Tweeting & Blogging on a lower plane

About: twitter hoaxer comes clean and says: i did it to expose weak media | technology | guardian.co.uk

In a political year & in a polarized race-war climate recently, I bet that about 90% of the tweets end up being 5th hand horseshit.
This picture might also suggest where pink slime comes from:

Comments

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-03-31 11:59:16 15913

The same thing you see as a "mob" is from the other point of view "a cry for justice". Would you throw a coin away because one face is not to your liking?

Yep - kinda depends upon which side of the mob you are on. In the old South the mob would lynch people without a trial. Some express behavior & emotions very similar on this case even today. Do you want rule of law? Are you then a judge, prosecutor, jury or policeman? Leave it to the professionals as far as action goes, but express your freedom of speech & so shall I.

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-03-31 09:30:21 15913

Well we have the concept of retweet or on fb or G+ share. Those mean that most of the stuff you see is duplicate or repetition. If you watch it you see it over and over again. The only message then become how many people are in sync with the meme.

I'm trying this one out ... see how many people repeat or reshare it ...

I GUESS YOU ARE PART OF THE 90%

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-03-31 13:50:09 15913

MR 2012-03-31 13:29:05 15913

seth 2012-03-31 11:59:16 15913

The same thing you see as a "mob" is from the other point of view "a cry for justice". Would you throw a coin away because one face is not to your liking?

Well ... i don't know ... to recognize the character A written in black against a white background, one does not need to take the point of view of the white against the black to see the letter. So for me it is just social awareness ... sure that can turn ugly ... should i always shun a social awareness (or an A) just because it can be tagged as a "mob" .... nope i will not ... but you always do ... or at least that is the way it seem to me.

Your analogy is pretty worthless - in the context of just background-foreground distinction. Nice try.
Etymology dictionary -

source: ...
1680s, "disorderly part of the population, rabble," slang shortening of mobile, mobility "common people, populace, rabble" (1670s), from L. mobile vulgus "fickle common people" (c.1600 in English), from mobile, neut. of mobilis "fickle, movable, mobile," from movere "to move" (see move). In Australia and N.Z., used without disparagement for "a crowd." Meaning "gang of criminals working together" is from 1839, originally of thieves or pick-pockets; Amer.Eng. sense of "organized crime in general" is from 1927. Mob scene "crowded place" first recorded 1922.

... inciting violence, riots & unlawful detainer (bounty on Zimmerman's head) is mob mentality - no thinking just emotion.

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-03-31 09:50:04 15913

MR 2012-03-31 09:42:11 15913

seth 2012-03-31 09:30:21 15913

I GUESS YOU ARE PART OF THE 90%

You know you say stuff like that but, surprise, surprise, i usually don't know what you mean .... this is a case in point. What are you really saying?

Play dumb long enough & the play & reality may merge! (I'm just saying)

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-03-31 09:58:43 15913

Just to perhaps shed some light on my tweet ... think about it ... have you not been seeing more hoodies being worn of late? Did not Trayvon's death actually cause that increase in either hoodie wearing or at least hoodie wearing awareness. So is not "Trayvon died for our hoodies" actually a true sentence? Then of course that true sentence is of the same form as "Jesus died for our sins" ... which fact obviously did not escape me.

Now i know that has nothing to do with the particular, socio-politico point that you are projecting here ... but i though before you went off on my tweet, that you might at least be interested in its meaning.

I appreciate & respect that you have found something with deep meaning that is a truth for you in this whole tragedy. I add my own perspective as follows: I am wearing a hoodie right now, but 99% of the time the top is down (even in the rain). It is a part of my regular informal garb. We live in a rather rural area so it is rather common. I have not been caught up in the "hoodie thingie" so nothing has caused me to look for them nor to make anything out of the normal out of one when I encounter it. Nobody died for my hoodie all 3 that I own were given to me. The most notable one from my dear brother-in-law when we were camping several years ago & it was colder than expected. The other two my wife bought for Xmas & birthday gifts. I shall not be making anything out of the tragedy until responsible people assigned to the investigations reveal their results. Hypertweeting is not my thingy. It seems nice to have an instant & growing audience, but it is being used much like a mob with megaphones, imho. It is acknowledged that - mileage varies for such things.

