Jan25

About: The Egyptian Revolution


Here is a link to what Foxnews wants you to believe is the most important World Stories on 1/25/2011 ... but not a mention of the riots (revolution) in Egypt.

The link above goes to the Fox World news page at 2 PM on 1/25/2011. 

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Imho, this was the most important story on Jan 25, 2011.
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1/28/2011 - The story finally hits the front pages of American media after Egypt shuts down not only the internet, but also the phones.  Riots continue on Friday's day of prayer.  You can watch it live in English on Al Jazeera.

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2/8/2011 - Wael Ghonim is certainly a colorful example of the young revolutionaries in Egypt.   Here is his twitter feed @Ghonim , video of an interview , and story about his capture and release by the government of Egypt in the Wall Street JournalAccording to his linkedin status he is head of marketing for Middle East & North Africa at Google.  Some are saying that he is "A New Leader for Egypt's Protesters".  I am following him on twitter.  Watching  this BBC video might give you an idea of his effect on events.


60 minutes airs a interview with Wael Ghornim

The facebook page that started all this is "We are all Khaled Said".  Hopefully i have reported this correctly.
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2/10/2011 - I finally found a list of demands ... now we are talking
source: Washington Post
The military's supreme council was meeting Thursday, without Mubarak, its commander in chief, and announced on state TV its "support of the legitimate demands of the people," AP said. [...] Gen. Hassan al-Roueini, military commander for the Cairo area, told thousands of protesters in central Tahrir Square, "All your demands will be met today."
and Wael Ghonim tweets: "Mission accomplished. Thanks to all the brave young Egyptians. #Jan25"

But it didn't happen then, Mubarak made a long edited speech in which at best  he said "I have delegated to the vice president some of the power" ... it wasn't enough for the revolutionaries, they showed their anger waving their shoes.


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02/11/11 - Finally after Friday prayers the VP announces that "President Mohamed Hosni Mubarak has decided to relieve himself of his position as president and the Supreme military council has taken control of the state's affairs"  according to a brief report by  Christiane Amanpour.

The crowd goes wild in jubilation.
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02/12/11 - Egypt's military rulers are dissolving the parliament and suspending the constitution, meeting two key demands of pro-democracy protesters.  They said they will run the country for six months, or until presidential and parliament elections can be held.
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02/18/11 - another Friday
source: We are all Khaled Said

people are saying that the next demand of the revolution is to make Tahrir square bigger

Yes ... i think so .

I will bet that Tahrir becomes a monument to the Egyptian revolution.

Picture source Christian Science monitor who's headline goes beyond the facts given in their report.

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6-19-2012


Thousands in #Tahrir square now protesting against the unelected military council decision to reduce the elected president powers and dissolve the elected parliament.


Tags

  1. 2011 events
  2. egypt
  3. foxnews
  4. foxnews bashing
  5. jan25
  6. revolution
  7. item 14873
  8. Tahrir
  9. SOTU
  10. Yemen

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2011-01-29 04:42:55 14873
source: M states the protesters grievances with the following spin about M$M:
The justification being touted by the M$Media for the demonstrations is that the current dictator Mubarak has not listened to the people & has blocked change
I have also heard that the corruption of the government is one of the main grievances of the people.
Yep, that's part of not listening.  Our own government has that problem as well.  Add rumors of secret police torture similar to the savak in Iran just before the fall of the Shah.  It seems like all dictatorships suffer that problem. Iran traded one form of secret police for another brand of the same shit.


Mark de LA says
BTW, FoxNews seems to be wall-to-wall on this story now as is CNN.  Perhaps, it is wise sometimes to get the whole story & facts rather than all the initial rumors. Your title for this item is somewhat misleading. They don't say that in their editorial opinion that all the other stories were the "most important" at that time. Even Obama is wisely holding off saying anything for the time being.

Seth says
source: M states the protesters grievances with the following spin about M$M:
The justification being touted by the M$Media for the demonstrations is that the current dictator Mubarak has not listened to the people & has blocked change
I have also heard that the corruption of the government is one of the main grievances of the people.

