The Other Side of Truth

About: the other side of truth (new windmills): amazon.co.uk: beverley naidoo: books

While googling around for The Other Side of Truth I found something novel:
The story looks interesting.
source: ...

The Other Side of Truth is a children's novel about Nigerian political refugees, written by Beverley Naidoo and published by Puffin in 2000. It is set in the autumn of 1995 during the reign of the despot General Abacha who is waging a campaign of suppression against journalists. A Nigerian girl and her younger brother have to leave Nigeria suddenly when their mother is killed during an assassination attempt on their outspoken journalist father. They are abandoned in London and have to cope with the police, social services and school bullies.

Naidoo won the annual Carnegie Medal in Literature from the Library Association, recognising the year's best children's book by a British subject.[2]

... (Wikipedia)

Tags

  1. metaphysical truth

Comments


Mark de LA says
Cheng Hsin Fall Newsletter 2012: ...
Let me clarify that, however, since what I just said will likely evoke a reaction. You don’t have to transform or change at all. You are fine just the way you are. But that is about transformation, or in this case, the lack of it. It is not about the truth. The truth doesn’t get you anything but the truth. The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems. It has nothing to do with your agenda or goals — that’s your job. The truth is just what’s true. It is already true, nothing has to change for it to be true! Our job in this pursuit is to become conscious of what that is. Although our goal is to grasp the Absolute Truth, along the way we also work to become conscious of what is true on any level— what is true about self, mind, perception,and so on.
... in an answer by Peter Ralston to the student Tomaso's questions (p.9). The whole answer is most interesting as well as the original question.
 
Note for those of you who hate the notion of an Absolute Truth: your hating it (or disbelieving, opposing, etc. it) doesn't make any diffference - the truth is still the truth!


Mark de LA says
ibid: ... Of course it's not enlightenment, it's not trying
to be. It is, as you say, a realization — noticing
something about reality that you've missed
,
getting past the assumption that your
interpretations are the same as what's true
.
It is
a very important insight, but won't serve much
unless it becomes a more common place
occurrence in your experience. This is your next
step — make it a more constant experience.
Enlightenment isn't the only thing to pursue. A
study of mind and experience is also necessary
to get free.
Good luck with that.
Peter
i.e. interpretations & truth are different things. Because you are wrapped up in so many interpretations you don't know what is what doesn't negate that there is truth.

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-08-13 08:01:00 16128
M 2012-08-10 13:18:15 16128
seth 2012-08-10 13:04:09 16128
M 2012-08-10 12:48:52 16128
seth 2012-08-10 12:29:31 16128
source: withing a paragraph about "truth" by Cheng Hsen Fall
The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems.
Try to experience truth when it does not agree with your belief system.  Me, i cannot do that.
.. & that is your belief system; that you just told me. What do you do with that? How does your self use that to limit you with what you can experience? I grok that I don't need that in my belief system & that is neither good nor bad. I can grok that I don't need most of my belief system. I admired myself the other day making a cup of coffee almost entirely without chatter inside or any need for beliefs.  .... baby steps.
Perhaps your belief system contains an assumption that it can have experiences outside of itself ... mine does not contain that assumption.  If that is the case,  then it appears to me that both of us are still experiencing according to our assumptions.
Perhaps, that is an interpretation you have that seems to be tautological. I don't assume any limits - no need to, if there are any they will most certainly show up. I am mostly open to all channels of experience.

Well i agree, there is no need to assume there are any "limits" to the possibilities of human awareness.  But I have no experiences that indicate that my own awareness is not completely shaped by what i have personally come in contact with and believe. 
In that case you may end up in your own walled garden with no escape from your personal labyrinth - nothing new to play with.


Seth says
M 2012-08-13 08:10:47 16128
seth 2012-08-13 08:01:00 16128
M 2012-08-10 13:18:15 16128
seth 2012-08-10 13:04:09 16128
M 2012-08-10 12:48:52 16128
seth 2012-08-10 12:29:31 16128
source: withing a paragraph about "truth" by Cheng Hsen Fall
The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems.
Try to experience truth when it does not agree with your belief system.  Me, i cannot do that.
.. & that is your belief system; that you just told me. What do you do with that? How does your self use that to limit you with what you can experience? I grok that I don't need that in my belief system & that is neither good nor bad. I can grok that I don't need most of my belief system. I admired myself the other day making a cup of coffee almost entirely without chatter inside or any need for beliefs.  .... baby steps.
Perhaps your belief system contains an assumption that it can have experiences outside of itself ... mine does not contain that assumption.  If that is the case,  then it appears to me that both of us are still experiencing according to our assumptions.
Perhaps, that is an interpretation you have that seems to be tautological. I don't assume any limits - no need to, if there are any they will most certainly show up. I am mostly open to all channels of experience.

Well i agree, there is no need to assume there are any "limits" to the possibilities of human awareness.  But I have no experiences that indicate that my own awareness is not completely shaped by what i have personally come in contact with and believe. 
In that case you may end up in your own walled garden with no escape from your personal labyrinth - nothing new to play with.