Mark de LA says

MR 2012-03-31 14:42:41 15913

Things like this are they a mob? http://www.katu.com/news/national/7-California-boys-arrested-in-attack-on-teen-145286335.html

Seth says

MR 2012-03-31 14:24:32 15913

seth 2012-03-31 13:50:09 15913

MR 2012-03-31 13:29:05 15913

seth 2012-03-31 11:59:16 15913

The same thing you see as a "mob" is from the other point of view "a cry for justice". Would you throw a coin away because one face is not to your liking?

Your analogy is pretty worthless - in the context of just background-foreground distinction. Nice try.
Etymology dictionary -

... inciting violence, riots & unlawful detainer (bounty on Zimmerman's head) is mob mentality - no thinking just emotion.

that part that is mob is mob ... that part that is not is not. it's not a hard concept to understand. see what you want to see ... focus on what you want to focus on. if you focus on the mob, you don't see the injustice ... if you focus on the injustice you may miss the mob. its a simple observation ... no need to argue over it.

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-04-02 02:06:52 15913

MR 2012-03-31 14:43:11 15913

MR 2012-03-31 14:42:41 15913

Things like this are they a mob? http://www.katu.com/news/national/7-California-boys-arrested-in-attack-on-teen-145286335.html

yep there is a lot of "mob" bullying activity ... it's been reported a lot in the press ... maybe now it will be reported even more ... until this thing passes.

Yep - NOTHING NEW, Alinsky's Rules for Radicals RR#1 & #9.

"Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." (#1)
"The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." (#9)

Community organizer bullying is what I object to. Nobody seems to be organizing against all the gang drive-by killings of very innocent young children inside their houses etc. AND some are making it a black-whitey thingy. If you think it's going to be fun when you set aside the rule of law & go back to lynchings - think again.

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-04-02 11:18:49 15913

MR 2012-04-02 11:05:27 15913

seth 2012-04-02 10:47:25 15913

MR 2012-04-02 07:17:17 15913

A friend posted this one on facebook which is relevant to some of the recent M$M material.

http://linguisticanthropology.org/blog/2012/04/01/truth-and-narrative/

Once again, I’m thinking through connections between two recently discussed ideas. Last month, it was academics on Wikipedia; today it’s relationships between fact and story telling. Ethan Zuckerman’s recent ruminations on activism and journalism provide a summary and synthesis of one set of ideas, and a piece Michael Wilson contributed to the New York Times’ City Room at about the same time provides the other.

...

The main part of the article is interesting.

Yes interesting ...

source:my comment on the blog
Well maybe there is NO “relationship” between narrative and ‘truth’ … maybe they are the same thing. Your precious ‘truth’ being just a place where nobody can stand … a mythical land … we all claim to have gone there … but none of us has the balls to admit that we just heard about it from our parents and friends.

...

Samo-samo truthy thingy on your part @S'th. It is becoming more & more clear to me that relying on no "truth" makes it easy to believe one is right no matter what or who says it. "Your truth" & "my truth" will never agree & that makes us both right all the time. Yippie! no more RWG. Of course all the rest of the RWG will still well up somehow with "My truth is truer than your truth" or something like that.

Again ... try writing true sentences. "relying on no 'truth' ", they way you talk about it in your sentence above, has no place in my philosophy. though it is quite a bit easier to mock than what i actually am saying.

RWG to infinito : - I should probably add to 4413 liar, liar pants on fire!

Mark de LA says

So, @S'th are you saying that civil unrest of the quality of the LA Riots was good? Is that kind of goodness what you would like if George Zimmerman does not get convicted of murder? Sometimes morality is beyond just the individual - otherwise we have anarchy & lawlessness.

Mark de LA says

Then too, if you are going to get beaten up it's probably better to get beaten up by the police because you can sue the city & get $3.8 million - at least Rodney King did. Unfortunately Reginald Denny - still apparently impaired (he remains private) got nothing - lawsuit failed.

See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/henry-watson-reginald-denny_n_1453353.html

Seth says

M 2012-04-29 07:48:51 15913

MOB ACTION & subsequent consequences - 20th anniversary passed. One black man severly beaten up by the police, jury did not convict the cops until later - 53 people murdered by the mobs.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/29/for-22-murder-victims-la-riots-leave-legacy-justice-eluded/ some murders still unsolved.

Way to go, eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King "Can't we all just Get Along"

Thing is, civil unrest does cause political reform. There are many examples of it. Even the Rodney King riots caused much needed reform of the LosAngeles police.

