This is outrageous!

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail;
Failure to Comply, 5 Years in Prison...

Final vote could be delayed Sunday or beyond...
~
From the promise of lowering health care costs to going to jail & fined while not getting any lowered costs for several years + a tax increase + bankrupting the USA:
I'm wondering how come you folks are not outrageously offended by this nonsense.  How many back room deals, not published before the votes are cast, are going to end up in the bills bought with earmarks buying off various of your representatives with your tax increases? 
~

Tags

  1. obamacare
  2. health care
  3. pelosicare
  4. dystopia

Comments


Mark de LA says
What Obamacare looks like so far, almost validating something you wrote above, is a mandated market for the insurance companies guaranteed by the taxpayer & taxes or the government printing money.  Now who voted for that! Get out the tar & feathers & use it on them. The cartoon show King of the Hill came up with a nice phrase last night en passant - ask yourself the question What would a monkey do?


Mark de LA says
Just what I expected!  Liberal bait & switch.  Instead of lowering rates, rates will rise. Instead of voluntary we get mandatory with draconian penalties. Instead of more health care we get less health care. Instead of more facilities driving down the cost of health care we will get less. Instead of a free market balance we get a Big Government Bureaucracy. Instead of a win for we the people we get a Giant Putrid win for the Witch of the House!

It's time to begin thinking of impeaching Congress for fiscal mismanagement.


Seth says
M 2009-11-10 11:53:12 12833
~Obama on jail & fines in the health care bill (HR
ABCNews (Blog): ... “I think the general broad principle is simply that people who are paying for their health insurance aren't subsidizing folks who simply choose not to until they get sick and then suddenly they expect free health insurance.  That's -- that's basic concept of responsibility that I think most Americans abide by,” Mr. Obama said, “penalties are appropriate for people who try to free ride the system and force others to pay for their health insurance.”
...the difference, Mr. President, is that driving is a privilege licensed by the state & you don't have insurance you can't drive in most states.  Mr. President, living is not your province, health care is a choice. You don't have to get health care you can let your system repair itself or not.  BTW, as far as free rides & gaming the system, you Mr. President have never had a real job beyond living off the state & other people's money - tell us about what it's like  some more!  Just in case you think being a lawyer is a real job you should reflect that a lawyer lives off of other people's misery & creates nothing except laws.  Notice that lawyers are protected from tort reform in the house bill.

Then according to your train of though, when you get ill and don't have insurance, you should not have access to any free services ... no emergency room unless you can pay in cash up front.  Are you willing to turn away people at the emergency room?  Are you willing to not give care without checking for ability to pay?

Seth says
M 2009-11-09 04:05:40 12833
seth 2009-11-07 18:18:49 12833
Sight unseen i will bet anything that characterization is fallacious.
So if it is true, you will campaign against the bill?
No.  At best it is a characterization of the worst case scenario that a could could impose.  The way this legislation is structured, you do need biting consequences for those who irresponsibly do not get coverage even though they can afford it.   Personally i would have favored the approach that Obama campaigned on which was to put the emphasis on lowering rates to make them attractively affordable to everyone without penalties.  This approach looks more like legislation that written by the insurance companies just to get them more customers. 

Mark de LA says
MKH gives a nice analysis of the Pelosi fairness of jail for not paying fines for healthcare in this blog. The whole thing is framed such that the IRS is in charge & you can go to jail if you don't pay the IRS!  The fact that the IRS is in the middle of the game is also outrageous! Pretty soon I suspect that the IRS will also be auditing your carbon footprint as well as how much you weigh.


Mark de LA says
Wikipedia on Dystopia: ...
The first known use of dystopian, as recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), is a speech given before the British House of Commons by John Stuart Mill in 1868, in which, Mill stated: "It is, perhaps, too complimentary to call them Utopians, they ought rather to be called dys-topians, or caco-topians. What is commonly called Utopian is something too good to be practicable; but what they appear to favour is too bad to be practicable."
...
...

Seth says
Well i think your annual return to the IRS is the perfect place to put the consequences of not being responsible for your own health care.  Where would you put it? 

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-11-13 08:07:02 12833
Well i think your annual return to the IRS is the perfect place to put the consequences of not being responsible for your own health care.  Where would you put it? 
Are you going to think it's a good place to put your weight too? How about your automobile insurance? Legal insurance? What about average number of bowel movements per day?  Thing is, a statist would think that.  Someone who believes in freedom & liberty does not want the state or feds into everything an individual does!  As a matter of fact I can be responsible for my own health care by buying a private insurance policy that covers the things I want covered. My health is none of your business! Move in the direction of free health care by making enough facilities available of diverse nature to include any member of the population. Don't just make the federal bureaucracy richer along with the lawyers & insurance companies while not increasing the supply of health care - rationing will ultimately result. Health care s/b free of economics.


Mark de LA says
~for those who need a picture!


Seth says
M 2009-11-13 08:59:35 12833
seth 2009-11-13 08:07:02 12833
Well i think your annual return to the IRS is the perfect place to put the consequences of not being responsible for your own health care.  Where would you put it? 
Are you going to think it's a good place to put your weight too? How about your automobile insurance? Legal insurance? What about average number of bowel movements per day?  Thing is, a statist would think that.  Someone who believes in freedom & liberty does not want the state or feds into everything an individual does!  As a matter of fact I can be responsible for my own health care by buying a private insurance policy that covers the things I want covered. My health is none of your business! Move in the direction of free health care by making enough facilities available of diverse nature to include any member of the population. Don't just make the federal bureaucracy richer along with the lawyers & insurance companies while not increasing the supply of health care - rationing will ultimately result. Health care s/b free of economics.

