The Middle East & Obama Talk

About: u.s. officials call iran missile launch successful - presidential politics | political news - foxnews.com

~~Nothing changes much in the Middle East as I recently suggested in summary:
The Middle East is probably modern mankind's most complicated situation to resolve & yet with the Golden Rule the situation is rather simple. (Most Wars are)  If as some claim all religions have the principle of the Golden Rule within them, then religion should be simple to rule out. A reframe like "It's not about religion" spread far & wide from the smooth lips of Obama should work.The problem should resolve to land allocation & socio-economics.  No religion should want dominate a people as that is against the Golden Rule. In the case of economics land should be apportioned according to the best use for the different cultures of the region for economic use & to satisfy the spiritual cultures of the region.  In fact, were the cultures of the region to implement threefoldness it would amaze the World as a reference example of how to solve a lot of mankind's problems. Perhaps the Middle East is an excellent place to begin the experiment as it has the most need & there are a lot of nomadic/displaced & unemployed people there & maybe a scarcity of land.
[from item 7085] preceded by 11938.   I admit that I don't understand the intractability of the Palestinian side of the equation since in that part of the world there is plenty of land, including Jordan & Lebanon, to settle in & create great states. OTOH, Israel was created out of the Palestinian territory in an area where they have millennial of history & religious attachments.
~
How do you compromise the alternatives  of life & death? That is the question.
Where's the so-called "Common Ground"?
~

Tags

  1. middle east
  2. palestinian state
  3. israel

Comments


Mark de LA says
Rachel Abrams
source: ... So, after a brief interruption during which George W. Bush reversed generations of American policy and put pressure on the Palestinians before making demands of the Israelis, it’s back to business as usual for U.S.-Israel relations. What happened at yesterday’s meeting between Bibi Netanyahu and Barack Obama was no more than a return to the U.S. policy of pressing Israel to endanger herself for the sake of whichever “strategic interest” happens to be paramount at the moment--today it is our diplomatic opening to Iran that may be imperiled by a lack of progress on the establishment of a Palestinian state--and, of course, that ever-desirable, always-elusive siren, “peace.” Put another way, you, Israel, can have peace as soon as you agree to diminish yourself to a helplessly undefended and vulnerable entity, whether by ceding land or conceding on a divided Jerusalem or acceding to the “right of return” of Arabs displaced after losing the war they launched against you in 1948--and we, America, can have good relations with sheikhs and mullahs who hate you only slightly more than they hate us.
 
...Anyone understant Obama's strategy distinct from all those past attempts of Carter,Clinton, Bush & the like?


Mark de LA says
roadmaps
to
illusion


Mark de LA says
From WND, which is decidedly pro Israel & pro Christian comes this article with a bunch of references at the bottom:

source: ...
How Condi Rice may have tied Netanyahu's hands - Ensured talks would begin with offer of most of West Bank, parts of Jerusalem

ibid: ...
While Olmert's non-finalized decisions during negotiations are not binding for the next prime minister, documents noting agreements during previous Israeli-Palestinian negotiations have been used – at times as starting points – in subsequent talks.
... it is an interesting tactic to force the so-called negotiations to move forwards rather than backwards.  OTOH, way back with Bill Clinton in Camp David, I think, there was an offer from the Israelis to give the Palestinians just about everything they wanted and Yasser Arafat turned them down & started or re-started the Second Intifada.  Apparently there is something to be gained by the Palestinian terrorists by remaining in a constant state of war.


Mark de LA says
More Rachel Abrams in her blog:

Wouldn’t it be a miracle? I’m wondering, though, how he will approach the equally intractable problem of Arab Jew-hatred. Anyone looking at a map of the Middle East cannot miss the fact that Israel, at 10,000 square miles, is less than one third the size of her next largest neighbor, Jordan (34,495) one seventh the size of Syria (71,498), one thirty-ninth the size of Egypt (387,000), one seventy-sixth the size of Saudi Arabia (756,985). (Okay, it’s true that Lebanon--even including the part occupied by Syria--is less than half Israel’s size, but that’s for another day.)

It helps to have a visual:

middleeast.bmp

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-05-23 10:42:40 11976
source: MR above
How do you compromise the alternatives  of life & death? That is the question. Where's the so-called "Common Ground"?
That is precisely the wrong question.  The zero sum game is my-land or your-land, not life or death.  The common ground is that both sides are tired of all the killing and want to prosper instead.   And reducing the complex problem to a binary choice will not give us insight into the solution.
You have some parties like Hamas & Iran that put the  death of Israel as their primary goal - I didn't put it that way. If it were just land then why didn't Yasser Arafat accept & proceed to the final solution?
Simply put, until one side has victory over the other I predict there will not be a final solution or any kind of peace.


Mark de LA says
seth 2009-05-23 10:42:40 11976
source: MR above
How do you compromise the alternatives  of life & death? That is the question. Where's the so-called "Common Ground"?
That is precisely the wrong question.  The zero sum game is my-land or your-land, not life or death.  The common ground is that both sides are tired of all the killing and want to prosper instead.   And reducing the complex problem to a binary choice will not give us insight into the solution.
You should also read or re-read Rachel Abrams blog above (especially the part about of Jew-hatred) before you reframe the problem to just land.


Mark de LA says
seth 2009-05-24 10:57:10 11976
source: MR above
If it were just land then why didn't Yasser Arafat accept & proceed to the final solution?
I don't know ... research your history and justify your assertion.  My recollection is that Afrafat did come to a peace deal, but the neither side could deliver on the agreements:  Arafat could not control the radical Palestinians, and Jewish settlements continued to grow.
My research says that Arafat was simply a terrorist & didn't want to lose his day job if peace broke out. He had more to gain as terrorist-in-chief than he had to gain by having to solve the real problems of the Palistinians vis-a-vis employment & commerce & real improvements in their daily lives. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-05-24 11:02:19 11976
source: MR above
Simply put, until one side has victory over the other I predict there will not be a final solution or any kind of peace.
Wow, the ultimate belief in a zero sum game ... we rarely see that.  Mark there is no victory here, neither side can achieve it.  The only victory is when the two people can learn to live in peace.
You can't prove your assertions & mine is only a prediction. I won't be alive to gloat over the prediction or show my sadness that it is true. The odds on your side are only slightly better or worse.


Mark de LA says
seth 2009-05-24 11:17:04 11976
source: MR above
You should also read or re-read Rachel Abrams blog above (especially the part about of Jew-hatred) before you reframe the problem to just land.

I don't need to read a blog to know that Jews are hated.  On the other side of this hatred, i also know that there are also Jews who are told by their faith Israel is their land of milk and honey and they have some God given right to it, so they build their settlements on that land, notwithstanding that it has been ceded by agreements to the other side. There is also the heavy hand of the IDf oppression fueling that hatred - all of course in the name of secruity.  There are two sides to this "hatred" and one should not be examined in isolation from the other.
Read the blog it is a good perspective - there's more to it than just the hatred exposition. You OTOH are mixed up by your moral equivalence delusions. The UN gave Israel their homeland (whether God was in the picture or not). The Palestinians fought to change that & lost. IMHO, there is some justification for the Palestinians to be punished for starting that war by losing some property. However there is no justification that they should gain more than what the UN resolution provided. 


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