Seth says


It might be interesting to ponder at what point a riot becomes a revolution?

Mark de LA says
The justification being touted by the M$Media for the demonstrations is that the current dictator Mubarak has not listened to the people & has blocked change - similar to the conditions in Iran with the Shaw they say. It depends upon whether Mubarak summons leadership or repression, IMHO. If he has any wisdom he will quell the demonstrations, reform the government & make it more democratic & stay out of a revolution.  I am told he got into office by a coup. Which, IMHO proves the wisdom that that which can be taken by force can be taken away by force - a corrollary of 14838. Notice that the Internet was being shut down, but the "hopelessness" of Egypt's people to reform the dictatorship was countered by social media.


Seth says
M 2011-01-26 06:41:23 14873
M 2011-01-26 06:35:15 14873
I think Fox was focusing here in the USA on Obama's state of the onion.

Perhaps they have no reporters in Egypt. The stories they publish are from the AP.
Funny during Obama's state of the union i was watching #SOTU.  I love these 100 tweets per minute feeds on live events.

Mark de LA says
You might also ask is this good for relations with the US or not. Remember Sadat & others wanted to make peace with Israel.  Did you not seem to imply that Twitter was better than Fox News or CNN? I did watch it evolve on Drudge. You can find the timeline of his headlines on his site in the archive section.  Twitter suffers from crowd-sourcing. Is the revolution good or bad, who knows? Does government selection by riots make sense at all. One has to presume that there is good will amongst the demonstrators as history has found in the beginnings of the USA (for the most part). Is it spreading by country? Why is it spreading? Who is behind the spreading?

Seth says

As of this morning Foxnews has no substantial coverage of this even on the front of their world page.  CNN and the guardian, however, do. 

I'm just really curious why Fox is downplaying this story.

Seth says
M 2011-01-25 17:50:55 14873
Apparently you deleted my comment. No truth for you!
Wasn't intentional if i did ... but i read it ... later looked at the item and it was gone ... i thought you had deleted it.  But i found it in my cache ...
source: from seth's cache


...


Seth says
This item is about *my awareness* of the events in Egypt chronicled in #Jan25 from a historical perspective.   I'm not judging it in What Kind of Being Does it Take to RIOT? ... i'm merely watching them happen and watching how they are played in various media.  My big question is will this uprising be quenched like it was in Iran, China ... or will it lead to a change in government like in Tunisia?  Will this kind of unrest spread to other countries in the middle east?  What part, if any, was brought about by Wikileaks?

Seth says
Facebook & Twitter Both Blocked in Egypt ... apparently some governments are scared of social media.

Seth says
M 2011-01-26 07:26:54 14873
Interesting approach! So instead of watching what Obama was saying you were watching what a bunch of people were saying about what Obama was saying. Did you read just the ones that were positive about Obama?

I had his address on TV in front of me and split my attention between the tweets and his address which i was bored with because i'm not really interested in national politics all that very much anymore.  What i was interested in was the flood of opinion and the fact that i could watch that in real time ... it was more of a technological adventure than anything political.  The content of social media has become like society thinking. That's my old leviathan rearing its ugly head.

Mark de LA says
seth 2011-01-26 08:20:11 14873
Facebook & Twitter Both Blocked in Egypt ... apparently some governments are scared of social media.
& then there is renewed interest in giving Obama an Internet Kill Switch as well!


Mark de LA says
Let me think .... do you suppose that a riot, fueled by people getting overly excited & copying each others' rage, as most mobs do, would be quelled by more communications with each other or less on twitter? Rage & riot does not lead to freedom.  It usually leads to loss of freedom & suppression, IMHO 14838. Like a pack of wild dogs it takes only the animal brains & the scent of aggression to fuel destruction & death.


