STEP 3 (SOCIALISM) - Silence the Opposition

About: karl rove says barack obama has moved chicago politics to the white house - wsj.com

Opposition in Obama's own party to his profligate spending, indenturing descendants as servants for a future paying off his debt so that the government can spend more, finds that he is leveraging the power of the presidency & his past of community organizing & Alinsky's rule number one to silence the opposition & ram through his budgets & spending bills. Rather than finding better plans or even getting out of the way & letting the market do it's thing he apparently would rather silence those in his own party under threats against their re-election.

Again, the more the government takes over the more you have to work for it to pay off the debt with your taxes. So far we have about one whole year of GDP to pay it off & no changes as far as Obama is in power. If you don't know what the GDP is go take an econ course.

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Mark de LA says

seth 2009-04-02 11:22:19 11731

MR 2009-04-02 11:18:49 11731

seth 2009-04-02 11:15:24 11731

Apparently Rove is complaining about Obama doing what Rove himself did for Bush only more effectively.

I was going to put in a warning about trying to keep your comments to the substance or principles rather than the messenger, but apparently & predictably you couldn't help yourself.

I probably would have except i couldnt find any substance there that was not clowed by static like Alinsky's rule number one. Any time you want to have dialogue with rules of argumentation i will be the first to follow the rules.

There are no rules of argumentation. Ad hominem statements calling what I argue static or distraction are horse shit; providing no substance! I could implement a rule that summarily deletes such horse shit! (which follow e.g. Alinsky's rule number 5).

OTOH, Obama using organizing principles & outside organizations against dissidents in his own party is rather unusual. I suspect that Karl Rove didn't do that against Republicans.

Seth's own source: ... President Obama last week at the Democratic House Caucus meeting was quoted by the Associated Press, telling Peter DeFazio, a Democrat from Oregon who voted against the stimulus bill. When DeFazio stood up and asked a question, President Obama said to him, “don’t think we aren’t keeping score, brother,” which was a pretty pointed reference to a member of the caucus that “I know you voted against my stimulus package, I’ve remembered it and we’re keeping score.” What exactly are they going to do when they tote up the final tally?

...

Seth says

FYI, Obama is soliciting his supporters directly (see letter to me pasted below). Just like any other junk mail i have the right to ignore it. I don't know if the Bush administration was doing the same, but somehow i doubt that they were that advanced.

Seth says

MR 2009-04-02 11:18:49 11731

seth 2009-04-02 11:15:24 11731

Apparently Rove is complaining about Obama doing what Rove himself did for Bush only more effectively.

I was going to put in a warning about trying to keep your comments to the substance or principles rather than the messenger, but apparently & predictably you couldn't help yourself.

Mark de LA says

If Obama's profligate spending is so wonderful why does he have to use coersion to get members of his own party to agree to it? That is the real question!

Seth says

source: MR falsely states above
There are no rules of argumentation.

Well certainly there are, and yes, Ad hominem is not allowed.

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-04-02 11:47:18 11731

source: MR falsely states above
There are no rules of argumentation.

Well certainly there are, and yes, Ad hominem is not allowed.

Everyone who loses an argument would like to write their own set of rules for arguing. Just like the rules of war or the Marquis of Queensberry rules for boxing. Are the terrorists using the rules of war? Did Mike Tyson use the rules when he bit off part of his opponent's ear? I do subscribe to the law of gravity, however! Now there is a rule!

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-04-02 11:52:12 11731

source: MR says
Ad hominem statements calling what I argue static or distraction are horse shit; providing no substance!

Really clean up you own behavior before you rag on mine. Like i said before, as soon as you agree to follow rules of conduct, i will also. But, please, don't cherry pick my transgressions and ignore your own. There is a word for that.

RWG & bullshit - subject to deletion!

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-04-02 12:00:37 11731

MR 2009-04-02 11:56:18 11731

seth 2009-04-02 11:47:18 11731

source: MR falsely states above
There are no rules of argumentation.

Well certainly there are, and yes, Ad hominem is not allowed.

Well it is not true that these rules have been written by people who lost arguments. These rules have evolved over time. They hold a lot of commonality. LOL, your levity notwithstanding.

It is not true that you know whether people who lost arguments didn't want to write the rules differently. It is somewhat human nature to do so & certainly is one out of many motives. OTOH, all of this thread ignores my last question which in fact is the basis for this entire item & has yet to be answered.

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-04-02 15:39:07 11731

source: M above
Your other questions have been answered & posted. You may not like the answers but they are already there.

... nope, not at all. You have not dealt with the questions: "Are the tactics new and unusual?" and "are the tactics coercive?", in any reasonable way. In fact this whole tempest was apparently started by Obama saying to Peter DeFazio in a closed-door meeting "Don't think we're not keeping score, brother." So if DeFazio does not support the president, why should the president help him get reelected. Hardly "coercive"! That is politics as usual.

As for the excessive spending: well that is just your standard decocrat/republican ideological difference and not something that can be setteled here.

Nope! You refuse to read the content or the links. Anyone that says that spending the GDP, the entire economic output of a counry, particularly as large as we used to be has their head in their nether region.

<== Seth headed to Obamaland

Seth says

John Stuart nailed it

STEP 3 (SOCIALISM) - Silence the Opposition

About: karl rove says barack obama has moved chicago politics to the white house - wsj.com

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