What i come in contact with is not a "walled garden".  Putting myself in contact with a wider and wider world is what gets me out of my "personal labyrinth". 

Seth says
seth 2012-08-13 08:20:04 16128
M 2012-08-13 08:10:47 16128
seth 2012-08-13 08:01:00 16128
M 2012-08-10 13:18:15 16128
seth 2012-08-10 13:04:09 16128
M 2012-08-10 12:48:52 16128
seth 2012-08-10 12:29:31 16128
source: withing a paragraph about "truth" by Cheng Hsen Fall
The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems.
Try to experience truth when it does not agree with your belief system.  Me, i cannot do that.
.. & that is your belief system; that you just told me. What do you do with that? How does your self use that to limit you with what you can experience? I grok that I don't need that in my belief system & that is neither good nor bad. I can grok that I don't need most of my belief system. I admired myself the other day making a cup of coffee almost entirely without chatter inside or any need for beliefs.  .... baby steps.
Perhaps your belief system contains an assumption that it can have experiences outside of itself ... mine does not contain that assumption.  If that is the case,  then it appears to me that both of us are still experiencing according to our assumptions.
Perhaps, that is an interpretation you have that seems to be tautological. I don't assume any limits - no need to, if there are any they will most certainly show up. I am mostly open to all channels of experience.

Well i agree, there is no need to assume there are any "limits" to the possibilities of human awareness.  But I have no experiences that indicate that my own awareness is not completely shaped by what i have personally come in contact with and believe. 
In that case you may end up in your own walled garden with no escape from your personal labyrinth - nothing new to play with.


What i come in contact with is not a "walled garden".  Putting myself in contact with a wider and wider world is what gets me out of my "personal labyrinth". 

Note that the simple thing i am saying here does not exclude "knowledge and communication with my holy daemon" as i include that being in what i have come in contact with and believe.  A  non-metaphysical example of that would be a split personality who knows things that the main personality does not.

Mark de LA says
So we are back to square one.  You & I both can have experiences outside our past or current awareness. So why do you continuously bring it up?

Seth says
M 2012-08-13 09:11:28 16128
So we are back to square one.  You & I both can have experiences outside our past or current awareness. So why do you continuously bring it up?

Well i still don't think the bolded proposition  in your passage above ...
Cheng Hsin Fall Newsletter 2012: ...
Let me clarify that, however, since what I just said will likely evoke a reaction. You don’t have to transform or change at all. You are fine just the way you are. But that is about transformation, or in this case, the lack of it. It is not about the truth. The truth doesn’t get you anything but the truth. The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems. It has nothing to do with your agenda or goals — that’s your job. The truth is just what’s true. It is already true, nothing has to change for it to be true! Our job in this pursuit is to become conscious of what that is. Although our goal is to grasp the Absolute Truth, along the way we also work to become conscious of what is true on any level— what is true about self, mind, perception,and so on.
... matches my experience.  As I encounter new things my belief system changes (or sometimes doesn't change).  So, yes, i want to amend my original challenge to be as follows ...
Original challenge:  Try to experience TRUTH when it does not agree with your changing belief system.  
The point being that if something does not agree with my belief system, my mind goes tilt and does not experience a feeling of TRUTH.  Instead i might be revolted () or perhaps pleasantly surprised () and perhaps I will revise my belief system accordingly.  That's just the way i roll.



Mark de LA says
seth 2012-08-13 10:58:36 16128
M 2012-08-13 09:11:28 16128
So we are back to square one.  You & I both can have experiences outside our past or current awareness. So why do you continuously bring it up?

Well i still don't think the bolded proposition  in your passage above ...
Cheng Hsin Fall Newsletter 2012: ...
Let me clarify that, however, since what I just said will likely evoke a reaction. You don’t have to transform or change at all. You are fine just the way you are. But that is about transformation, or in this case, the lack of it. It is not about the truth. The truth doesn’t get you anything but the truth. The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems. It has nothing to do with your agenda or goals ��" that’s your job. The truth is just what’s true. It is already true, nothing has to change for it to be true! Our job in this pursuit is to become conscious of what that is. Although our goal is to grasp the Absolute Truth, along the way we also work to become conscious of what is true on any level��" what is true about self, mind, perception,and so on.
... matches my experience.  As I encounter new things my belief system changes (or sometimes doesn't change).  So, yes, i want to amend my original challenge to be as follows ...
Original challenge:  Try to experience TRUTH when it does not agree with your changing belief system.  
The point being that if something does not agree with my belief system, my mind goes tilt and does not experience a feeling of TRUTH.  Instead i might be revolted () or perhaps pleasantly surprised () and perhaps I will revise my belief system accordingly.  That's just the way i roll.


End of sentence missing. BUt, if I were to guess you are still quibbling about the truth. It (the truth) doesn't care about what you think. That is something which is SO whether you can describe it, understand it, talk about it or fit it into your cognizing abilities repository.  What's SO is SO.  We are back to THAT WHICH IS, IS! You and I could both be dead & still that would be true.


