What is a tag ?

About: bug list links

Reification in an alternative ontology ? Possibly, but simplified tags are associations between a name (noun or phrase) and an item. In general a word associated to something means that that thing is a member of a class of things. Does collecting things in goups once they have been associated alter the class membership?  I hope you remember your basic Sesame Street education and echo my NO.  Collecting things or regrouping may add an association or delete an association only in the distinction of "membership within a group" - where group is what we use group for in FastBlogIt.  A group here refers to a collection of people who write items about topics generally similar in nature. That said, then items can be tagged within the group and outside the group and all be valid.

Discussion is open now!

Tags

  1. _tags
  2. folksonomy
  3. words
  4. logical positivism

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2005-10-18 10:58:01 1547
Mark 2005-10-18 08:52:09 1547
logical positivism
I don't buy into everyting that from the logical positivism movement; but one thing that i do buy into is their flight from metaphysics.  I think you will find that the substance of metahpysics is just words. 
Yes! I don't think much of metaphysics myself, either.  I don't put RS in that category however as you probably do.

Seth says
source:
Does collecting things in goups once they have been associated alter the class membership?
I don't know what that means to you.

An item that is tagged "cats" is a member of the folksonomy class called "cats".  We collect items in tag rooms by tagging them. 

People collect items in groups, example group seth, by writing an item in that group. 

The collecting by taggin (yes, anybody can tag an item) and the collecting by writing an item in a group, are two different and independant collecting actions. 





Seth says
Well maybe start with what i do understand ...

source:
but simplified tags are associations between a name (noun or phrase) and an item. In general a word associated to something means that that thing is a member of a class of things.

... makes sense and i agree with it.  A formal logical class just needs a membersthip function and that is essentialy what tagging an item does, it says and item is a member of a tag room with the tag as the name of the room.

I don't know what ...

source:
Reification in an alternative ontology

means to you.  I'm guessing that you are using it in the sense "making something abstract, real".  I would say that in that sense having tag rooms reifies the abstract sense in which a tag is a class.  An item is either in the tag room or it is not.  Visually we can see the items in the room and the room becomes very real and perhaps that means that the class named by the tag is thereby reified. 

Now, yes, you can get a kind of ontology (which usually means a heirachy of classes) with these tag rooms.  That is what we are getting into with the related tags ... see work in progress on the top of every room where the related tags are starting to be shown. 

And, yes, by collecting different items in different related tag rooms alters the composition of those rooms and hense alters the meaning of the tags which name those rooms.  Was that what you meant by ...

source:
Does collecting things in goups once they have been associated alter the class membership?

???  If so, then that is just The Exstensional Approach

But then you used the term group and you were very specific as to it being what we mean by a group in fastblogit ... ie those things collected in the tag room s .groups.  These groups have a different membership function not implemented by the taggings of items.  And then socially the groups are really composed of the people who know the password for the group and post items to those groups.  

So I think you can grok that to combine all of that in your, now famous sentense, give me a bit of a ponderance   ....







Mark de LA says
Here, I am using tags & groups in the most abstract way. Words have meaning & concepts within or otherwise & I wanted to apply these concepts to the behaviors of FastBlogIt for congruency.

Mark de LA says
Refer to some of the discussion linked here in the About link.

Mark de LA says
Thanks - I got the intended result which was some discussion on the set logic. The reification in an alternative ontology was (I think you grokked it) making a class real in a CyberMind or FastBlogIt sense - an ontology which is not the real world as it is normally thought of, but a world inside a computer. It would be more of a network than a hierarchy of classes though.
source: 
Does collecting things in goups once they have been associated alter the class membership?
In the real world , language or naming things & linguistically putting them in intellectual groups does not change the properties of the things themselves. It just adds groupings (cf. Venn Diagrams).


Seth says
source:
In the real world , language or naming things & linguistically putting them in intellectual groups does not change the properties of the things themselves. It just adds groupings (cf. Venn Diagrams).
I think you will find that it works exactly the same here, in cyberspace, as it does in your so called real world.  Tagging things (items) does not change the properties of those things; what it does it change the composition of tag rooms.  Those tag rooms are the linguistic classes of our cyberspaces.   The classes in which we play the google language game in the real world world, are exactly like our tag rooms here.  Those "real world classess" change as people change how they use words. 

Mark de LA says
The wikipedia left ebonics out of the language game. My quick scan of the language game was that the intent there is to obscure the meanings of things rather than tease out the real semantics.

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-18 07:23:19 1547
The wikipedia left ebonics out of the language game. My quick scan of the language game was that the intent there is to obscure the meanings of things rather than tease out the real semantics.
There is no "the meaning of things".  There is only how we use words.  google The language game is a way that Wittgenstein started talking about how language functions, rather than  what people nievely think it is.

Mark de LA says
seth 2005-10-18 08:03:29 1547
 There is only how we use words.  google The language game is a way that Wittgenstein started talking about how language functions, rather than  what people nievely think it is.
Wittgenstein was a logical positivist according to answers.com.
logical positivism
n.

A philosophy asserting the primacy of observation in assessing the truth of statements of fact and holding that metaphysical and subjective arguments not based on observable data are meaningless. Also called logical empiricism.

He apparently believed in only the 5 senses... tsk tsk. Empiricism is only one of about 7 different ways of grokking the Universe (according to RS). While words are powerful there is more! FYI, another might be gnosticism, logicism, ... occultism etc. Try looking at the thinking between auditory-internal happenings - you will notice whole new worlds of stuff. We have had this discussion before under truth. Might extend that one ... i put them in the [tagroom: tag words].





Seth says
source:
Try looking at the thinking between auditory-internal happenings - you will notice whole new worlds of stuff.
This is not something that i am unfamilure with.  When i was a child, i tried to find out if one should concentrate on that "pre verbal" though space or concentrate on the "verbal actions" instead.   I never did to this day figure that out. 

Seth says
Mark 2005-10-18 08:52:09 1547
logical positivism
I don't buy into everyting that from the logical positivism movement; but one thing that i do buy into is their flight from metaphysics.  I think you will find that the substance of metahpysics is just words. 

Seth says
So has this question been answered ?

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