Obstructed dialogue at fastblogit ...

  I'll use this item to make comments on the misinformation being propagated on some fastblogit blogs.  You are in error, if you think that you can restrict the flow of information here at fastblogit to have only your opinions dominate.

My intentions in spencing time with reading and commenting on items, is to practice clear headed thinking.  I like to mix my thoughts with others and thereby improve on them.  Having fun and laughing is great too - when things are actually funny. I do it to increase my awareness of what is happening.  Mean spirited, manipulative, pig headed, and intellectually dishonest behavior is disgusting.  It does not, in any way, increase awareness. It is a waste of time. Life is too precious to waste it on such negativity.

So here is to all the clear, respectful, and tolerant thinking which might flourish at fastblogit!  All else will eventually die out because it carries the seeds of its own destruction.

Tags

  1. dialogue
  2. whole foods
  3. cc

Comments


Seth says
MR 2009-08-16 11:09:21 12398
seth 2009-08-15 16:47:22 12398
MR 2009-08-15 15:54:53 12398
Mine are a lot more detailed than Obama's and make more sense.
Well i admit those references i cited don't give all the details that we know are in Obama's plan.  For example Obama has talked many times about the insurance exchange including the public option; but that is not explicitly listed in the plan.  His plan does address in specific detail restrictions under which insurance companies in the exchange must operate.  It is clear to me that these restrictions will solve many of the problems people have with health insurance. What is  unclear, however, is how the skyrocketing costs of medical care will be decreased.  I am unconvinced that the measures he has mentioned will comnpletely do the job.  I would like to see a clarification of the cost cutting measures and some kind of reasonable proof that they will have the desired effect.

My complaint with your "plan" is that i can't find anything in it that can be done today.  Take #1 and #2 for example.  Of course we want an abundance of doctors and hospitals.  But how do we get them?  Where is the plan  to create the abundance?  What do we do today to increase the abundance?  Those questions are not answered in your plan.
I won't discuss my plan under the heading of "obstructed dialogue". Cutting taxes on all health related industries can be done almost with the stroke of a pen today. That will create an abundance of resources which must be channeled into making more doctors & hospitals. It will show faster results than the mega-bureaucracy Obama wants to create.  I would like to see somewhere on whitehouse.gov a page that says "this is my plan & what's in it"; not generalities derived from campaign speeches.

Well actually, now that i think about it, there is no shortage of doctors and medical services, except perhaps in rural areas.  Cutting taxes in general on health related industries is just a big give away to a sector of the economy that does not need it.  It will do nothing to improve the affordability of medical services to the general public.  What's more it is not even  possible in today's political climate.

Sure, i agree, it would be nice to have a detailed administration plan to analyze.  But apparently strategists with more experience in such matters have determined such a heavy handed approach to congress would not improve the likelihood of getting them to  actually pass a bill.

Seth says
source:  my question on the Political Irony blog
  1. Why can not co-ops be setup to be just as robust as a public option?

    Monday, August 17, 2009 at 10:21 am | Permalink
...

Seth says
MR 2009-08-17 09:27:48 12398
It is a good thing you usually write from the group funnypages.  More competition & more availability brings prices down, not more big government spending which brings the prices up.  Medicare created such a bubble which prolly will never break. Add Obamacare and prices will rise.  Add more of other people's money & prices will rise. The Obami & their leader should take a course in econ 101. If there is plenty of healthcare doctors & nurses then why would rationing ever be considered?
Covering more people should increase the demand for health care which is why there should be  provisions in the bill to increase capacity in certain critical areas.  For example there are incentives to increase general practitioners.  That is your basic demand side pump.

And, yes, i do understand the supply side pump as you have applied it to health care:  decreasing taxes means more resources go into health care, which increases the supply, which decreases price, which should increase the demand at that lower price. 

Neither side always works as it was intended.  The devil is in the details and in what is politically feasible at this particular time in history.  Unfortunately for the supply side pump it basically lost the election.

Insurance companies do the rationing of health care in the current system; but they do so with regard to their bottom line and not with regard to supply.  At least the government can take supply into account with its policies.

Seth says
MR 2009-08-14 13:26:11 12379
Source: ... Town halls burst with Obama 'plants'
Campaign donors, health care lobbyist, SEIU members, fake doctor


...
also Obma talks more than he listens:
Source: ... A look at President Obama's health care "town hall" Tuesday in Portsmouth, N.H., shows the president out-spoke his audience by a margin of nearly 9-to-1 -- hardly the kind of even-handed exchange of ideas that marked the town meetings of colonial America. 
...

  I think that, based upon the coverage before the Obama events,  many people expected to see the same angry citizens.  That it did not happen was a surprise.  I watched both town hall meetings, the one in New Hampshire and the one in Montana.  It is  hard not to be struck by the dramatic difference between them and the events  that the M$M have chosen to run again and again.  Soit is reasonable to ask has Obama  stacked the deck, or has the M$M has cherry picked their coverage to be more entertaining?  Or is it a mix of both?  

Just a note on methods of answering questions.  If you cherry pick examples, as has WND, it is necessary to pick from both sides of the question.  Otherwis it is not answering the question - it is proffering an opinion - it is, as it were, stacking the deck.