Seth says
I guess you think i'm trying to justify mob action, which i am not.  It is a fact of world politics, like it or not.  Twitter is another tool in the arsenal of organizers.  That does not give me pause to judge twitter badly.  The world changes, even governments change when new technology is introduced ... me, i'm just becoming aware of our modern world.  

Seth says
M 2011-01-26 13:47:08 14873
seth 2011-01-26 12:50:43 14873
I guess you think I'm trying to justify mob action, which i am not.  It is a fact of world politics, like it or not.  Twitter is another tool in the arsenal of organizers.  That does not give me pause to judge twitter badly.  The world changes, even governments change when new technology is introduced ... me, i'm just becoming aware of our modern world.  
nah, my remark was directed at
seth(above): ... 
    ... apparently some governments are scared of social media.
... & the apparent timely illustration of 14838 ; your ignoring of the possibility that throttling twitter & the Internet could be put in the hands of Obama soon notwithstanding.
Well i usually ignore you comments targeted at denigrating Obama ... and will continue to do so.  Am i scared of our government throttling the Internet? ... not really ... and Democrats would naturally be the loudest party in support of a free Internet ... so your questioning hits me as just a oppurtunity to beat your favorite hoarse ... as such needs to be righteously ignored .... Woops.

Seth says
M 2011-01-26 14:41:02 14873
In another 2 years it could be another Bush or perhaps a birther - then what? Ignoring the truth won't make it go away. All totalitarian regimes throttle the news. In the Internet Age it might take a kill switch whereas in previous times just a telephone switch & walls.
What is this, some kind of proposed legislation?  If so, i doubt that it will even get out of committee.  My impression, with no further study, is that somebody wrote a scare article and some politician talked about a bill ... then guys like you started repeating the meme to drum up fear of Obama.  Let me know if i have substantially misunderstood the situation on this.  Now, what so called truth am i ignoring?  America still has freedom of speech and other civil liberties ... stay vigilant, though ... we lost some of those during the Bush era's war of terrorism.

Seth says
This has got to be the first Revolution ever where people had to stand in line to get in !


Seth says
C 2011-01-26 15:30:54 14873
seth 2011-01-26 15:10:13 14873
M 2011-01-26 14:41:02 14873
In another 2 years it could be another Bush or perhaps a birther - then what? Ignoring the truth won't make it go away. All totalitarian regimes throttle the news. In the Internet Age it might take a kill switch whereas in previous times just a telephone switch & walls.
What is this, some kind of proposed legislation?  If so, i doubt that it will even get out of committee.  My impression, with no further study, is that somebody wrote a scare article and some politician talked about a bill ... then guys like you started repeating the meme to drum up fear of Obama.  Let me know if i have substantially misunderstood the situation on this.  Now, what so called truth am i ignoring?  America still has freedom of speech and other civil liberties ... stay vigilant, though ... we lost some of those during the Bush era's war of terrorism.
Ok that was, as i suspected, proposed legislation from 6 months ago ... and not proposed by the administration i might add ... proposed instead by Lieberman ... you know McCain's side kick.   Did it get out of committee?  I doubt it. 

Your second link has some kind of download pathology connected to it, sorry not interested.

Btw, i think there should be some discussions of  a law stating that the justice department could shut down, or block, a specific IP address or domain name if they were able to prove in court that it was harming national security.  But that would be a long way from a internet wide kill switch. 

Seth says
 Whats Missing in the Internet Kill-Switch Debate tells a more even handed story.

Your second link above is ok; it is just some version of the bill itself in pdf format; but not something that i want to study in detail to find the flaw.  The government does need some powers to defend cyberspace from a strategic attack ... seems to me that the legislators are just grappling with how to provide that power. 

What is a real twist here is when people twist that to crank up fear of Obama.  To me, that is just despicable and not the kind of useful public debate that this country needs.  It's like the people who were pushing the "death panel" meme during the health care debate ... that was more despicable twisting. 

C says
seth 2011-01-26 16:50:52 14873

 Whats Missing in the Internet Kill-Switch Debate tells a more even handed story.

