Individualist Anarchism -vs- Propaganda of the Deed
About: article: individualist anarchism
Rudolf Steiner (~ 1898): ...
Thus I would indeed like to speak once distinctly. The “individualist anarchist” wants no person to be hindered by anything in being able to bring to unfolding the abilities and forces that lie in him. Individuals should assert themselves in a fully free battle of competition. The present state has no sense for this battle of competition. It hinders the individual at every step in the unfolding of his abilities. It hates the individual. It says: I can only use a person who behaves thus and thus. Whoever is different, I shall force him to become the way I want. Now the state believes people can only get along if one tells them: you must be like this. And if you are not like that, then you’ll just have to " be like that anyway. The individualist anarchist, on the other hand, holds that the best situation would result if one would give people free way. He has the trust that they would find their direction themselves. Naturally he does not believe that the day after tomorrow there would be no more pickpockets if one would abolish the state tomorrow. But he knows that one cannot by authority and force educate people to freeness. He knows this one thing: one clears the way for the most independent people by doing away with all force and authority.
...
If Rudolf Steiner had a facebook exchange might it be something like this?
5/3/2012
Given our commentary I would say that's a huge GD NO!
Tags
- individual anarchism
- propaganda of the deed
- rudolf steiner
- riots
- may day seattle 2012
- occupy x
- item 15974
- anarchy
- mobs
- individualism
Comments
Seth says
Well we don't need to carry RWG to ultimate extremes ... sometimes it's necessary to back away and not push the confrontation.
Here we see Seattle's finest guarding an empty street keeping the crowd out of it in preparation for the march. During the march the police did not oppose it in the least.
I asked an officer why they were guarding the street ... he said he didn't know but when his Sergeant returned he would ask ... i didn't wait around.
M 2012-05-03 15:07:09 15974
seth 2012-05-03 13:16:27 15974
To your first clause i totally agree. But to your second, italicized clause, i totally disagree. Most humans are involved in Force vs Resistance to some degree in our lives ... "none of us are amateurs" and "all of us are amateurs" where it comes to those experiences ... leaving that to Gods is something for the ancient Greeks ... not modern man.
source: M above [emphasis mine]
Force vs resistance is an incredibly powerful Zen being; maybe leave that to the gods & not the amateurs at home.
Force vs resistance is an incredibly powerful Zen being; maybe leave that to the gods & not the amateurs at home.
To your first clause i totally agree. But to your second, italicized clause, i totally disagree. Most humans are involved in Force vs Resistance to some degree in our lives ... "none of us are amateurs" and "all of us are amateurs" where it comes to those experiences ... leaving that to Gods is something for the ancient Greeks ... not modern man. Well, on occasion us mortals get a nice whiff of what the RWG is all about ~ every generation or so, gods or no gods : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-22tna7KHzI
Well we don't need to carry RWG to ultimate extremes ... sometimes it's necessary to back away and not push the confrontation.
Here we see Seattle's finest guarding an empty street keeping the crowd out of it in preparation for the march. During the march the police did not oppose it in the least.
I asked an officer why they were guarding the street ... he said he didn't know but when his Sergeant returned he would ask ... i didn't wait around.
Mark de LA says
... & 113.5 years later the U.S. President maintains an enemies list for political coersion.
WSJ: ... Several days later, President Barack Obama, the most powerful man on the planet, singles you out by name. His campaign brands you a Romney donor, shames you for "betting against America," and accuses you of having a "less-than-reputable" record. The message from the man who controls the Justice Department (which can indict you), the SEC (which can fine you), and the IRS (which can audit you), is clear: You made a mistake donating that money.
The Obama campaign has justified any action on the grounds that it has a right to "hold the eventual Republican nominee accountable," but this is a dodge. Politics is rough, but a president has obligations that transcend those of a candidate. He swore an oath to protect and defend a Constitution that gives every American the right to partake in democracy, free of fear of government intimidation or disfavored treatment. If Mr. Obama isn't going to act like a president, he bolsters the argument that he doesn't deserve to be one.
...
Mark de LA says
It's early in the day. There has been violence & destruction before each time the Global Economists (G-20 etc) meet & the Anarchists demonstrate. Perhaps that's all later in Chicago for the NATO summity
seth 2012-05-01 07:16:52 15974
source: M above
<== is this the symbol of it all?
