Recap Senses

About: Tai Shu P.1243 - 12 Senses

Interesting I ran  into this on the 12 senses and in one sentence found the following:
source: ... These fall naturally into three groups: the five soul senses = sight, hearing, taste, smell & touch; the four bodily , balance, motion, life & warmth; & the three spiritual, of speech, thought & ego.  The sense of speech enables us to discern the meaning behind words; the sense of thought apprehends the thought of another person & the sense of ego tells us that there is another "I" besides our own.
... seems to correlate to something I said to Seth the other day.
 
 

Tags

  1. senses
  2. twelve senses

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2012-07-14 11:57:35 16083
M 2012-07-14 11:18:59 16083
seth 2012-07-14 10:53:29 16083
i'm thinking you would end up with a better result if you uploaded the image to fastblogit directly ... then one could zoom in one's browser to the best resolution for one's viewing screen.
I had trouble resizing but finally got it down to a size you accept as shown above.
I can read it fine now, thanks.

It is interesting that GW calls "sense of ego" what i call "otherness", rather than a sense of self. 
     Ego is Latin for "I am" - not peculiar to me. RS uses it a lot.  There are a lot of self thingies hanging around, especially in doubles. Otherness works for me.
     I spent some time in contemplation intensives with Peter Ralston after the grok of "who am I?" seemed exhausted & went on to his second question which was "what is another?" ... the last question of that series was "what is life?". I managed to get some direct experience of all of them. That doesn't finish it though because the # of answers is similar to the number of eruptions of a volcano.


Mark de LA says
seth 2012-07-14 12:17:48 16083
What's the difference between "experience" and "direct experience" ? 
Good question!  Probably, leaving out the cognizing step & mind stuff for starts.  PR usually introduces the distinction as neither direct nor experience, but those are the best words he had to use.  I kinda like grok except it is painted with the baggage of know. My experience of it is simply there is little to question about it; it being more like encountering a percept without the cognizing mind stuff that usually follows.


Seth says
MR 2012-07-14 12:25:06 16083
seth 2012-07-14 12:17:48 16083
What's the difference between "experience" and "direct experience" ? 
Good question!  Probably, leaving out the cognizing step & mind stuff for starts.  PR usually introduces the distinction as neither direct nor experience, but those are the best words he had to use.  I kinda like grok except it is painted with the baggage of know. My experience of it is simply there is little to question about it; it being more like encountering a percept without the cognizing mind stuff that usually follows.

Ok i think i know what you are talking about.  I don't do much of it.   And, what i have experienced like that, i tend not to remember,  and have no way of  talking about it. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-07-15 11:04:27 16083
MR 2012-07-14 12:25:06 16083
seth 2012-07-14 12:17:48 16083
What's the difference between "experience" and "direct experience" ? 
Good question!  Probably, leaving out the cognizing step & mind stuff for starts.  PR usually introduces the distinction as neither direct nor experience, but those are the best words he had to use.  I kinda like grok except it is painted with the baggage of know. My experience of it is simply there is little to question about it; it being more like encountering a percept without the cognizing mind stuff that usually follows.

Ok i think i know what you are talking about.  I don't do much of it.   And, what i have experienced like that, i tend not to remember,  and have no way of  talking about it. 
Recently I have been working on the memory part. P.1688 commentary hints similarly:

 ... Spiritual experience, unlike physical, is not remembered, but must be recreated anew each time, often in a different way, only the results, not the method being the same. Recognition spiritually this involves more positive action. This approach is shown in application & interpretation of this fourth line. To see something spiritual we have to go where it is.

That may be why most of the Zen methods uses time worn koans as stepping stones or questions. I try to create my own scenario or symbol to get me back to the places sometimes using a ming character.


Mark de LA says
FYI there is a series of lectures by Rudolf Steiner called The World of the Senses and the World of the Spirit (6 Lectures given at Hanover 27 December 1911 - 1st January 1912) available at the RSeLib here: http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/WorlSensSpir/WoSeSp_index.html


Mark de LA says
There is also a lecture series on the 12 senses. Quote from the first lecture seems to be an interesting pursuit:
I said a long time ago, and I am always repeating it, that orthodox science takes into consideration only those senses for which obvious organs exist, such as the organs of sight, of hearing, and so on. This way of looking at the matter is not satisfactory, because the province of sight, for example, is strictly delimited within the total range of our experiences, and so, equally, is, let us say, the perception of the ego of another man, or the perception of the meaning of words. To-day, when everything is in a way turned upside down, it has even become customary to say that when we are face to face with another ego, what we see first is the human form; we know that we ourselves have such a form, that in us this form harbours an ego, and so we conclude that there is also an ego in this other human form which resembles our own. In drawing such a conclusion there is not the slightest real consciousness of what lies behind the wholly direct perception of the other ego. Such an inference is meaningless. For just as we stand before the outer world and take in a certain part of it directly with our sense of sight, so, in exactly the same way, the other ego penetrates directly into the sphere of our experience. We must ascribe to ourselves an ego-sense, just as we do a sense of sight. At the same time we must be quite clear that this ego-sense is something quite other than the development of consciousness of our own ego. Becoming conscious of one’s own ego is not actually a perception; it is a completely different process from the process which takes place when we perceive another ego.

