interdomain wiki references

One of the goals of this system is to integrate with items flowing in internet feeds.  The references in these items are intended to dereferenceable regardless of where they are displayed or processed.  Primarialy the references are absolute URI, and as such rely on standard internte protocols to define their referents.   The exceptions are the wiki references. 


Wiki references, with a couple of exceptions, refer to rooms or spaces within the domain in which the item is shown or processed.  This applies even if the item has moved from one domain to another.  Hense wiki references are like pronouns:  if i say "your left hand" to John, I am talking about John's left hand;  but if I say that to Sally,  I am talking about Sally's left hand.  The same applies to wiki references.  This item refers to wiki references which if dereferenced from fastblogit.com would yield the tag room http://fastblogit.com/tags/wiki%20references but if dereferenced from icybermind.net  would yield the tag room http://icybermind.net/tag/wiki%20references.  These are "physically" different rooms, just as John's left hand is physically different from Sally's left hand.  However if those domains have behind the scenes agreements and protocols to share data, then to some extent these references may refer to the same items.  We have achieved the ideal situation, when a wiki reference refers to the same items even though it is viewed from a different domain.  That is, after all the goal of any reference.

Tags

  1. wiki references
  2. interdomain

Comments


Mark de LA says
source: This would mean that the system scans all items outboud in the feed to change the item references to absolute  by appending the domain name, if it is not already present.
This means that an item can travel and accumulate a bunch of comments from different authors along the way so that a comment will have a server name as well, eh ? in possibly different groups ?

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-12 05:34:09 1461
source: This would mean that the system scans all items outboud in the feed to change the item references to absolute  by appending the domain name, if it is not already present.
This means that an item can travel and accumulate a bunch of comments from different authors along the way so that a comment will have a server name as well, eh ? in possibly different groups ?

good point !

Seth says
source: mark's comment above
If you are prefixing the item with a domain then, are you not back to square one again ?
No, you have make the item globally unique.  What is the problem that you see here?

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-11 11:36:55 1461
Unless all clones are in sync there will be number duplicates.
All colnes with be prefixed with their domain names.  There can not be any duplicates.

Mark de LA says
I think permalinks are one legitimate use of a domain specific place. Why would you want to refer to a specific item by a number in any other way. Are you trying to say "here is item number 100,000,000 in the world" ? Then comes the problem of knowing how to have all clones of fastblogit running on the same number system (probably utc date-time plus some kind of a collision resolver). If you are prefixing the item with a domain then, are you not back to square one again ?

Seth says
Now, unfortunately, there is one wiki reference that, the way it is not defined, does not work as described above.  The problem is the item or permalink; item 1000 at fastblogit.com is not the same as item 1000 at icybermind.com.  

We should change this and make the item reference always refer to the same item regardless of how or where that item is moved.   We can do that by prefixing the item number with the doamin; exmple [newitem fastblogit.com#1000].  Here we have used 'newitem" instead of item so that it will not be interperted by the current wiki reference interperter.

When item 1000 is imported from fastblogit to icybermind it retains its original prefix. 

Discuss ...

Mark de LA says
Unless all clones are in sync there will be number duplicates.

Mark de LA says
What happens when you import an item 1000 and there is already a different item 1000 in the database ?

Mark de LA says
seth 2005-10-11 11:39:22 1461
source: mark's comment above
If you are prefixing the item with a domain then, are you not back to square one again ?
No, you have make the item globally unique.  What is the problem that you see here?
Just your previously expressed desire to expunge domain names from the universe.... you are just hiding them.  I like the explanation of most of this though.

Mark de LA says
If you could display them still as 1000, but you can't because that syntax says item 1000 in fastblogit. There you have to see the ugly domain syntax in a permalink.

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-11 11:45:27 1461
If you could display them still as 1000, but you can't because that syntax says item 1000 in fastblogit. There you have to see the ugly domain syntax in a permalink.
It is possible to have 'item 1000' refer to the item in the current domain.  When that item number flows out on the feed, it becomes fastblogit.com#1000.  When it is imported to a different domain it would read 'item fastblogit.com#1000'. 

Mark de LA says
is there a difference between 'item fastblogit.com#1000' coming in from the outside different from 1000 ??

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-11 11:56:10 1461 
 Could even charge for numbers. 
Sorry i pressed delete on the idea "have a service issue global numbers".  

But such a system would solve no problems that prefixing the number with the domain would not solve with far less overhead.

Mark de LA says
Could even charge for numbers.

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-11 11:43:30 1461
Just your previously expressed desire to expunge domain names from the universe.... you are just hiding them.
You are taking "expunge domain names from the universe" to be too exhaustively.  When something needs a thing to have a globla unique name (like a domain name), then we need to issue it one.  An item is such a thingy.  But tag rooms, group rooms, or title rooms already have global unique names ... they are simply what we have called them.  It is the (social) function of the system that we are designing to make those rooms contain the same items. 

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-11 11:52:59 1461
is there a difference between 'item fastblogit.com#1000' coming in from the outside different from 1000 ??
if i am in fastblogit then 'item 1000' should test identical to 'item fastblogit#1000'.  In practice one might just discard such duplicate items comming from outside.

Mark de LA says
source:In practice one might just discard such duplicate items comming from outside.
I don't think (given RSS) that that's workable .  It is now because we have only one clone. But imagine them all over the place each making duplicate numbers from their startups & then trying to integrate a couple....

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-11 12:14:31 1461
source:In practice one might just discard such duplicate items comming from outside.
I don't think (given RSS) that that's workable .  It is now because we have only one clone. But imagine them all over the place each making duplicate numbers from their startups & then trying to integrate a couple....
I don't know what you are talking about.  RSS (and Atom which we use) all have unique item identifications.   I am just proposing that ours be of the form  domain#id.  These will give each item a unique identification regardless of the part being duplicated in many different domains.  In fact many RSS systems are using this unique identification to know not to show you the same items again and again. 

Seth says
seth 2005-10-11 11:48:59 1461
It is possible to have 'item 1000' refer to the item in the current domain.  When that item number flows out on the feed, it becomes fastblogit.com#1000.  When it is imported to a different domain it would read 'item fastblogit.com#1000'. 

This would mean that the system scans all items outboud in the feed to change the item references to absolute  by appending the domain name, if it is not already present.

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