Is this really the kind of political dialogue we want in this country?
SEE THEM SCREAM:
Protester Shouts Down Obamacare in Ohio...
Crowd Explodes When Sen. Specter Urges We 'Do This Fast'...
UPRISING BACK HOME: Constituents Make Congressman Sweat...
TOWN HALLS TURN TO 'TOWN HELLS'...

"Be disruptive early and often. You need to rock the boat early in the rep’s presentation. Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early. If he blames Bush for something or offers other excuses -- call him on it, yell back and have someone else tallow-up with a shout-out. Don't carryon and make a scene - just short intemlittent shout outs. The purpose is to make him uneasy early on and set the tone for the hall as clearly infonnal, and free-wheeling. It will also embolden others who agree with us to call out and challenge with tough questions. The goal is to rattle him…stand up and shout out. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions."
Is this really the kind of political dialogue we want in this country?
Steven Pearlstei says it more eloquently than i can: The recent attacks by Republican leaders and their ideological fellow-travelers on the effort to reform the health-care system have been so misleading, so disingenuous, that they could only spring from a cynical effort to gain partisan political advantage. By poisoning the political well, they've given up any pretense of being the loyal opposition. They've become political terrorists, willing to say or do anything to prevent the country from reaching a consensus on one of its most serious domestic problems.
Tags
- drudge
- tea parties
- anti health care
- astroturf
- steven pearlstein
- selective spending
- political dialogue
- violence political
- teabaggers
- twisting words
Comments
Aug. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Representative Tom Perriello said he was approached by two senior citizens who were trembling with fear. The source of their terror, he said, was their belief that President Barack Obama supports euthanasia for the elderly.
The Virginia Democrat said the two constituents were clutching a leaflet from a religious group that purported to be a copy of Obama’s health-care plan. It claimed the overhaul “would pull the plug and decide a 24-year-old’s life was important and that an 85-year-old’s wasn’t,” Perriello said.





The recent attacks by Republican leaders and their ideological fellow-travelers on the effort to reform the health-care system have been so misleading, so disingenuous, that they could only spring from a cynical effort to gain partisan political advantage. By poisoning the political well, they've given up any pretense of being the loyal opposition. They've become political terrorists, willing to say or do anything to prevent the country from reaching a consensus on one of its most serious domestic problems.
Asked about the breakout of boisterous and occasionally violent protests at Democratic town hall events throughout the country, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs declared that the demonstrators were showing less civility and manners than his six-year-old daughter.
"Behave yourselves like your mom would probably tell you to do," Gibbs said when asked what piece of advice he would give to the demonstrators.
But it wasn't all fun and games for the Obama spokesman. Pressed on the analogies between Obama and Hitler that conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh made during Thursday's program, Gibbs' voice turned stern.
"I know the president feels strongly that we can discuss these issues without personally maligning... that we are doing so in a way that respects the dignity of each individual," he said. "I think anytime you make references to what happened in Germany in the 30's and 40's, I think you are talking about an event that has no equivalent. And I think anytime anyone ventures to compare anything to that, they are on thin ice, and it is best not employed."
"But I think what the most important thing is, is that we can have a discussion in our democracy about where we want to go," he added. "The president strongly believes we can do so without yelling at each other, pushing at each other or degrading each other. We have seen some stuff, I mentioned it a week ago, we have all seen imagery that just shocks and surprises us and I think the best thing to do is just take that temperature down a bit."
U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor, the focus of tumultuous reaction at a town hall meeting Thursday night, said in an interview this morning that the event has strengthened her conviction to support health care reform.
"It has strengthened my resolve to stand up for families and seniors," Castor said. "Floridians are bearing a great burden in health care costs, more than almost any other state."
"A healthy debate is good, but the rude behavior is not helpful," she said. "I think it backfires. The response we're receiving today is pretty overwhelming to speak up for families and bring down the cost of health care."
Castor said her office is receiving "hundreds" of calls and e-mails in support of her stand.
Asked about whether she considers the protests at the event Thursday night to be a genuine expression of grassroots opposition or, as some Democrats have charged, manufactured by opponents, Castor didn't respond directly.
"Anyone's welcome to attend a community event, and I welcome a healthy debate," she said.
Prior to the event Thursday, she had told reporters she considered some of the protests erupting at town hall forums on the topic to be genuine and some to be the result of political organizing inspired by health insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
Castor said broadcast commentators Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck had both mentioned the Tampa event on their shows, urging listeners or viewers to attend.
Castor also said she's sure the reform bill will pass: "We're going to fight through the naysayers [and pass the bill], and it will not add to the deficit."


Btw, the other side sending in union thugs is just as bad ... the one does not justify the other.




