McCain speaking at Sportsmens Alliance in Columbus Ohio Saturday
"It was clear that Senator Obama still sees the financial crisis in America as a national problem to be exploited first and solved later.  What he doesn’t seem to get is that if we don’t deal with it right now, by working together for the common good, then this crisis could turn into a far-reaching disaster for workers, businesses, retirees, and the American middle class. This is a moment of great testing, when the future of our economy is on the line."

Obama has emphasized several times that we must deal with this issue now or it will turn into a disaster; so McCain is telling a bold faced lie by asserting the opposite.  He claims that Obama is exploiting it, but that is exactly what he has done with his threat to cancel the debate. 
This is mostly a difference of opinion as to what would show up if Obama actually did something - an unusual event since mostly all he does is talk. You pull the liar trigger quite a lot on things which are just a matter of interpretation.  That's why this is such a problem to pin down.

Seth says
MR 2008-09-28 15:16:05 10560
seth 2008-09-28 14:17:52 10560
It would be a good idea to "prosecute & remove a candidate or office holder who offered up substantial lies in the media & in his stump speeches".  I suggest we start with the following ...
source: McCain speaking at Sportsmens Alliance in Columbus Ohio Saturday
"It was clear that Senator Obama still sees the financial crisis in America as a national (A) problem to be exploited first (B) and solved later(C) What he doesn’t seem to get is that if we don’t deal with it right now, by working together for the common good, then this crisis could turn into a far-reaching disaster for workers, businesses, retirees, and the American middle class. This is a moment of great testing, when the future of our economy is on the line."

Obama has emphasized several times that we must deal with this issue now or it will turn into a disaster; so McCain is telling a bold faced lie by asserting the opposite.  He claims that Obama is exploiting it, but that is exactly what he has done with his threat to cancel the debate. 
This is mostly a difference of opinion as to what would show up if Obama actually did something - an unusual event since mostly all he does is talk. You pull the liar trigger quite a lot on things which are just a matter of interpretation.  That's why this is such a problem to pin down.

Let us just concentrate on the one issue that i have bolded.  I broke it down to three propositions: A, B and C.  Mixing a little bit of truth with false propositions is still deceit.  All three propositions must be true, or McCain's statement is deceitful.  Let us look at each proposition separately:

(A) problem to be exploited first - This is true enough.  It is Obama's job running for president to point blame for the crisis on the Republicans.  Certainly he is expected to exploit it. McCain also tried to exploit it by threatening to cancel the debate.  But (A) is still true.

(B) and solved later - This is false.  Obama called for passing the bill.  Every time he talks about it he talks about supporting the action. 
source: Obama from full text of debate
"So we have to move swiftly, and we have to move wisely. And I’ve put forward a series of proposals that make sure that we protect taxpayers as we engage in this important rescue effort."
(C) What he doesn’t seem to get is that if we don’t deal with it right now, by working together for the common good, then this crisis could turn into a far-reaching disaster - This is false. As the following quote from the debate proves ...
source: Obama from full text of debate
"You know, we are at a defining moment in our history. Our nation is involved in two wars, and we are going through the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression."
... so Barack absolutely does get it. 

So what we have is one true proposition and two false ones in the same paragraph.  He is definitely trying to misrepresent Obama's position.  If he becomes president, lord help us, i will not be able to trust him to speak the truth.  

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-09-28 23:12:10 10560
Whatever, you had a good idea about punitive measures for deceit.  I was giving you a actual example to follow up.  Your Obama thing is not something that he did, rather it is something that may or may not have happened in his behalf.  I doubt that there is any evidence to tie any malfeasance to an actual Obama campaign official.  It is not something that would sway my vote even if i had not already decided.  If you can find clear evidance that Obama has been as deceitful as McCain ... by all means bring it to my attention.  We have had enough deceit in Washington.  I'm proud that my candidate has steered his campaign substantually in the direction of honesty.  I'm sure that there have been exaggerations and spins but nothing like on the other side. 
Clinton had the same kind of plausable deniability going for him in office & he was one of the most deceitful presidents. Remember nobody could remember who hired Craig Livingston who was responsible for having the fbi files on members of congress. If you can't control your acolytes you are not much of a leader. It's just as shitty to gin up your followers & something happens & deny you had anything to do with it. Obama has been deceitful on a lot of his past associations like his pastor Wright, Ayers, Rezko etc.

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