Your second link above is ok; it is just some version of the bill itself in pdf format; but not something that i want to study in detail to find the flaw.  The government does need some powers to defend cyberspace from a strategic attack ... seems to me that the legislators are just grappling with how to provide that power. 

What is a real twist here is when people twist that to crank up fear of Obama.  To me, that is just despicable and not the kind of useful public debate that this country needs.  It's like the people who were pushing the "death panel" meme during the health care debate ... that was more despicable twisting. 

Its only despicable when one drags (for you) the red herring Obama through the discussion.  Rationality seems to go out the window. All (watch this) that Obama did yesterday was brand spending ideas in the form of the word  "investments" in yesterday's SoTU & then go out on campaign for the next 21 months & 11 days.  Now that's what I call disgusting. There is nothing wrong with an Internet kill switch as long as it is used properly for defense against well-defined cyber-terroism & emergencies specified in law & the consequences well planned for. It's very existence, though is one step closer to a dictatorship in the wrong hands.  In practice I am certain that it is not a single switch.
 

Mark de LA says
America seems to have supported the uprising in some way not entirely clear from the article according to this article & some wikileaks sourcing.

Seth says
I heard on Good Morning America this morning that there are twitter hash searches for other middle east countries like #Jan25 was for Egypt.  I would like to know what those twitter searches are.

Seth says
C 2011-01-31 08:39:50 14873
Don't you just put a #-sign in front of a country or follow something like http://twitter.com/egyptianuprise ?

Well for #Yemen that yielded the following interesting tweet...



But these are not as specific at to kick off days of uprisings like #Jan25 is for #Egypt.

Were there dates known in advance, like was suggested by the GMA comment, then that would imply a certain measure of global planning.

Seth says
A rare tweet from TBL is pertinent here.

Mark de LA says
url http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/2011210459908692.html

Mark de LA says
uri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

C says
C 2011-01-31 11:04:53 14873
Needed is a crowd estimate for the Egyptian riots & protests.  IMHO, using estimates of the Million-Man March in DC which was ~ 400,000 estimated by the park service & the 2010 population we have less than 0.5 percent is causing problems.  Check this formula where you can plug your value in for a sense of proportion; TV pictures & video & twitter notwithstanding.  News comes through a distorted lens.
Does that mean that the government should change based on that small a number.  Obama's numbers are a lot worse!

the formula is more like http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+250000%2F84500000+to+percent 

Seth says
C 2011-02-01 09:28:31 14873
seth 2011-02-01 07:52:52 14873
C 2011-02-01 07:42:53 14873
seth 2011-02-01 07:27:22 14873
C 2011-02-01 06:23:37 14873
how kum urls don't auto translate to links ?
Good question ... not sure of unintended consequences ... but it would make posting urls from my pod much easier ... maybe next time i'll use the url ... syntax
I thought at one time they did.

i don't remember ... but in any case it is prolly an idea who's time has come.

what we need is a good list where we put up a wishlist.  one thing i want is to redesign the screen to go better with a pod ... another thing perhaps install ability to post and recieve via emails ... another to force http on about box ... another to get the ' bug out of the title ... not to mention a more universal wysiwyg box.  but am not sure when if ever i'll do more dev here.
Keep in mind those of us who are your main contributors & do not use iPods. I would prefer a separate system for iPod users along side the rugulars. iPod is not the only mobile.
Not to worry, the changes i had in mind would not degrade the desktop views ... but might simplify them; also they would not be particular to iPods but rather to all mobile devises. 

Thing is it is ok to waste space on a desktop screen for the sake of the kewl way it may look, but on a mobile it really degrades usefulness.  Even multiple columns are contra-productive.  I think that you're going to start seeing more single column websites and not so much black space on the side of the content ... not to mention simplified menus. 

Mark de LA says
If you are going to make changes there are two I am interested in:
  • make comments uri addressable
  • do something such that google can find the pieces not tagged. I can use google site search but won't find what I am looking for unless it has been captured in the living stream by google when they do their web spidering.