... but this one is funny











With moveon.org in the mix apparently biting off a finger is in your political dialogue!

There were around 150 supporters of health care reform present on the northeast corner of Lynn Road and Hillcrest in Thousand Oaks. I was one of them. To get to that corner, we had to park in the Oaks Mall parking lot, walk to the light, cross a small thruway and then cross Hillcrest, which is a very large street.[photo here looking across to those opposed, posted in real time before the incident].
In order to get from the parking lot to the vigil, we were required to walk through the group of people opposed to health care reform. As you can see in the photo, they were originally staged right before the crosswalk to the thruway, so there was no way to avoid walking through their group.
The mood on our side of the street was passionate, happy, and dedicated. There were no violent words spoken. For the most part, we were supported loudly by passers-by, who honked their horns and waved their support. When someone passed by who disagreed, we actually had conversations with them while they waited for the light.
To be clear here: There were no threats, no dark moods, and there was no mob. I repeat, there was no mob. We were peaceful people holding candles and signs.
One petite woman was also handing out single payer flyers. She was passionate about it, but not rude, not mean, always smiled, and simply offered the flyer. At some point, she crossed back over (she may have run out of her flyer supply. I don’t know for sure. But she was not in any way confrontational.)
All of a sudden, I saw a very tall man in an orange shirt (yes, he is in the photo I linked you to) confront her, verbally at first. Her back was to the thruway, and he was shooing her, approaching her, speaking to her in a very aggressive fashion (observation from body language only) and waving his arms in a shooing motion. With each step she took back, he took one forward, shooing her more. From where I was, it appeared as though he were telling her to get on her own side of the street, and backing it up with a very clear physical threat. Even from where I stood, it chilled me. I pointed it out to others and called out for anyone with a video camera to aim it over there. (I had a small Nikon cam with me that does video, but it would have been useless in that light.)
Ultimately, she did cross the street and come back over to our side.
Several minutes later, there was another altercation. My best recollection is that this man saw what happened to the woman and reacted to it. I cannot say with certainty where he was when he saw it — he may have arrived and was navigating his way through that group, or he may have crossed the street to defend her. He was confronted by the same man. I could tell from where I was that the man was belligerent, angry, and confrontational.
The man in the orange shirt hit the pro-reform guy (I’m going to call him PR Guy just to keep the players straight). Hard. ( tweeted in real time) He punched him in the face, knocked him to the ground and into that thruway. As you can see from the photo, cars drive straight through that without stopping. The pro-reform guy could have been run over. He got up, tried to get back up on the curb, but Orange Shirt guy was in his face. Finger in his face, PR Guy standing, steps up to the curb, and there’s a scuffle. Orange shirt seemed to have PR Guy in a hold, but again, I was across the street, so won’t state that as absolute fact. Next thing I see is PR Guy’s hat being tossed into the street, both yelling at one another, then Orange shirt walks away, PR Guy picks up hat and crosses to our side.
When he gets to our side, he tells a story in one sentence: “He punched me hard, straight in the face, so I bit his finger off.”
Honestly, I thought he was exaggerating. I guess he wasn’t.
I’ve given this report to the police along with my photos. I am not heralding anyone as a hero here. I certainly do not celebrate the idea of anyone biting anyone else, no matter what the reason. However, there is no question that Orange Shirt guy was aching to fight, was willing to pick a fight, and certainly didn’t care who he fought with. He chose people who were shorter than he, and he used his voice, his body, his body language and his height to intimidate them.
Don’t be fooled by reports ginning up sympathy for that 65-year old guy or worse yet, reports characterizing him as a senior citizen. He was aggressive and ready to mix it up.
I’ll tell you more about the other hour and 15 minutes of peace, wonderful people, and stories in another post. This one is for the benefit of those who might want to hear a different side of what is sure to hit the air as a one-sided story of liberals gone wild. There were no liberals gone wild, nor were there hordes of conservatives behaving badly. There were 9 or 10 people on one corner, 150-200 on the other, and two men who, regardless of their politics, behaved quite badly.
Update: LA Times has it a bit wrong. So does KTLA.
The alleged crime is a serious one:
"It's considered a mayhem which is the removal of an appendage from a human," said Norris of the Ventura County Sheriff's Department. "The crime is punishable by imprisonment for 2, 4, or 8 years."
Scott Bush, an Obama critic who was standing next to Rice when the incident happened, said critics and supporters of Obama had had face-to-face, calm debates throughout the night without incident until the suspect in the biting crossed the street to confront critics. Of Rice's behavior, he said:
"He didn't even have a sign. He was just there to be a part of things. He's a nice man."
The suspect yelled at the group, "Are you for the public option?" When the crowd answered, "no," Bush said he singled out Rice, one of the smaller men in the group, coming at him and yelling, "You're an idiot, you're an idiot!"
"I don’t think he had any intentions whatsoever of talking," said Rice, who "popped him in the nose" when he got close to his face.
Bush called Rice's move "defensive." Bush said the incident became a scuffle, the public-option supporter pulled Rice into the street, and it was over very quickly after that. During the struggle, Rice said his finger ended up in the suspect's mouth, and it was bitten off.
"William grabbed his hand and said, 'Oh, he bit my finger off," Bush said. "It was clear that the end of his finger was bitten off. It was a stump."