Mark de LA says
Beliefs are just feelings of certainty about the semantics or meaning of something.


Seth says
M 2012-08-13 11:24:18 16128
seth 2012-08-13 10:58:36 16128
M 2012-08-13 09:11:28 16128
So we are back to square one.  You & I both can have experiences outside our past or current awareness. So why do you continuously bring it up?

Well i still don't think the bolded proposition  in your passage above ...
Cheng Hsin Fall Newsletter 2012: ...
Let me clarify that, however, since what I just said will likely evoke a reaction. You don’t have to transform or change at all. You are fine just the way you are. But that is about transformation, or in this case, the lack of it. It is not about the truth. The truth doesn’t get you anything but the truth. The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems. It has nothing to do with your agenda or goals ��" that’s your job. The truth is just what’s true. It is already true, nothing has to change for it to be true! Our job in this pursuit is to become conscious of what that is. Although our goal is to grasp the Absolute Truth, along the way we also work to become conscious of what is true on any level��" what is true about self, mind, perception,and so on.
... matches my experience.  As I encounter new things my belief system changes (or sometimes doesn't change).  So, yes, i want to amend my original challenge to be as follows ...
Original challenge:  Try to experience TRUTH when it does not agree with your changing belief system.  
The point being that if something does not agree with my belief system, my mind goes tilt and does not experience a feeling of TRUTH.  Instead i might be revolted () or perhaps pleasantly surprised () and perhaps I will revise my belief system accordingly.  That's just the way i roll.


End of sentence missing. BUt, if I were to guess you are still quibbling about the truth. It (the truth) doesn't care about what you think. That is something which is SO whether you can describe it, understand it, talk about it or fit it into your cognizing abilities repository.  What's SO is SO.  We are back to THAT WHICH IS, IS! You and I could both be dead & still that would be true.


Well sure what is so, is so whether I know it or not.  My point is that my awareness can never be there.  That is what philosophers call God's point of view.  I don't believe that any being can take that privileged view ... not unless that being  is at least much closer to the universe itself than i can ever claim to be as a mere mortal human.    That kind of "absolute truth" can never become my experience ... so what is the value of referring to it as if it could?  I believe that  people who boast of that ability are are either talking in symbols disparate from mine, or are delusional,  or deceitful.  Sorry, Mark, that is just my philosophy ... please hold the usual self-serving comments about my accepting limitations.

Seth says
M 2012-08-13 11:25:37 16128
Beliefs are just feelings of certainty about the semantics or meaning of something.

I agree .

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-08-13 12:31:12 16128
M 2012-08-13 11:24:18 16128
seth 2012-08-13 10:58:36 16128
M 2012-08-13 09:11:28 16128
So we are back to square one.  You & I both can have experiences outside our past or current awareness. So why do you continuously bring it up?

Well i still don't think the bolded proposition  in your passage above ...
Cheng Hsin Fall Newsletter 2012: ...
Let me clarify that, however, since what I just said will likely evoke a reaction. You don’t have to transform or change at all. You are fine just the way you are. But that is about transformation, or in this case, the lack of it. It is not about the truth. The truth doesn’t get you anything but the truth. The truth isn’t about what good it does you, how you can benefit from it, or even how it may or may not agree with you or your belief systems. It has nothing to do with your agenda or goals ��" that’s your job. The truth is just what’s true. It is already true, nothing has to change for it to be true! Our job in this pursuit is to become conscious of what that is. Although our goal is to grasp the Absolute Truth, along the way we also work to become conscious of what is true on any level��" what is true about self, mind, perception,and so on.
... matches my experience.  As I encounter new things my belief system changes (or sometimes doesn't change).  So, yes, i want to amend my original challenge to be as follows ...
Original challenge:  Try to experience TRUTH when it does not agree with your changing belief system.  
The point being that if something does not agree with my belief system, my mind goes tilt and does not experience a feeling of TRUTH.  Instead i might be revolted () or perhaps pleasantly surprised () and perhaps I will revise my belief system accordingly.  That's just the way i roll.


End of sentence missing. BUt, if I were to guess you are still quibbling about the truth. It (the truth) doesn't care about what you think. That is something which is SO whether you can describe it, understand it, talk about it or fit it into your cognizing abilities repository.  What's SO is SO.  We are back to THAT WHICH IS, IS! You and I could both be dead & still that would be true.


Well sure what is so, is so whether I know it or not.  My point is that my awareness can never be there.  That is what philosophers call God's point of view.  I don't believe that any being can take that privileged view ... not unless that being  is at least much closer to the universe itself than i can ever claim to be as a mere mortal human.    That kind of "absolute truth" can never become my experience ... so what is the value of referring to it as if it could?  I believe that  people who boast of that ability are are either talking in symbols disparate from mine, or are delusional,  or deceitful.  Sorry, Mark, that is just my philosophy ... please hold the usual self-serving comments about my accepting limitations.
Yep, this merry-go-round is going nowhere. You hopefully realize that your limitations are not mine. It just means I won't try to get on your ride any more: