wonders what at minimum needs to happen for cyber molecules to circulate freely and stik to each other to meet our intentions


The initial idea of this was introduced here in 2002 under the name Stikey Cyber Molecules.


  1. scm
  2. goodrelations ontology
  3. ai
  4. smob
  5. sioc


Seth says
A mentograph of the good relations ontology

Seth says
Another potentially useful project is #smob and another useful ontology might be #sioc.  Lots of this stuff is starting to appear to me.  

Seth says
D 2010-06-13 12:31:46 13916
There are a log of undefined things in your paragraph like the word intent. You have a rather glorified way of saying that you found a two-seater bicycle on Craig'slist.  Right now there are no processes in the cloud except bots that gather more links for Google etc.  Your last sentence is very undefined. 

To be able to do the "ultimate match" we must attach statements of our intentions to descriptions of items.  For example:  { speaktomecatalog.com  gr:sell "Talking HD Radio" } might get matched with { Bozo Faust gr:seeks "Talking HD Radio" }. 

There certainly are processes in the cloud - one of the oldest protocols on the internet, email, requires background processes which happen without the user being present.  Another good example of background processes is Google alerts

My description of the project here is designed to seek the mininum change needed from what is happening already for these intentional molecules to start flowing.  To grok it, you may need to think outside of your usual box.

Seth says
D 2010-06-13 09:10:00 13916
As with Google & other aggregators, molecules of information don't just cluster & stick together - the user of the aggregators has to enter a search item explicit or implicit in the application. One has to answer the question: How is the eyeball going to interact with a cloud of sticky molecules?  Even Mother Nature uses charge, mass & energy to stick her shit together! What's yours? tags? RDF predicate calculus?
A person interacts with the cloud by sending out their own intentions in a molecule.  That molecule finds its matches and returns back to the sender with additional information attached.  All of that is already happening.  This morning i sent out a query to craigs list and got back this response.  I then emailed the seller and am waiting their answer.  In the cloud, molecules should be able to find each other by virtue of complementary vocabulary attached to the molecules.  Processess in the cloud, watch the flow of molecules go by and match up the complementary molecules and dispatch mutations of them back to their sources.

Seth says
this new api for access to semantic markup on a web page may be useful for this project.  the idea being that if a person described a want or a offer on the page, then sombody browsed to it and clicked a button on that page, it would form a stickey molecule about their intention to the item described on the page, and send it into the cloud to be matched up and satisfy some other intention.  Maybe the button would say something like "sell it to me now" or "i got one of these for you" ... a variation on the like button only more differentiated.

Si says
Great job glueing things together thus far Seth :)

you are certainly on the right lines imho, smob is rather good, sioc as you have noted is fantastic, it is one of the best and most versatile ontologies created so far, I personally use it for almost everything.

You are getting right to the bleeding edge now I must say, RDFa API is some fine work and close to defining a very nice API for us all to work with (although RDFa specific, would be nice to see it generic to RDF with RDFa specifics abstracted, and then further RDFa in DOM/Browser specifics abstracted above that).

As fro your final comments, you may well want to look in to payswarm [1] the openmarketplace [2] and specifically the recent open discussions about the two aforementioned [3] (a good discussion with Manu Sporny (RDFa API), Kinglsey Idehen (virtuoso) and Martin Hepp (good relations) kicks things off, going through to a chat about just what you are mentioning with Manu, Henry Story, Daniel Leston and myself.



