Economy & the Economic Sphere

Seth asked in a comment to 10689 the question:
source: ... Then too is there really any being that exists that is the M$M or is that just a myth? 
... the same question can be posed about the economy ! Is there such a being as the abstraction the economy seems to offer? Political pundits & the news & the government seems to act like there is.  "It's the economy, stupid!" proclaims one during GHWB's failed second term election. Anyway, this morning I thought a little deeper and came up the notion that the economy is just all of us exchanging goods & services with eachother; the rest is just statistics. It's all the economists & meddling politicians & government that would have us believe that it's something mysterious & magical that the rest of us commoners can't understand & that we must defer to government to manage.   
    ~~~    
   It's just US - doing what we do! (like working & spending money)
~~~
   Like the answer to the Zen question "What is Life?" - it's all the shit going on at this moment & each moment. The economic Zen question's answer to "What is the economy?" is all the shit going on & what we're doing buying & selling goods & services.  If there is a problem it may be because we are ginned up by the pundits, lobbyists, politicians & so-called experts that there is one.  The reality is that such people don't produce anything to buy or sell except bullshit!
   P.S. I will get to RS & the threefoldness just a little bit later & link it here.  I just had to get this off my chest NOW.


Tags

  1. the economy
  2. economics

Comments


Seth says
Collectively we are just as much a being as we are individually beings.  You can judge and measure the health of such collective beings, just like you take your temperature when you get a fever.   You can enumerate the members of the collective that makes up the economy being by going (tran1, tran2, tran3, ect).  It is extensional.  But this Economy goes up and down ... expands and contracts.  I agree with you, we don't need the government to suppress the natural cycles of the economy. 

My point in 10689 was that the M$M is no longer extensional.  We can no longer enumerate its members in a way that is true to most people.  Perhaps even in the 90's we could: (CBS, NBC, ABC, NYT, LATimes, etc) but, me thinks, that has been broken down  by the expansion of the media (cable etc) and its differentiation (foxnews, msnbc), the decay of the newspapers, and the advent of the internet.  Now people pick and choose what is media to them.  The M$M is no longer coherant.  Of course to you, to any given person, they simply personify everything that they don't choose as their news as some kind of evil M$M.  If you are a liberal, then you might call that "The Conservitive Blogisphere and Foxnews" ... if you are a conservitive, then you call it the "liberal media". 

Mark de LA says
It is true, though, that there are & have been a bunch of crooks both in government, punditland & politics that have fucked "it" up from being such a nice & normal process. Let's not put them back in charge unless we force them to fix it !!!


Mark de LA says
Well, Seth I really didn't want to pursue the rant from 10689 here.  I was simply saying that it is a similar question as this one on the economy.  Perhaps you are not quite zen enough to get that we are mesmerized by politicians, M$M, pundits, & politicians to think that the economy is really independent people doing what they do. The situation is familiar to students of NLP as "nominalism" - holding something as a noun, as a thing, which is really a process.  The cure of such caused ills is to ask open questions such as "How or why are you choosing or valuing your goods & services the way you do these days?"
Greenspan was familiar with the effect of experts & pundits & knew he could spook the stock market by things he said so he was an obfuscator when he testified before Congress. Our politicians are not so benign.

Seth says
Well i do get that The Economy is just an abstraction of us doing business individually.  I'm with you on that one. I doubt that many people would not get that.  And i'm also with you on saying that we don't need government to take draconian measure to insist that it always grows. Let it go ahead and contract. 

To me everything is a process, so apparently i wouldn't be suffering from your "nominalism".  Maybe that's why i don't understand how your open question works.  But it does distrub me and my pocket book when pundits mouth off about it not going to be a good Christmas season ... that's when i make all my money.  They should shut the fuck up!

Mark de LA says
seth 2008-10-28 09:50:57 10738
Well i do get that The Economy is just an abstraction of us doing business individually.  I'm with you on that one. I doubt that many people would not get that.  And i'm also with you on saying that we don't need government to take draconian measure to insist that it always grows. Let it go ahead and contract. 

To me everything is a process, so apparently i wouldn't be suffering from your "nominalism".  Maybe that's why i don't understand how your open question works.  But it does distrub me and my pocket book when pundits mouth off about it not going to be a good Christmas season ... that's when i make all my money.  They should shut the fuck up!
The question above may not be the best one but the jist of it is to ask questions in terms of verbs instead of nouns. How & Why questions elicit thinking in terms of verbs. How can I improve the way I do business? How can I make this Christmas my best year ever?
Questions asked & held for answers configure a person's reality. Why do I suck? - is probably a bad one to ask yourself.
It has been found that when polling for opinions on the economy (up until recent) most people say they are fine, but they suspect that people in the neighborhood are probably doing worse.  It's the opinion about other people that drives some of the situation.

Mark de LA says
-SNIP- The situation is familiar to students of NLP as "nominalism" - holding something as a noun, as a thing, which is really a process.  The cure of such caused ills is to ask open questions such as "How or why are you choosing or valuing your goods & services the way you do these days?"
BTW, this is an excellent lead in to RS's views of the economy.  He carried the idea to the extreme & said that hard & fast rules & institutions should be eliminated in favor of a process that included the right spiritual considerations. .... more later. No Utopias - get the process to evolve out of human freedom & internal inspirations.



See Also

  1. Thought Slow Money with 15 viewings related by tag "economics".
  2. Thought The Soul of Capitalism with 8 viewings related by tag "economics".
  3. Thought Economics Dialogues with 5 viewings related by tag "economics".
  4. Thought The Real Problem - Expansion & Contraction with 4 viewings related by tag "economics".
  5. Thought If you have problems eating too much ... with 4 viewings related by tag "economics".
  6. Thought Diaspora with 2 viewings related by tag "economics".
  7. Thought Two Things ... with 0 viewings related by tag "economics".
  8. Thought Hillsdale Economics 101 - with 0 viewings related by tag "economics".
  9. Thought Division of Labor is Good - supported by arguments with 0 viewings related by tag "economics".
  10. Thought Division of Labor is Good - disputed by arguments with 0 viewings related by tag "economics".
  11. Thought Why commerce ... with 0 viewings related by tag "economics".
  12. Thought The dominant patterns ... with 0 viewings related by tag "economics".