Way to go? I don't need to judge ... i did not riot; but i moved up here to Washington partially as a result of the riots.

Mark de LA says

M 2012-04-29 07:48:51 15913

Way to go, eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King "Can't we all just Get Along"

& then there's Reginald Denny, a white construction truck driver, was beaten nearly to death by a group of black assailants who came to be known as the "L.A. Four". The attack was captured by a Los Angeles News Service helicopter piloted by Bob Tur and shot by Marika Tur. The video was broadcast live on US national television.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Denny_incident

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-04-29 10:12:02 15913

M 2012-04-29 09:44:41 15913

seth 2012-04-29 09:28:11 15913

M 2012-04-29 08:12:34 15913

I totally agree that morality extends beyond the individual to the groups in which the individual participates.

I do not feel any need to generalize my statement, "civil unrest does cause political reform. There are many examples of it. Even the Rodney King riots caused much needed reform of the LosAngeles police", to some binary judgement "that civil unrest of the quality of the LA Riots was good" ... or bad.

Selective morality - interesting! The LA Riots were morally good? Is that kinda the ends justifies the means? We got change in the LA police department & along the way the public outrage about Rodney King, 53 people killed, scores of businesses torched were just part of stage setting that got to the good? end?

Change always has its cost. Lack of change also has its cost.

I have no real idea what you wish to imply by labeling this "selective morality" ... as far as i can tell we each select our actions consulting our morality. In this case I did not participate in the riots, even though I was present in LA when they happened. In fact i sought out awareness of the event and actually visited the corner where Reginald Denny was maimed ... though not exactly during that event. But this event was otherness to me and i have no need to judge it.

I guess then that if LA history repeats itself in Florida you will have nothing to do with nor judge that either.

I should have called that ad hoc (or situational) morality instead.

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-04-29 09:28:11 15913

M 2012-04-29 08:12:34 15913

Mark de LA says

Seth(above): ... Change always has its cost. Lack of change also has its cost.

... Sometimes change has no cost & lack of change also has no cost too! How could those changes, whatever they were, have been achieved without the fires, beatings & killings?

Seth says

M 2012-04-29 10:40:51 15913

seth 2012-04-29 10:12:02 15913

M 2012-04-29 09:44:41 15913

seth 2012-04-29 09:28:11 15913

M 2012-04-29 08:12:34 15913

I guess then that if LA history repeats itself in Florida you will have nothing to do with nor judge that either.

I should have called that ad hoc (or situational) morality instead.

Well, yes, my morality is sensitive to the context or situation in which i find myself. A hard fast rule conceived a long time ago could never be as useful to me to solve an ethical quandary as the knowledge of the history and particulars of the situation itself.

If Zimmerman is found not guilty of murder, there may well be riots. If that happens i don't anticipate that I will be rioting, whether or not I would judge him guilty after the trial myself ... and whether or not i feel any outrage at a miscarriage of justice, the way i felt after the Rodney King verdicts. If there are riots, I will feel the pain of the civil unrest ... but it will feel like otherness to me... not something that i have any involvement or cause with. So, no, i truly doubt that i will be thinking something like "these riots are bad".

Mark de LA says

So let me tease this out a little bit more. So if you don't judge the LA riots are bad because of the murders which you didn't participate in how can you judge GZimmerman as bad if he killed TMartin which you didn't participate in? Or for that matte how can you be anti-war since for you, you are participating in none of that stuff. And, what do you make of the commandment "Thou shalt not kill?" - is that too religious for you & only applies if you, yourself are doing it?

Mark de LA says

M 2012-04-29 11:21:34 15913

... & would only conclude "murder is bad" after finishing doing it?

Another way of asking this is "How do you know murder is bad unless you try it?"

Mark de LA says

In my mind there are only a few degrees of separation between MOB action & WAR. There were times in the LA Riots where it looked like a small war especially when the National Guard was called out & the fires were set all over the place. Civil unrest can become uncivil unrest real easy depending on the morality of the participants.

Mark de LA says

Well I condemn those who murdered in the LA riots & also beat others senseless. I see NO good in what they did or what came from any of it that couldn't have been accomplished by people who were rational &/or had some morality. Those who would incite the same if they don't like the outcome in Florida would be even stupider & should be put in jail if such happens. I don't know of anyone that got jailed for inciting the riots in LA.