Mark de LA says

Here is something from FoxNews that might be interesting in restoring stability in Cairo:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/03/gates-emerges-key-egypt-crisis/

Mark de LA says
Don't be Evil, eh?

Google Exec Hailed as Hero in Egypt


Seth says
M 2011-02-08 08:40:22 14873
Don't be Evil, eh?

Oh i didn't knowhe was a Google Executive till now, thanks for the post.

But i've seen many a tweet about Wael Ghonim go by in the revolutionary streme, #Jan25 ... when he was arrested ... when he was released ... and now people are saying things like ...


PS:  Why the twist on Don't be evil?

Seth says
source: M
Molotov cocktails & throwing rocks is behavior appropriately called RIOTING regardless of the purpose or motivation. I think you are the stuck one.

Mark, we already argued that whole thing.  It is a waste of time to repeat the same kind of judgments again and again.  Go read what we already said to each other on this matter and if there are any new viewpoints, post them over there or elsewhere. 

Seth says
M 2011-02-08 09:26:16 14873
He was a Google exec. "Don't be evil" was one of their mottos, wasn't it? He's over there aiding riots. I suspect that the riots are the will of some agitators with money & other aims, not necessarily the will of the people.
I wonder if we should riot here since the government is spending us into the ditch.

Sigh ... i guess your mind is still stuck on this being "riots".  We already argued that ... i guess nothing stuck.  No more of it here, please ... this has become my event tracker item ... post your judgments elsewhere.  But thanks for the link anyway ... was new information.

C says
C 2011-02-09 08:35:41 14873
Maybe Wael Ghonim should stay in Egypt & become her president! OTOH, there is some cause for paranoia with all the iPads & documentation in the crowd:
source: ...

Many in Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the protests in Cairo, have noticed some in the crowds who look out of place. They hold mobile telephones aloft, recording video of the panorama. The protesters suspect these are undercover police documenting who is attending the protests and fear that if they don't win far-reaching concessions soon, an emboldened security establishment will identify and round them up, one by one.


...
Ghonim has a Wikipedia page is here.

Seth says
I imagine that most of the mobile cameras are for the purpose of recording the events and posting to revolutionary youtube channels and twitting and not from the government.  Paranoia in this situation where lives are being lost, of course is almost prudent ... but the watchers are themselves watched. 

Seth says

I trust Christiane Amanpour to report a better truth of #Jan25.  I follow here on twitter and like her on facebook.

Seth says
M 2011-02-10 08:26:42 14873
You could be more genuine and retitle this item #Jan25 or something. The title assertion is not true excpet in your mind.

Actually you're right:  old title was: About: Here is a link to what Foxnews wants you to believe is the most important World Stories on 1/25/2011

Seth says
M 2011-02-11 08:28:43 14873
However, a few minutes ago just about everyone (ABC, CNN, FOX, Drudge ...) agrees that he stepped down & left Cairo & the military is now in charge. Go figure ...

There are reports that Mubarak left for the Egyptian gulf resort town of Sharm el-Sheikh shortly after his speech last night.  Then today after prayers the VP delivered a very brief statement that he turned over control to the higher military council. 

The tweets go like this ...

So primary goal has been met.








Installing a totally new government is not going to be easy.

Seth says
I'm wondering: whether January 25 or February 11 (2/11/11) will be marked as the new Egyptian Independence day?

Seth says
M 2011-02-10 12:12:17 14873
seth 2011-02-10 10:53:39 14873
M 2011-02-10 10:24:05 14873
So the scoop is out - Mubarak is going to resign: Foxnews 
Well as usual Fox goes a bit beyond the actual truth which i stated hours ago in the body of this item. 
source: foxnews
President Hosni Mubarak will step down shortly and transfer authority to the Egyptian Higher Council of the Armed Forces, a senior Egyptian official confirmed to Fox News on Thursday.
Fact is, nobody really knows that he will step down and that includes Fox and their unamed official.   But Amanpour tweeted that "Al Arabiya TV reports that Mubarak will step down. Our sources say unclear that will happen" 2 hours ago.  Foxnews will have egg on their face if that doesn't actually happen.

You are right in that it hasn't happened yet, but:
source: ... A senior Egyptian official confirms to Fox News that President Hosni Mubarak will step down shortly and transfer authority to the Egyptian Higher Council of the Armed Forces as Egypt's state TV says Mubarak will address the nation Thursday evening.
... is fair for a news agency to cite. FoxNews is not alone in this prediction MSNBC, CNN reported earlier that the protesters will get everything they wanted (now they are more cautious) ... we shal see.

Like i said, Foxnews went beyond what that which which was given ... the "will" word stuck out to anyone, like for example Amanpour, who was cognizant of what actually happened as a soar thumb.  Fact is he did not step down today.  Now we will see what the army will do.  People are argry.

Mark de LA says
The most fun headline was the one that said that the demonstrators would get everything they wanted. It showed up as I searched around right after the main headline appeared on Drudge. My memory was it was perhaps MSNBC, but right now I am sure it was scrubbed since it didn't happen. That was patently bizarre.

Mark de LA says
Even Obama's CIA directer had no clue:
source: ...

CIA Director Leon Panetta helped touch off an avalanche of erroneous expectations Thursday when he testified that there was a "strong likelihood" that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak would step down by the end of the day.

Within minutes, senior aides to Panetta sought to tamp down the impact, saying he was merely referring to media reports. But by then, the comments had ricocheted around the Internet, underscoring U.S. confusion about events unfolding in Egypt, as well as the perils of publicly weighing in on such developments while serving as director of CIA.


... emphasis mine .  Personally, I think Mubarak stuck it to Obama for whatever reason; allied countries telling Mubarak to resign being a bit hard to swallow.

Mark de LA says
Here is a disturbing thought in the context that you seem to justify revolution, why has the larger Islamic community not held a revolution to purge the radical elements which give it a bad name by doing things like blow up innocents in the name of Allah? Or is the difference between radical & orthodox simply not there?


Seth says
source: M above
Wow , credible sources lie to the media, what a surprise! Whoever it was lied to several of the media outlets.

People frequently go beyond the facts given.  Wise journalist know that and don't compound the issue.  The Fox news sentence "President Hosni Mubarak will step down shortly and transfer authority to the Egyptian Higher Council of the Armed Force" struck me as such a going beyond the facts when i first read it prior to knowing what events actually happened later. 

The Egyptian Ambassador to US told a different story to Woff Blitzer on CNN saying in essence that Mubaric did step down deligating his powers to the VP and implied that this was a constitutional technicality.  Mubaric's short operative sentence was "I have delegated to the vice president some of the power - the powers of the president according to the constitution" [emphasis mine].  That at the end of a speech that in no way sounded like a resignation. 



Seth says
M 2011-02-11 10:32:45 14873
M 2011-02-11 10:30:33 14873
M 2011-02-11 10:13:39 14873
Interesting is that Mubarak hasn't said he "stepped down" or resigned & the VP did the announcing & apparently it smells more like a military coup than anything else & all are celebrating.
We'll see how long Americans can celebrate when we see what kind of "democracy", if it does, emerges in view of recent (June) polls on what the Egyptians think:
source: ...

The Zogby poll results back up a similar project conducted by Pew in April and May of last year.  Among Egyptian Muslims polled, 85% felt that Islam’s role in politics was a positive one.  In a struggle between modernizers and Islamist fundamentalists, 59% of Egyptians who foresaw such a conflict stated they would side with the Islamists, while only 27% stated that they would side with the modernizers.

Another Pew poll last June revealed that only 17% of Egyptians hold a favorable view of the United States, while 20% hold a favorable view of suicide bombing.  Yes dear readers, Egyptians like suicide bombing more than they like you

... enjoy the glow while it lasts.