Seth says
According to this MR should change the title of 12393  ...
source: CEO John Mackey's Original "Health Care Reform" article.
In answer to President Obama’s invitation to all Americans to put forward constructive ideas for reforming our health care system, I wrote this Op/Ed piece called simply “Health Care Reform.” An editor at the Journal rewrote the headline to call it “Whole Foods Alternative to Obamacare,” which led to antagonistic feelings by many. That was not my intention - in fact, I do not mention the President at all in this piece.

My own comments on Mackey's piece are as follows ...
  1. "high deductible with personal health savings accounts" is a good idea, but may be too complicated to implement on a federal level.
  2. Leveling the playing field for tax is a good idea too.  This is basically McCain's republican proposal from the campaign.  The problem with it is that it raises taxes across the board.
  3. "insurance can compete across state lines".  I believe that is inherent in the Obama insurance exchange. 
  4. "Repeal all government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover.  These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance many billions of dollars."  Actually his second sentence is false.  By covering more people the risk of preexisting conditions is spread over the entire population - the overall average cost goes down, and only increases when compared with a pool of healthy people.  Looking at the cost of health insurance from the point of view healthy people is twisted.  The mandates regarding coverage are one of the biggest features of the Obama plan.  They solve one of the biggest problems with health insurance.
  5. "Enact tort reform"  Yes of course, see my 11238
  6. Seems to me that standardizing nomenclature for billing would be a good idea, but adding more itemization may just add to the paper work.
  7. Yes but Mackey did not give enough details to even form an opinion here as to what needs to be reformed to keep medicare solvent.
  8. Charity through IRS forms.  I dont know, it might work.
source: Mackey
A careful reading of both The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution will not reveal any intrinsic right to health care, food or shelter, because there isn’t any. This “right” has never existed in America.
It's not a matter of whether it is a intrinsic right or not.  It is a right in this country if we, through our elected officials,  say it is a right.  A better question is whether it is time for it to become a right.  An even better question is whether there is a need for it to become a right.
source: Mackey
Rather than increase governmental spending  ...
That phrase contains an embedded assumption which is false.  Most of the increased spending is not comming from  the government.  It is we the people who will be collectively increasing our health care spending.  The Obama plan will mean that many more people are going to be paying monthly health care premiums.  That is majority of the extra cost.  It is an error to think that most of the increased spending is coming from taxes or the deficit.

Seth says
MR 2009-08-15 10:02:38 12398
Not personal. The best revenge is stay healthy. If the government did not steal money from me for taxes I would have enough saved to handle any emergency. I will suffer the consequences otherwise. You who like to spend other people's money come buy me a 64 inch flat screen HDTV out of your own pocket. That's cheaper than one year's taxes to support Obamacare. Your children will pay for it for generations.
If you have a heart attack, and are unlucky enough to survive it, you will end up in the emergency ward of a hospital and the rest of us will pay for it.   Is that what you call being responsible for your own life?  I call that being irresponsible and avoiding the real issue. 

Seth says
MR 2009-08-15 12:10:12 12398
seth 2009-08-15 10:47:30 12398
source: MR
My plan is the best.
Unfortunately your plan is no plan at all.  It is a list of 9 wishes for how you want things to be. A plan would have a way to get from here to there.   Do you also write a list of things you want to eat for dinner?  Do they show up on your table?
Unfortunately Obama doesn't have a plan of his own. All he has done is delegate to Pelosi & the Democrats in Congress (that way he won't be responsible for the outcome). ..
This is not true.  See his specifications to Congress here and especially the consumer protection measures here.  He has also specified many times his preferences for funding the bill and has specified that he will not accept any bill which is not paid for.  He and his staff have been in constant negotiation with the relevant committees as they mark up the bills.  Obviously Congress writes the actual legislation that job has already been delegated to congress by the constitution. 

Seth says


Some people are boycotting Whole Foods because of it's CEO criticizing Obama's health care proposals.   Personally i think that is ridiculous!  He came up with some good ideas. The article reminds me, i really need to culture a taste for arugula.

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-08-15 10:09:16 12398
MR 2009-08-15 10:02:38 12398
Not personal. The best revenge is stay healthy. If the government did not steal money from me for taxes I would have enough saved to handle any emergency. I will suffer the consequences otherwise. You who like to spend other people's money come buy me a 64 inch flat screen HDTV out of your own pocket. That's cheaper than one year's taxes to support Obamacare. Your children will pay for it for generations.
If you have a heart attack, and are unlucky enough to survive it, you will end up in the emergency ward of a hospital and the rest of us will pay for it.   Is that what you call being responsible for your own life?  I call that being irresponsible and avoiding the real issue. 
It is less costly to the system than the overhead of the bureaucracy of Obamacare. My plan is the best. Remove lawyers & money from the entire domain of medicine & health. First by repealing taxation & building more facilities then follow the rest of Mark's Plan.
Don't presume to know my karma on health.

Seth says
source: MR
My plan is the best.
Unfortunately your plan is no plan at all.  It is a list of 9 wishes for how you want things to be. A plan would have a way to get from here to there.   Do you also write a list of things you want to eat for dinner?  Do they show up on your table?

Seth says

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