Nope, that is a picture you dredged up and affixed here. There are no firers like that being set. You are associating violence to these demonstrations yourself. I just want to be clear on that.
It's early in the day. There has been violence & destruction before each time the Global Economists (G-20 etc) meet & the Anarchists demonstrate. Perhaps that's all later in Chicago for the NATO summity P.S> That's Drudge's dredge. 
I like poignant pictures for punctuating piddles of prose.
I like poignant pictures for punctuating piddles of prose.
Mark de LA says
Perhaps Seth would prefer these images (prolly the latter) for May Day celebrations:
Mark de LA says
... Speaking of Anarchy & the Propaganda of the Deed - (Without Purpose except destruction) Here are Drudge Headlines this Am: (May Day)
Seth says
source: Seattle Times May Day protests: traffic jams or worse?
May Day protests, marches and entertainment are likely to cause traffic disruptions in Seattle on Tuesday. Authorities are warning that there's a possibility peaceful demonstrations will be disrupted by people wanting to incite mayhem.
May Day protests, marches and entertainment are likely to cause traffic disruptions in Seattle on Tuesday. Authorities are warning that there's a possibility peaceful demonstrations will be disrupted by people wanting to incite mayhem.
apparently this is the rout ... too bad it is not a zoomed image
Mark de LA says
seth 2012-05-01 07:09:30 15974
source: M commenting on May Day riots
... Speaking of Anarchy & the Propaganda of the Deed - (Without Purpose except destruction) Here are Drudge Headlines this Am: (May Day)
... Speaking of Anarchy & the Propaganda of the Deed - (Without Purpose except destruction) Here are Drudge Headlines this Am: (May Day)
The "without purpose" is, of course, just your opinion ... those doing it would not assent.
Looks like things are going to be happening in Seattle as well ... ... i wonder if i should go get some pictures.
Looks like things are going to be happening in Seattle as well ...
... i wonder if i should go get some pictures. KEWL - so what's the purpose? ... to FUCK THINGS UP? I call that without purpose.
Mark de LA says
But the YOU has the anarchist logo within it!
seth 2012-05-04 08:20:34 15974
... Nope. Only the Anarchists themselves wore the face scarves ... for only they expected to involve themselves in a gassing. But in a way it was more just their style.
source: M speculates re girl with fuck you ass hole sign
Maybe she is just saying "Fuck You" to the Anarchists!
Maybe she is just saying "Fuck You" to the Anarchists!
But the YOU has the anarchist logo within it!
Mark de LA says
Continuing WH agitprop:
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/ahead-may-day-obama-delivers-class-warfare/510926
(above): ... The president warned union members that Republicans would rather give "rich folks" more tax breaks, than invest in the American worker.
"Republicans in Congress would rather put fewer of you to work rebuilding America than ask millionaires and billionaires to live without massive new tax cuts on top of the ones they’ve already gotten," Obama declared in a speech to to construction union members at the Hilton hotel in Washington
"Republicans in Congress would rather put fewer of you to work rebuilding America than ask millionaires and billionaires to live without massive new tax cuts on top of the ones they’ve already gotten," Obama declared in a speech to to construction union members at the Hilton hotel in Washington
...
Seth says
Well the police came well prepared for much more than they encountered ... so i guess the "rioters" were well advised to anticipate pepper spray and/or tear gas. By the time i got to the scene there was not any violence happening ... the closest i got was when demonstrators were pushed out of the intersection and i was caught behind a rush to move back. During the whole day there was an air of tension and anticipation but the policie maintained calm and were professional and there was not all that much animosity launched in their direction.
source: M informs
The, mask is traditional for tear gas as well.
The, mask is traditional for tear gas as well.
Well the police came well prepared for much more than they encountered ... so i guess the "rioters" were well advised to anticipate pepper spray and/or tear gas. By the time i got to the scene there was not any violence happening ... the closest i got was when demonstrators were pushed out of the intersection and i was caught behind a rush to move back. During the whole day there was an air of tension and anticipation but the policie maintained calm and were professional and there was not all that much animosity launched in their direction.
Mark de LA says
seth 2012-05-03 08:18:14 15974
source: M above
For some strange reason you seem think you can force the discussion to your own conclusions & interests & ignore what I deem to be a relevant perspective on my own item.
For some strange reason you seem think you can force the discussion to your own conclusions & interests & ignore what I deem to be a relevant perspective on my own item.
Well for any synergy to happen you might want to try strategies other than mismatching and stubbornness ... like for example cooperation and tolerance of otherness
Like your content-free innuendo? I asked you here & elsewhere to view the Tony Robbins video to get an idea of the magnitude of the yearly 2.X trillion debt that Congress & the President are creating & how there are not enough rich people & corporations to pay that outright each year & you keep coming back with refusals & excuses. Try the video & then make criticism. Otherwise I must only conclude you just don't want to face it & would rather megaphone WH talking points & Robin Hood philosophy!
Mark de LA says
Meanwhile back at the symbol:
My Way News: ... Black-clad protesters in Seattle used sticks to smash small downtown windows and ran through the streets disrupting traffic.
...
Mark de LA says
(possibly a new logo for the RWG?)
This one surfaced today on Facebook: http://on.fb.me/J3TuO0
(possibly a new logo for the RWG?)
Mark de LA says
M 2012-05-03 10:43:13 15974
Its a shame that more of the people don't get that violence begets violence. Eventually, if it persists or goes more angry the anarchists will beget a police state which, oddly enough, could presumably be the exact opposite of what an anarchist should want. OTOH, maybe what an anarchist wants is just destruction - fire for effect!
An inspirational picture of the police state (TSA version)
Seth says
The crowd kept changing "Let Him Go" and words to the effect that he didn't do anything. Apparently he was a medic, you can see the + sign on his arm. He was trying to get his friends to call his mother. Somebody in the crowd told me that they arrested him because they thought he was involved in the vandalism on 6th Ave earlier in the day.
...........................................................................................................
M 2012-05-03 12:14:26 15974
Any more to the story anywhere?
seth 2012-05-03 11:34:45 15974
Well it is certainly true that "violence begets violence".
Here we have a medic arrested long after the violence apparently just on suspicion of participation in the earlier event. His face expresses the message heard many times from the crowd ... "but i didn't do anything". I'm not sure how to read the expression on the cop's face.
M 2012-05-03 10:46:10 15974
M 2012-05-03 10:43:13 15974
Its a shame that more of the people don't get that violence begets violence. Eventually, if it persists or goes more angry the anarchists will beget a police state which, oddly enough, could presumably be the exact opposite of what an anarchist should want. OTOH, maybe what an anarchist wants is just destruction - fire for effect!
An inspirational picture of the police state (TSA version)
Well it is certainly true that "violence begets violence".
Here we have a medic arrested long after the violence apparently just on suspicion of participation in the earlier event. His face expresses the message heard many times from the crowd ... "but i didn't do anything". I'm not sure how to read the expression on the cop's face.
Any more to the story anywhere?
I could interpret the message on the face of the cop as amusement as the perp tries to spin an incredible lie. I don't & probably won't ever know. Force vs resistance is an incredibly powerful Zen being; maybe leave that to the gods & not the amateurs at home.
For much more on this story you would need to find where it is blogged about or even follow the public court proceedings. All i have is my own eye witness account and what i photographed. I was a couple of blocks away in front of the Federal Building when a group of police got on their bikes and hurried down the street. When i got there he was already under arrest. Finally they took him away in a paddy waggon and the crowd dispersed in the rain back to Westlake park. Here is the other picture I have and a picture of what may have ben his backpack.
The crowd kept changing "Let Him Go" and words to the effect that he didn't do anything. Apparently he was a medic, you can see the + sign on his arm. He was trying to get his friends to call his mother. Somebody in the crowd told me that they arrested him because they thought he was involved in the vandalism on 6th Ave earlier in the day.
...........................................................................................................
Mark de LA says
Any more to the story anywhere?
seth 2012-05-03 11:34:45 15974
Well it is certainly true that "violence begets violence".
Here we have a medic arrested long after the violence apparently just on suspicion of participation in the earlier event. His face expresses the message heard many times from the crowd ... "but i didn't do anything". I'm not sure how to read the expression on the cop's face.
M 2012-05-03 10:46:10 15974
M 2012-05-03 10:43:13 15974
Its a shame that more of the people don't get that violence begets violence. Eventually, if it persists or goes more angry the anarchists will beget a police state which, oddly enough, could presumably be the exact opposite of what an anarchist should want. OTOH, maybe what an anarchist wants is just destruction - fire for effect!
An inspirational picture of the police state (TSA version)
Well it is certainly true that "violence begets violence".
Here we have a medic arrested long after the violence apparently just on suspicion of participation in the earlier event. His face expresses the message heard many times from the crowd ... "but i didn't do anything". I'm not sure how to read the expression on the cop's face.
Any more to the story anywhere?
I could interpret the message on the face of the cop as amusement as the perp tries to spin an incredible lie. I don't & probably won't ever know. Force vs resistance is an incredibly powerful Zen being; maybe leave that to the gods & not the amateurs at home.
Mark de LA says
seth 2012-05-03 13:16:27 15974
To your first clause i totally agree. But to your second, italicized clause, i totally disagree. Most humans are involved in Force vs Resistance to some degree in our lives ... "none of us are amateurs" and "all of us are amateurs" where it comes to those experiences ... leaving that to Gods is something for the ancient Greeks ... not modern man.
source: M above [emphasis mine]
Force vs resistance is an incredibly powerful Zen being; maybe leave that to the gods & not the amateurs at home.
Force vs resistance is an incredibly powerful Zen being; maybe leave that to the gods & not the amateurs at home.
To your first clause i totally agree. But to your second, italicized clause, i totally disagree. Most humans are involved in Force vs Resistance to some degree in our lives ... "none of us are amateurs" and "all of us are amateurs" where it comes to those experiences ... leaving that to Gods is something for the ancient Greeks ... not modern man. Well, on occasion us mortals get a nice whiff of what the RWG is all about ~ every generation or so, gods or no gods : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-22tna7KHzI
Seth says
Here is another picture of the police guarding an empty street, perhaps to contain the crowd ... i don't know.
Here is another picture of the police guarding an empty street, perhaps to contain the crowd ... i don't know.
Mark de LA says
One thingy I noticed about my dog is that dogs in general do not back down from a fight. They do not back down even if the fight is unbalanced - a small dog against a large dog for example. The only thing that makes them quit is serious injury & defeat or death. I observed the other day that the owners of dogs in a fight emulate their dogs if their dogs get in a fight with others. It seems as if basic instincts are perpetuated all the way up from the bottom of the tree.
Mark de LA says
M 2012-05-03 09:30:58 15974
seth 2012-05-03 09:21:11 15974
Well they got a lot of memories for sure. Of "lasting value" ... seems to me that this was echos of the anarchism started way back in the 19th century ... and is in stark contrast to the attitudes of mainstream America today.
The words on this sign struck me as perhaps having some truthiness. Note the scarfs worn over the nose and mouth ... they were very common in the rally. One girl told me they were worn because of anticipation of pepper spray that had been deployed earlier.
and the other side of her sign ....
wait for it ...
wait for it ...
........................................................
How is her way of life the one that is sustainable? ... & maybe then, pondering that, she is the one who should fuck herself (unless she is just soliciting clients) . The, mask is traditional for tear gas as well.
seth 2012-05-03 09:21:11 15974 source: M asks above
what do you suppose they accomplished of any lasting value? What do you think they wanted - apparently few could put it into words.
what do you suppose they accomplished of any lasting value? What do you think they wanted - apparently few could put it into words.
The words on this sign struck me as perhaps having some truthiness. Note the scarfs worn over the nose and mouth ... they were very common in the rally. One girl told me they were worn because of anticipation of pepper spray that had been deployed earlier.
and the other side of her sign ....
wait for it ...
wait for it ...
........................................................
How is her way of life the one that is sustainable? ... & maybe then, pondering that, she is the one who should fuck herself (unless she is just soliciting clients) . The, mask is traditional for tear gas as well.
Maybe she is just saying "Fuck You" to the Anarchists!
Mark de LA says
M 2012-05-03 23:59:10 15974
Seth(above): ... I noticed you changed my "back away" to "back down" ... quite a bit of difference there, me thinks.
Stopping a government must be hard ... it does not back down ... ever!
Stopping a government must be hard ... it does not back down ... ever!