GZ has to live with his guilt/outcome whatever it is & in the hereafter. Indeed, it not for others to judge - except for the jury & the legal system.
OTOH, the Golden Rule is for me the supreme morality which does not devolve to an eye for an eye but is congruent with the ten commandments. We'll see how that works out in the end. Mob action is incongruent with either. Due process is. I prefer isolation of the guilty so that they can have lots of time to reflect & process remorse. I don't like the modern prison system at all as it fosters more evil & more violence. I don't like capital punishment except for treason - if someone wages war against this country they deserve to die, imho. That may not seem congruent to you. OTOH, complete isolation would work as well as long as I never have to hear or see them again. Endless possibilities of parole & wasting of the state's resources seem pointless to me.

Seth says

M 2012-04-29 11:19:58 15913

Mark, for me it comes down to what I would do were i to judge ... in other words what actions verbal or otherwise would i take ... and what intention would i form for them ... what purpose would i have. But i can see nothing to be accomplished by my railing against the dastardly acts perptrated 20 years ago during the Rodney King riots ... nor, for that matter, can i see anything to be gained now by railing against the brutality dolled out by the police in LA prior to those riots. For me all of that is otherness. Nevertheless I can look at the riots and notice their effect on the history of LosAngeles.

I think the distinction that you are teasing out is the difference between recognizing an act as contra-productive, evil, dastardly, whatever ... and actively shaming the person who did the act publicly in the world, whether he hears you or not. As every action causes a reaction back against my being ... is it not rational to avoid such a negative reaction coming back on me? The old "judge not, least ye be judged" comes rapidly to mind here.

Were i to intentionally carry a gun unnecessarily into a situation fraught with the peril of conflict and killed an unarmed man, then i could not, in all honesty judge that i had not murdered him. Were i to sit on Zimmerman's jury, and were those be the facts which were proven without a reasonable doubt, then my judgement would be that he was guilty of murder. So if the joury is presented with those facts and still finds Zimmerman not guilty, I will probably feel outrage, but I will not go out in the streets and riot. I will however, if there are riots in Seattle, go take some pictures. For me, it is all just awareness ... just pattern recognition ... when i am not involved it is otherness to me.

source: M continues ...
Or for that matte how can you be anti-war since for you, you are participating in none of that stuff.

I am against war, it is barbaric, it is a throwback. I believe the human race is maturing to a point where we can leave it in the past. Whenever i get a chance I will speak and act to lend my voice to decrease the chances that countries go to war. When a nation goes to war, every citizen of that nation is responsible for that war to some degree. That is how i "participate in that stuff".

source: M continues ...
And, what do you make of the commandment "Thou shalt not kill?" - is that too religious for you & only applies if you, yourself are doing it?

Well its kind of silly to think it applies to me if i'm not the one doing it.

Incidentally I like the commandment. Independently of it I have seriously posed the question to myself ... would i kill someone? ... and i would not, just as i would not want someone to kill me ... I don't really need the religious commandment to authenticate my decision ... but at the same time I like that it is there ... mostly so others don't take liberties with my poor body

Notice my responses here are related to Towards My Rational Morality.

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-04-30 09:09:47 15913

I'm just saying that spending my time harshly judging others does not help me or mine. Without that judgmental emotion surging through my veins i can better see both sides of an issue.

Yep, kinda like your comments on 15904 .

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-04-30 10:18:09 15913

M 2012-04-30 07:24:37 15913

Well there is a lot of truth in what you say here. Still and all we do not want to eliminate using civil unrest to effect political change. Do we?

Peaceful resistance: Alinsky Rules for Radicals & Gene Sharp's Methods of Nonviolent Action are fine with me. Follow Gandhi or MLK - I don't care. When you agitate for violence, burn businesses down & beat someone senseless you or take out a million$ bounty on GZ - you have crossed the line. Violence usually begets violence! The rules of the RWG have not been repealed yet, eh?

Mark de LA says

BTW I mentioned Gene Sharp months ago after I got his book. He is an old person who didn't communicate well in a video I saw. I hope he's not just being used by people juicing up polarity. Alinsky & Sharp can be used by either side of a controversy - beware! I like in particular R4R#5(ridicule) for well known targets.

Tweeting & Blogging on a lower plane

About: twitter hoaxer comes clean and says: i did it to expose weak media | technology | guardian.co.uk

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