* Slash hundreds of billions from Medicare spending, largely by lowering reimbursement rates to doctors and hospitals for patient care.
If a hospital gets less money for each MRI, it will do fewer of them. If a surgeon gets paid less for a heart bypass on a Medicare patient, he’ll perform them more rarely. These facts of the marketplace are not only inevitable consequences of Obama’s cuts but are also its intended consequence. Without them, his savings will prove illusory.

A House Democratic aide noted that the HHS actuaries didn't take into account changes to the Medicare program in that assessment. The aide said that such changes--including cuts to the Medicare Advantage program and recommendations for overhauling Medicare's payment system--would have a greater impact on slowing cost growth than wellness programs or administrative simplifications.
The aide said it shouldn't be surprising that overall health spending would go up under the bill. "Nobody has ever tried to claim that we can bring 35 million more people into the system, and not spend more to do it," the aide said.


Yep that is the fear which you have bought into. But it need not go down that way. Nor, as has been acknowledged, is that in this legislation. My suggestion for you and the politicians obstructing improvement to the health care delivery system in America, is to rationally and effectively engage in the conversation such that what you fear does not happen, and so that the current unfair rationing is stopped.









https://twitter.com/borowitzreport/status/24131476429737984

Im not into all that inevitable blame game either. But I still laughed when I read the tweet.
"This is a terrible politicization of a tragedy," former Palin aide Rebecca Monsour told the newspaper. "We don't know (the shooter's) motive. It doesn't seem like he was motivated by a political ideology. Craziness is not an ideology."


See Also
- Thought about: #OccupyYourOwnBrain - comment 67165 with 117 viewings related by tag "SelectiveSpending".
- Thought Bitcoin as a solution with 22 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Money as a Vote - SELECTIVE SPENDING with 20 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Money as a Vote - Selective Spending - Update with 18 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Today There is no Source for the Unvarnished NEWS ! with 9 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought MO Kool-Aid References with 7 viewings related by tag "tea parties".
- Thought I just noticed Google's recommended stories with 5 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Spritless Airlines Facebook boycott with 5 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Who is OUT OF TOUCH with real people? with 4 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Wonderful Crisis NOT Going to Waste, eh? with 4 viewings related by tag "violence political".
- Thought Eating $#!+ - Part II (carnivores behaving) with 4 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought The next step in Selective Spending with 3 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought I will spend my $$ elsewhere than with these celebs with 3 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Political Campaigns, Straw men, and Hyocracy with 3 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought News in the Light of What's Published with 2 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought Conscious Economics with 2 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought ls Al Gore Bipolar ? with 2 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought Get them While They are Young with 2 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Obamma's Momma's Momma with 2 viewings related by tag "twisting words".
- Thought You People with 2 viewings related by tag "twisting words".
- Thought Surprising Build Up In Centrifuges At Natanz with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought Things to watch about your Internet with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Evan Thomas Video - Obama is sort of a god with 0 viewings related by tag "twisting words".
- Thought RE: RateMyCop.com with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought about: wonkette : teabaggers scared to death of being confused with negro protesters with 0 viewings related by tag "tea parties".
- Thought New Logo for ABC (State Media) with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought An interesting Company with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought M$M upset at the Drudge Effect with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought Hyperpartisan Headlines with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought Obama the Tragedy & Comedy POTUS with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought Phony Celebrity Environmentalists with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Don't Invest in Terror with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought The Anticipation of SPIN is truly Delicious on Obamacare Decision with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought about: Hi, Im a Tea-Partier with 0 viewings related by tag "tea parties".
- Thought about: Report Documents ExxonMobil's Tobacco-like Disinformation Campaign on Global Warming Science with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought BerkShares & other private money with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Life Is Sublime with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought Vote for Life not Ghouls In November! with 0 viewings related by tag "selective spending".
- Thought We Hoped It Would Change! with 0 viewings related by tag "twisting words".
- Thought Sidetracked on Chicken ? with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".
- Thought Explaining Headlines with 0 viewings related by tag "drudge".