Leadership II

About: leadership

Whether you are the captain of a ship or a spacecraft you are responsible for everything that happens aboard the vessel. You are the one person whose example & commands everyone else must follow. If your commands are vague, if your instructions are garbled or non-existent, if your people fail to follow them, if they fail to communicate to you of dangers or situations which would endanger the ship - it is still your responsibility. Your identity is that ship or spacecraft. You must think for the entire crew through your staff & your example & command with your word.
How can the president of the United States be president if he is not a leader with such precepts?


  1. leadership
  2. presidental leadersthip
  3. idealism


Mark de LA says
seth 2012-10-24 04:30:10 16254
This is a childish ideal that doesn't scale to the United States of America ... never has, and never will.  Note that where leadership does work according to this ideal ... like for example a ship at sea ... the leader has total control and authority of command and discipline ... that is not the situation that obtains for the president of the United States.  It is a good thing that it does not, because i would certainly not want to live in such a totalitarian state.   Strange that you of all people would tout such an ideal.
      I knew you would dislike this @Seth. Nevertheless, I -have both military & shipboard experience, as a leader & have the better real life experience of how this works over your limited imagination. Insulting the message, or the messenger never lead to a better understanding of anything & more likely leads back to ignorance! Is this worth explaining? - probably not. I will do it anyway.
      I described the same ideals as are also captured in those fictional creations such as the Startrek series, movies & even in some places in Starwars & quite a few other dramas.  He who leads has to rise to a higher level of identity, consciousness & morality for leadership must also be an example to inspire & model for those who are being lead. If you are a rake - your people will say to themselves this is the example we can follow, etc. If you are given a leadership role of a company, a family, a military unit or even a department of government - extending all the way up to the presidency of the United States you had better be inspired by good things, teach such to your subordinates & show them how to act & be the best example of what that is - otherwise corruption & degradation is waiting for opportunities.  If you are a spendthrift don't expect your subordinates to be thrifty. If you are a partier don't expect your subordinates to put their noses to the grindstone while you are not there with them. If you are a philanderer don't expect your subordinates to conduct themselves with chastity, ... etc. 
P.S. I know we don't have a dictatorship, nor would I want one.  Leadership works by example & inspiration, vision & consciousness expansion. Where those are missing dissolution & anarchy reign.

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-10-24 08:47:00 16254
ok.  Certainly leading by example and inspiration if the mark of a good leader. 

Obama is not the best leader in the world ... not, perhaps of the ilk of a Jefferson or a Lincoln. 

But in judging his leadership we should also consider what is happening to tear down and degrade his leading ... those are extreme ... perhaps you cannot see them because your own ego is so close to that ... but, trust me, it is extreme ... here, perhaps was one of the worst ... but American politics is riddled with this kind of shit ... yours among it.

So your Star-Trek ideology notwithstanding ... leadership is a relationship between a leader and those being lead.  Sans the latter the former does not exist. 

It simply cannot be manifested unilaterally.
I had a nice, non-partisan discussion going here & as predicted @Seth took it back to the political & partisan. You should know that I have already voted & hence you can't affect my vote.  Yeah, everything on the Earth is in a relationship between everything else.  You didn't specify what kind of relationship.  For leadership it need not be willing at the start.  Like Huckleberry Finn & the whitewashing of the fence, there is an example of someone following because the way looks enticing. There are plenty of negative examples as well. The best positive example is Jesus Christ who has been dead for 2000 years & still has millions of followers.
Choose your own or not.

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-10-24 09:43:14 16254
source: Mark above
I had a nice, non-partisan discussion going here & as predicted @Seth took it back to the political & partisan.
Please, give me a break ... this item is directly connected to your partisan agenda.  If you can deny that, how can i possible believe anything that you might say?
Learn to remove your brown grommet necklace from around your head & you will be able to breathe calmer & think more clearly. Otherwise,

these arent the droids you are looking for

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-10-24 10:29:11 16254
i really was interested in a honest and candid answer to my question.
source: i ask again
What did you learn from your experiences in the Viet Nam war?
... not to prove anything ... but just to know you better.    I mean i did give you mine.

I already told you in the most general way. I had 6 years worth of experience. Thats as far as I will discuss it here. What I espouse here is what I got from my experience - not some pointy headed thought exercise or "sea lawyering".

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-10-24 10:10:40 16254
M 2012-10-24 10:01:16 16254
seth 2012-10-24 09:31:37 16254
Well to begin with i agree with you ... leadership is a skill ... example and inspiration are great parts of it .

source: Mark above
You didn't specify what kind of relationship.  For leadership it need not be willing at the start.
Well certainly we are talking about a person leading a group of people ... that is the relationship ... what more needs to be said.  The context can be a sergeant and the squad he is leading (something i have had a bit of experience) ... or the commander and chief of the armed services ... or the leader of the administration of our US government.  I really don't know what more needs to be specified.

Certainly a great leader might be able to dissolve some opposition to his leadership ... that is a given ... but leading people who are hell bent on rejecting your leadership is not a formula for a great leadership relationship.  Can you honestly deny that?
Yep, maybe the leader is the wrong one. Maybe he is the wrong example.  Maybe his Vision & his actions contradict each other, maybe he goes golfing & partying on the taxpayer's dime while calling for more taxes ... do I need to go on?  You started the politics. I had it generic. Your sargeant experience was in high school ROTC? My experience was in the Viet Nam war!

My experience in ROTC was the first time i learned that i was not a good leader.  I was the seargant of the best squad competition, and we lost ... i made mistakes ... after those i totally lost the respect of the squad.  What did you learn from your experiences in the Viet Nam war?
... Well, a lot of the stuff I wrote in this item & the comments which were generic draw from my navy experience.  I'm not going to argue about it. Life & death & making policy which will be followed is a bit different than that in the academic world as Obama has found out. Remove the economic incentives to power & we will get different kinds of leaders.  Subject the leaders to their own laws & you will get a different kind of dynamic a la s threefoldness. The about box of this item takes an ontological look at leadership.

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