Again you refused to deal with the real matter at hand.  If you assume that there must be consequences for not having health insurance, then what is the most practical place to impose the consequences?   All i pose is question: where is a better place to check for compliance

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-11-13 11:43:51 12833
-sbip- Seth bedazzled by Obama & Congress
Again you refused to deal with the real matter at hand.  If you assume that there must be consequences for not having health insurance, then what is the most practical place to impose the consequences?   All i pose is question: where is a better place to check for compliance
Again you refuse to deal with the real matter at hand which ,your assumption being false, is the unconstitutionality of mandatory health insurance.  Those who have no jobs & no income have no filings with the IRS - so no insurance?   The best place to validate insurance is at the point of use at the doctor, hospital or emergency room. Most of those places should already be hooked in to central databases (ugg!).  How are you going to validate whether an individual is a legal resident or an illegal alien?  (no IRS records).  Compliance is a concept best savored in Iran, China & Russia - not the free people of the United States. There is a whole bunch of shit in the HR 3962 about native Americans. Do they have to comply? Until all this is worked out & tested there should be no hurry to pass a bill except by those totalitarian stateists who need it now.


Mark de LA says
     Someone last night opined that the reason the Health Care Bill (probably HR3962) is so large & hard to understand is that it's not about delivering more health care, but crafting a bill that Congress can pass & the President sign with that title on it.
~~~
     My bill is much simpler & is about more health care.  Please note that the 1.2 trillion$$$ wasted on bureaucracy can be better spent & actually deliver more health care. It works out to a little under $4000 per person in the US. Create a Health Savings Account with some restrictions for each person in the US - the account can only be spent on health care narrowly defined (no lap dances or abortions). Secondly, untax everything related to health care with the proviso that the money must be put back into making more health care available.  For example drug companys would have to put the taxes saved back into research & delivery of more drugs. Such corporations could not diversify outside of the health care industry. Nobody in the corporation can own stock outside of the health care industry. Such corporations boards of directors, governance must stand before the public with open books & disclose their associations with specific members of local, state & the federal government periodically  The idea is simple, requires much less government & bureaucracy & can be phased in in such a way that the light at the end of the tunnel is free health care for all. Perhaps some trading or pooling of a portion of the HSA's might be allowable to cover unhealthy people whose costs are well above the $4000 HSA, but the difference between an HSA & insurance is that the HSA is owned by the individual. Periodically unused HSA money can be withdrawn if not used as it should be able to gather interest like a savings account.

Mark de LA says
P.S (to my plan above) - The government can make up for the loss of all that tax revenue by all those savings they promised when they get rid of fraud & abuse & the health care system is overhauled.


Mark de LA says
PPS (to the above) :  If the government can spend with wild abandon then they can just as easily lose tax revenue with wild abandon - not a problem!


Mark de LA says
Conversation forked to thought 22309

See Also

  1. Thought A Market Driven Solution to Affordable Health Insurance with 505 viewings related by tag "HealthCare".
  2. Thought Alex Grey's performance art with 40 viewings related by tag "dystopia".
  3. Thought 222 years 1 month 6 days ago with 3 viewings related by tag "health care".
  4. Thought 1.47 TRILLION and RISING! with 2 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  5. Thought Obama Union Thugs with 2 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  6. Thought Co-op or COOPs ? with 2 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  7. Thought Take A Number - Obamacare with 2 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  8. Thought Some fact checks with 1 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  9. Thought OBAMACARE with 1 viewings related by tag "health care".
  10. Thought END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS ? with 1 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  11. Thought about: About Bush's new Helth Care Plan with 1 viewings related by tag "health care".
  12. Thought Reforming Health Care in the USA with 1 viewings related by tag "health care".
  13. Thought Flukes of Natural Order with 1 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  14. Thought Health Care Reform Rally in Seattle with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  15. Thought Obamacare - cartoon coverage with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  16. Thought The Cost of Health Insurance with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  17. Thought The Obamacare Fraud Train with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  18. Thought The Obama-Prompter with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  19. Thought M-coins, HC-coins & Bitcoins instead of healthcare with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  20. Thought The THRUST of it all with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  21. Thought about: The Obama Plan with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  22. Thought Freedom of CHOICE with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  23. Thought Obamacare Waivers with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  24. Thought WTF & beyond with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  25. Thought World's best healthcare badmouthed by a SICKO! with 0 viewings related by tag "healthcare".
  26. Thought A Healh Care Reform from the Senate Finance Comittee with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  27. Thought Joe Wilson was right with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  28. Thought Obama - Rhetoric of Thuggery & Con with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  29. Thought Obamacare with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  30. Thought Most Open, Huh? with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  31. Thought New Logo for ABC (State Media) with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  32. Thought The White House fights the people with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  33. Thought Fishy with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  34. Thought The Obamacare nanny state with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  35. Thought Cooperation Obama Style with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  36. Thought United States of Peloshivik with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  37. Thought A journey through the Bill to get an answer with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  38. Thought CSPAN-2 Live coverage on Health Care Debate with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  39. Thought Lower the Debate, eh? with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  40. Thought Slippery Slopes with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  41. Thought Magnitude, Proportionality & Purpose with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  42. Thought Insurance Takeover with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  43. Thought Transparency as thick as London Fog with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  44. Thought Obama feels Pissed on? with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  45. Thought Whats Up With Dat? with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  46. Thought Weighing Health Care Proposals with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  47. Thought 14 + Reasons why HR3200+ should be DOA (NOW HR3962) with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  48. Thought Shame on Obama or not? with 0 viewings related by tag "health care".
  49. Thought Cotton with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".
  50. Thought Republican Response to the latest Obama/Pelosi BS on Obamacare with 0 viewings related by tag "obamacare".