 


Mark de LA says
RS’s diagram from the above reference:

Mark de LA says
Some words for the diagram above:

If we want to show this diagrammatically, we should have to show it like this (see diagram). We draw a circle around the upper region; and there in this upper sphere lies our true inner life. Without these external senses, this inner life could not exist. What sort of men should we be if we had no other egos near us, if we were never to perceive words and thoughts? Just imagine! On the other hand, the senses from taste downwards (see diagram B) perceive in an inward direction, transmit primarily inward processes, but processes which become progressively more obscure. Of course, a man must have a clear perception of his own balance otherwise he would become giddy and collapse. 


Si says
Now that makes sense!

He is notably missing the sense of “emotion”, but that is not surprising considering how drastically emotions were being downplayed in the culture that existed during his lifetime. It is easy to miss things that are so deeply rooted in your being because they were the norm as you grew up.  

Mark de LA says
RS doesn’t have emotion as a sense only the sense of balance & motions.  You are still LOA brainwashing everything you post. Read his explanation of the diagram. Note particularly those indicated to be related to feeling. smug

Si says
I could just as easily say you are “stuck in the ideas of the last century” as you can say “I am LOA brainwashed”. Knowledge and understanding evolves. No single person has ever had all of it complete or right. I see that the diagram above is correct as it is, and that knowledge has evolved beyond it too.

Mark de LA says
Seth should particularly like this because it resolves some of the inside/outside stuff he likes to talk about. thumbs upcool

Mark de LA says
Until you came along then ……….laughinglaughinglaughinglaughing

Si says
Huh?

Mark de LA says
You won’t grasp that until your Ego snaps! laughing

Si says
Well it seems like you are saying a “Steiner” can come along, a “Peter Rolstin” can come along, a “Tony Robbins” can come a long, but a “Nathan” cant? What’s the diff? I’m here aren’t I?

Seth says

Seth says
it’s strange … all gurus say, think for yourself.  then when we do, somebody screams fowl.  laugh

Seth says
yes, good stuff indeed yes.  but i will not be thinking about it this morning … got to prepare for the Harvest Mayhem … and i am already very comfortable with what is inside and outside of me, so don’t even need to be thinking about it this morning … rather i am just going to do my experience of it for all around.

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
Maybe Naything could learn to spell Peter’s name or perhaps watch the video of Tony Robbins:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5151716/  – “I Am Not Your Guru” laughing

Si says
I have watched it and already commented elsewhere that I fully agree, and I am not your guru. Steiner and the rest were not gurus either … they just lived their passion and said what came out of that. Others guruified them, while they were living, or later. No one has guruified me and it is none of my business if anyone does or not … that’s their business.  

Why is spelling his name important? You clearly know what I mean with my spelling.

Seth says
i don’t understand why a “mark all read” does not also do a “safely refresh 3.0 page” so that after i click the one, i don’t have to go click the other too to get the true benefit of a mark all read. 

Si says
It is in the plans, but not that way. It should be done locally so that all the software and state does not have to be reloaded from the server. It is in the plans, when I get to it.

Right now, even just going to another thought clears the yellow out, so it isn’t a big deal unless you are just staying on the same thought. It is in the plans, when I get to it.

Mark de LA says
You know what I meant with spellings too! laughing 

Seth says

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 21243

Si says
No I don’t. My whole life people have seemed to have a hangup with spelling. I have never gotten why. It makes no difference as long as people understand each other, and mostly they do spelling wise. Bad spelling almost never gets in the way of understanding, other things in communication have much greater effects.

Mark de LA says
see 21239 cool

Seth says

Mark de LA says

Seth says
well complaining about a person’s spelling is a very easy way to be right at sombody elses  expense of being wrong.  that said, occasionally mark complains about something that i misspelled that really does need to be corrected for all around not to misunderstand.

Mark de LA says
Having learned how to spell & write correct grammar a misspelling usually sidetracks me from the message. If you don’t care I don’t either. I like pictures and music anyway instead a pile of words some made up & some spelled according to one’s individuality.


Seth says
oh kewl … i too can be right now at mark’s expense of being wrong … look …

me, i have learned how to read even text that is misspelled and not get distracted from the author’s meaning.   even to the point that i noticed myself reading sombody and thinking, “omg he is a terrible speller”, then i noticed that he was writing in German   ← semi true story.

Mark de LA says
Good for you – must have read 21239 

Mark de LA says
For the spelling pro/con crowd here is the game itself: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/cna-yuo-raed-tihs/ 

fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too. Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno’t mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghi t pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.
 



Si says
Yes, I am sorry you were forced to go through all that as a kid Mark. Them were sad times. I had some of that, but not as much. And kids today have it much better. They have techniques, like NLP, to learn to spell easily with and nowdays no one cares if kids can spell anyway because there are spell checkers and freedom of expression etc. The multiverse continues to evolve and we leave outdated things behind.  

Si says

Si says
Zactly! No trouble reading that at all! I love it when my point is validated so clearly!  

Mark de LA says
nver had a pbrolem – wnsa’t froecd jsut yuor hngaup not mnie! 

Si says
Not sure what you mean there. You said I should learn how to spell Peters name. If your saying that doesn’t matter to you, then great! I don’t see why it matters if you knew who I was talking about. And I guess that’s now an end to our discovery.  

Si says
Conversation forked to thought 21244

Mark de LA says
Kewl – will get a spelling checker to put my responses to you in that form jsut so you feel validtaed. roselaughing

Mark de LA says
It will be interesting to see what actually comes out when you finally begin to think for yourselves.  Maybe flush the first few batches. laughing

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