 
Remeber that open & free elections are the ultimate poll!

Well the VP, Suleiman, to which Mubarak delegated power announced "President Mohamed Hosni Mubarak has decided to relieve himself of his position as president and the Supreme military council has taken control of the state's affairs".  Thing is the people did not like the process that Mubarak scoped yesterday where the transition would be precised over by the old rules and the cronies of his regime.  In Egypt the people have more trust in the military, than they do Mubarak's party.  It is what they wanted to happen ... it is not the army's doing!

I think the young people who caused this revolution were not the ones consulted by the poll you quote.   They are a new force in Egyptian politics and their demands include "free and open elections" .... so perhaps if they can depose a dictator that can also make a new government.  

Seth says
C 2011-02-12 08:41:59 14873
seth 2011-02-12 08:26:50 14873
C 2011-02-11 17:15:43 14873
Maybe Twitter & Facebook can gather people en masse to say to the government "we hate you" or some other message, but can they actually organize a replacement with democratic processes? Where's the APP for Democracy?
Well you named them   ... twitter, facebook, and while your at it add Al Jazeera and the cell phone.  You might even throw in WikiLeaks and you need the cloud.  All of those help people communicate between each other subverting the old  control structures. 
If I were to believe that just the tools of communication would yield a democracy out of a chaos of humans, I would also have to believe that it were possible that a garage full of random car parts would somehow yield a working car given a good tool box full of tools. 
In a chaos of humans, or a mob, the loudest & most testosterone-biassed voices will get attention & configure futures. How many women were part of the so-called Egyptian revolution. Without the women there won't be much democracy (although the US started that way).  It will be interesting, given the results in Iraq after the fall of Sadam, if lots & better tools makes a more stable, open, free, lasting & transcending democracy.
 
Well open free decentralized communication between humans will not necessarily converge in democracy ... but it will make it harder for dictators who depend on the ignorance and the inabilities of their subjects to control them. 

Seth says
source: M above asks
I am sure that people will examine how Twitter & Facebook managed to aid the "revolution" in Egypt for some time to come, but I can't find anything substantial in the twitterings & on facebook to substantiate any answer to the question HOW? What's your theory, Seth? Flashmobs? Invitations to the party?
Did you listen to the 60 minutes airs a interview with Wael Ghornim ?  I think that inverview gives good answer to your questions and provides a very real example of "how" it works.   In summary, any process that allows people to freely communicate, organize, and learn knowledge about the political process will allow them to start to control it. 


C says

(above): ...
Well open free decentralized communication between humans will not necessarily converge in democracy ... but it will make it harder for dictators who depend on the ignorance and the inabilities of their subjects to control them. 

... maybe ... so far they achieved a military coup, suspended the constitution & have no parliament... the previous 3 governments began with military coups ...

I am sure that people will examine how Twitter & Facebook managed to aid the "revolution" in Egypt for some time to come, but I can't find anything substantial in the twitterings & on facebook to substantiatiate any answer to the question HOW? What's your theory, Seth? Flashmobs? Invitations to the party?

Seth says
M 2011-02-14 11:31:31 14873
seth 2011-02-14 11:20:14 14873
M 2011-02-14 10:39:37 14873
seth 2011-02-14 10:18:46 14873
C 2011-02-14 09:52:59 14873
seth 2011-02-14 09:39:25 14873

KEWL! Maybe that explains the successes of the tea parties.

Doesn't answer my question, nor does it shed any light on that to which it was a response ... hence does not form a continuation of that dialogue. 

... but hey yes, is does not matter which side of any political polarity you stand,  modern communication is a tool which can effectively be used.  In fact during #Jan25 the Mubarak party tried, unsuccessfully i might add, to use twitter and facebook to defend the regime.  They even shut off access to the internet; but that backfired on them:  listen to the 60 minute interview with Wael ... it's all in there and also elsewhere on the web in as much detail as you care to delve.
Yep, I didn't answer yours (I didn't follow your link), but you didn't answer mine. You just gave me a link. Shutting off access to the Internet doesn't seem to be much of a defense. I did look at "We are all Khaled Said" which gave me clues about the character of the previous police state. 