... I didn't change anything of yours. I just told you an anectdote about fighting that I noticed the other day. It has metaphors which apply to the RWG & animal behavior applicable to dogs & humans. Apply it any way you like (or ignore it or something else). Some people seem to live to fight.
So Dear Bro, tease out further why & what exactly you wanted out of pointing out a distinction between backing down & backing away (or backing off for that matter) . What do you think they all mean in the context of the topic?
Seth says
I did not know that about dogs. Perhaps that is why it is so terrible to unleash the dogs of war.
I noticed you changed my "back away" to "back down" ... quite a bit of difference there, me thinks.
Stopping a government must be hard ... it does not back down ... ever!
M 2012-05-03 17:48:16 15974
One thingy I noticed about my dog is that dogs in general do not back down from a fight. They do not back down even if the fight is unbalanced - a small dog against a large dog for example. The only thing that makes them quit is serious injury & defeat or death. I observed the other day that the owners of dogs in a fight emulate their dogs if their dogs get in a fight with others. It seems as if basic instincts are perpetuated all the way up from the bottom of the tree.
I did not know that about dogs. Perhaps that is why it is so terrible to unleash the dogs of war.
I noticed you changed my "back away" to "back down" ... quite a bit of difference there, me thinks.
Stopping a government must be hard ... it does not back down ... ever!
Mark de LA says
Yep, who's the real Greedy One?
seth 2012-05-04 09:09:19 15974
Capitalist struggle over money. This guy was doing a find job of portraying the caricature.
seth 2012-05-04 08:58:55 15974
An older black woman walked up to me and begged for money for food. She was a street person, and not one of the anarchists. Her weathered face and tattered clothes spoke volumes about her life. As it happened i had just left a coffee house where i had partaken of a mocha chai and some mango ice cream while i sucked on the WiFi from my Verizon HotSpot and updated my Facebook page. I still had the change from my last and only $20 bill free in my pocket. I reach in and pulled out the wad of it. The $10 was on top and folded in it was 3 dollar bills. I wanted to give the woman something which i felt was somewhat significant ... so i peeled off the $10 and handed it to her. To my surprise she grabbed the other three dollars and held them fast in her hand even though i still had a hold on them myself. She would not let go. I would not let go. Like your cartoon we struggled over it. She pleading money for the bus. I telling her the ten was enough and that was all i had. It was my money. I pried it out of her hand. She was taking it from me by force. It was no longer a charitable gift.
M 2012-05-04 08:01:18 15974
Your cartoon reminds me of what will probably be the most indelible image in my mind from the evening. Sorry, no picture available. This one surfaced today on Facebook: http://on.fb.me/J3TuO0
(possibly a new logo for the RWG?)
An older black woman walked up to me and begged for money for food. She was a street person, and not one of the anarchists. Her weathered face and tattered clothes spoke volumes about her life. As it happened i had just left a coffee house where i had partaken of a mocha chai and some mango ice cream while i sucked on the WiFi from my Verizon HotSpot and updated my Facebook page. I still had the change from my last and only $20 bill free in my pocket. I reach in and pulled out the wad of it. The $10 was on top and folded in it was 3 dollar bills. I wanted to give the woman something which i felt was somewhat significant ... so i peeled off the $10 and handed it to her. To my surprise she grabbed the other three dollars and held them fast in her hand even though i still had a hold on them myself. She would not let go. I would not let go. Like your cartoon we struggled over it. She pleading money for the bus. I telling her the ten was enough and that was all i had. It was my money. I pried it out of her hand. She was taking it from me by force. It was no longer a charitable gift.
Capitalist struggle over money. This guy was doing a find job of portraying the caricature.
Yep, who's the real Greedy One?
Wait for it or go to 15944
Mark de LA says
... & now the NATO summit in CHICAGO: (... VIA DRUDGE)
Mob wielding hammers, batons attack diners...
Police Raid Chicago Apartment, Seize Beer-Making Equipment...
'Conspiracy to commit terror'...
40 Fed Agencies Man Secret Command Center Near NATO meet site...
REPORT: City's website hacked...
LIVE...
Police Raid Chicago Apartment, Seize Beer-Making Equipment...
'Conspiracy to commit terror'...
40 Fed Agencies Man Secret Command Center Near NATO meet site...
REPORT: City's website hacked...
LIVE...
WELCOME TO CHICAGO
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