[1] http://payswarm.com/
[2] http://openmarketplace.org/
[3] http://payswarm.com/community/meetings/

Si says
side point, if you have not seen it, then the Linked Data design issue from Tim Berners-Lee is key to this, http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html

and if you have seen it, you may be interested to re-read the section on Browsable Graphs, which mentions RDF Molecules :)

in fact, I would honestly suggest reading every single design issue you can find: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/

http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/RDFnot.html and this talk http://www.w3.org/2007/Talks/1211-whit-tbl/ (probably check them in reverse order, Talk first)

best as per usual, and keep up the good work,


C says
     It is true that I have been unable to find some things & people using Google search engine. That's much better odds than my own mind these days. OTOH, most of the things I have found within 5 seconds of the request via Google. One person it took nearly 2 years, but it was fastblogit which found him - someone who knew whom I was looking for responded to an old post. Otoh, re-coding the Internet is not likely going to improve those odds.  As the Internet gains more commerce such coding may boost sales & governments will tax more. I think some kind of AI app would be more interesting, although not likely to grow out of what you are talking about.
     I like your ability to get in there & utilize the social media.  I googled your name & found that there is someone else with your name that is more famous - your facebook did show up somewhere near the first page though! I did the same & got the same results for myself & couldn't even find me.
(I think I will go back to Zen instead!)

Seth says
C 2010-06-14 14:33:43 13916
I'm still wondering why your system is any better/worse than just googling for what I want to buy.  I already get a lot of extra email stimulated by vendors that I have patronized earlier on. 
I had hoped that some kind of CyberMind/AI was going to evolve with the sticky molecules or maybe something that would chase the connections, like DiscovertheNetworks does, of our politicians, union leaders & big business persons. 
The more complex the query the more precise we can access the information we want.  The more coded the information & data the easier it is to use automated systems to find things.  Beyond that - what?  Survivability depends upon some kind of a business model - hence Google, Facebook, YouTube & the del.icio.us & other social networks. Got one?

Have you ever not been able to find what you were looking for with a Google search?  These cyber molecule searches should find their niche on the high end where you are looking for a needle in the haystack.  And it allows you to connect to human experts because they can be seamlessly incorporated in your search. 

The business model i have chosen is not going after the advertising bucks.  Rather it would be funded by a percentage of the matches.  You might remember some of our initial discussions we had several years ago before you lost the wiki.   A person puts a budged and a time limit in the molecule, when the connection is made, the pay off flows back to reward the processes that contributed to the connection. 

Incidentally this is not something that i plan on programming myself.  It happens or not depending on open source contributions from the network. 

Seth says
C 2010-06-15 07:19:36 13916
seth 2010-06-15 06:48:00 13916
actually this is an AI app
I don't think I have to recode my brain to find things. OTOH, AI could stand for artificial ignorance. I think AI is an oxymoron for the most part.  The level of intelligence in the Internet is still dead intelligence.  Like books, it only resides in the reader - not the medium. 
BTW, I found this application while looking for something else related to the above.  It has a nice response time, & interface, but a low population of info.

I actually was thinking of doing an application like that which would visually allow you to crawl and expose social networks, but i opted for the stiky cyber molecules instead.  I don't agree with your conception of "internet is dead intelligence".  Your intelligence does not just reside in you, it is in what you do in your environment ... and you can do more and more on the internet each day.   Feeds like twitter are the internet starting to think.  It's all starting to come true.

Si says
search is an interesting thing.. in _real_ life it is always a last resource, but on the web it is the first point of call.

typically, we as humans, _find_ things in a way that relates very much to an old fashioned library index card; filter to ever narrower sections (like an R-Tree) then see if it is there. And the benefit is, you get a boolean results - it is either there or it is not - none of this searching nonsense. Again, in life that searching thing is the last thing we do, like when you check the room you left your keys in, then the places you common leave them, then where you have found them before, then, and only then, do you search.

hopefully we will see a return to FIND some day rather than SEARCH.

best as always,


Mark de LA says
Search is a process, find (or NOT find) is the result; computer lingo notwithstanding.

Seth says
Yeah, searching is frustrating  ... whereas finding is a lot of fun .   So the intelligent thing to do is to send out stickey  cyber molecules to do all the frustrating part ... after all computers aren't suppose to feel the frustrations.  Then we humans just get back the fun finding events.  

Seth says
The coming twitter annotations may  provide a good place to tap into the streme of molecules  ... look at the slides  ...

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