You should watch the 60 minutes video, because it does answer your question "How did twitter and facebook help the revolution.  Also, perhaps, you should listen to what i have already said about "how" these communication tools actually do help.  Are you really interested in an answer to that question; or are you just interested in judging this particular event?  Me, i fear the latter is the case, and i tire of not making any connections in dialogue with you; because you always reframe and deflect. 
I am not your link monkey.  I was hoping that your apparent love of the mobile media & social media itself would bring some unique points of view - guess NOT.  60 minutes always has some kind of axe to grind.  I watch it sometimes.  I watch Amanpour sometimes, too.
It's not a link, and your not a monkey, you're just being argumentative.  It's a video of a news program that aired on 60 minutes last night and in my opinion bears directly on your question.   You asked a question that i attempted to answer as best i could, and if your pride or whatever was not getting in the way, we could examine the answer.   But fine, if you don't want your opinions informed by people who were there, then i give up.  Without more informed opinion from you i consider this issue closed .

Seth says
The Christian Science Monitor's headline that i hyperlinked tody in the body of this item was entitled "Revered Islamic preacher rallies Egyptians in Tahrir signaling larger role for Islam"  that URI has been subsequently redirected to an article titled "Egypt revolution unfinished, Qaradawi tells Tahrir masses" which more accurately reflects the facts reported in the article. 

Interestingly enough Ghornim just tweeted about the speech ...

...


Seth says
source: M response not related to mine of 2011-02-18 12:17:24

 I guess the theocracy is on it's way with the Muslim Brotherhood working up the crowd for whatever purposes fit the plan.   Here is more information on Sheikh Qaradawi Kutbah that was left out of the Christian Science Monitor's article. I guess that those around the globe who out of fear must adopt "Muslim Correctness" or "Islam Correctness" stances can now just relax & wait. Obama? Who knows where he stands - is he ready to join UN in chastizing Israel?
...

C says
How's that revolution going in Egypt - 75 days later?  Apparently the military is attacking people in Tahir square & resisting trials of their own complicity including Mubarak for past transgressions.  Who's gonna win?  Sometimes a revolution without a plan (i.e. mobs) leads to just SOS or worse. We have that problem in the US.


Mark de LA says
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-15-egypt-protest_n.htm - 121 days later:
Mob attacks Christian protest in Egypt
...

 A Mob is a Mob is a Mob (Paraphrasing Gertrude Stein, of course)


Mark de LA says
NETANYAHU: Sinai now a 'terror zone'...
EGYPT MUSLIM BROS. GO TO WHITE HOUSE... 
Rockets now being fired from Egypt.
~~~~
Just in case you think all is going well the Muslim Brotherhood apparently fully entrenched in Egypt's government hass a dossier here:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6386
or perhaps on Wikipedia:
Wikipedia: ...  Its credo is, "God is our objective; the Quran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations."[4
...
sounds like terrorists to me.

Mark de LA says
.. & now onward toward getting a bomb?


POLL: Egyptians turn to Iran, want nuclear bomb...
It just must be in those Middle East genes!



Mark de LA says
Today on Drudge (1 year, 10 months & 12 days later)


7 DEAD, HUNDREDS INJURED IN CAIRO PROTEST...

ARMY ULTIMATUM: GET OFF THE STREETS...

PROTESTERS DEFY ORDER...
....
Is there a way to translate Ghornim's tweets from Arabic while still in Twitter or Facebook without moving the text to a translator?


Seth says
M 2012-12-06 09:06:50 14873
Is there a way to translate Ghornim's tweets from Arabic while still in Twitter or Facebook without moving the text to a translator?


Depends on your devise.  I found a translate button on my pod ... see 14910.   But in Ghornim's case you prolly can just wait till he tweets it in English.

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