Truth VS Trumeth


I think there are two radically different kinds of truth.  We need different words to refer to them to be more precise in our language. 

On the one hand we have the kind of truth that is independent of our egos ... this is the case where something is so or not regardless of our involvement with it.  That is what we normally call "Truth". 

On the other hand we have the kind of truth that we make with our egos.  The is the case where we change the world.  I would like to call that "Trumeth". 

Some thoughts about Trumeth from others

" 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or
bad, but thinking makes it so" -- Shakespeare's Hamlet

"   Watch your thoughts; they lead to attitudes.
    Watch your attitudes; they lead to words.
    Watch your words; they lead to actions.
    Watch your actions; they lead to habits.
    Watch your habits; they form your character.
    Watch your character; it determines your destiny. " -- unknown

"The Will to Believe" -- William James

Wikipedia article about Self-fulfilling prophecy


A simple way to understand the point of this item is to ask the question ...

Is what-is-so the same thing as what-you-make-so?


I want a better word for "trumeth" ... it sounds derogative, but is not meant to be so.

Tags

  1. truth
  2. trumeth
  3. ego
  4. what-is-so
  5. what-you-make-so
  6. item 16276
  7. trueth
  8. truthy-washy

Comments


Seth says
some facebook discussion here.

Seth says
a transcript of somebody in hot passionate pursuit of his trumeth .

Seth says
seth 2012-11-05 14:33:12 16276

... which brings to mind that saying "you are persuing trumeth" can at times be derogative .

Seth says
I have given several examples of trumeth ... things that i make so.  I also want to provide a good example of truth ... something that is so regardless of myself.  Unsupported, an object  will accelerate to the Earth at about 32 feet per second per second at UCLA.  In my physics lab at UCLA I measured that.  I was even able,  by carefully adapting the measurement procedure, to tease out an extra decimal point beyond the limits of the apparatus provided by the school.  Everybody who measures the Earth's gravity, as carefully as did i, will arrive at the same number.   That is truth.  It is not trumeth. 

Seth says
seth 2012-11-07 08:06:00 16276
seth 2012-11-05 14:33:12 16276

... which brings to mind that saying "you are persuing trumeth" can at times be derogative .

Here, imho, is another example of trumeth ... or rather, in this case,  not trumeth.   In the article "Pundit Forecasts All Wrong, Silver Perfectly Right. Is Punditry Dead?" we hear about various pundits expressing their prediction that there would be a Republican landslide ... and/or that the main stream media polls were biased and would be proven wrong.  That may well have become a self-fulfilling prophecy ... it did not ... but if it had, then that would have become an example of trumeth ... of people's egos making a thing so.  Lots of things in politics in particular are trumeths not truths.  In this case the *truth* of the matter actually won out and the professional polls were far more accurate than the wishful group think of the conservative punditry.

I obviously could have written the above paragraph by substituting the word "opinion" for the word "trumeth", salva veritate.  The difference is that pesky case where a fact is willed into being. That is the whole point here. 

Seth says
M 2012-11-07 21:10:04 16276
A fact is a fact. An opinion is an opinion. Something done is assumed to be willed or is just accidental.  This is still ziggyness.


Well that is a pretty chiggy thing to say.  Whatever it means, even if i believed it was true, it still could  not change my mind in the slightest.  I think there is a term for that in the philosophy of language ... something like "a distinction that does not make a difference" ... but that is not quite it. 



Seth says
seth 2012-11-07 18:54:36 16276
seth 2012-11-07 08:06:00 16276
seth 2012-11-05 14:33:12 16276

... which brings to mind that saying "you are persuing trumeth" can at times be derogative .

Here, imho, is another example of trumeth ... or rather, in this case,  not trumeth.   In the article "Pundit Forecasts All Wrong, Silver Perfectly Right. Is Punditry Dead?" we hear about various pundits expressing their prediction that there would be a Republican landslide ... and/or that the main stream media polls were biased and would be proven wrong.  That may well have become a self-fulfilling prophecy ... it did not ... but if it had, then that would have become an example of trumeth ... of people's egos making a thing so.  Lots of things in politics in particular are trumeths not truths.  In this case the *truth* of the matter actually won out and the professional polls were far more accurate than the wishful group think of the conservative punditry.

I obviously could have written the above paragraph by substituting the word "opinion" for the word "trumeth", salva veritate.  The difference is that pesky case where a fact is willed into being. That is the whole point here. 

Somtimes it goes one way ... belief trumps it's denial ... other times it does not.   Seldom is the actual moment captured ... this was close ...

source: Jon Stewart
"Is this just math that you do as a republican to make yourself feel better or is this real?" -- Megyn Kelly 2012 on foxnews



Mark de LA says
I guess the whole point is that your shit here is really obvious & you are making something out of it which is merely banal or useless.
Bye


Mark de LA says
Talking about what it isn't is rather useless.  Hint - there is a lot of stuff in the Universe that is not cabbage!


Seth says
M 2012-11-09 08:07:31 16279
seth 2012-11-09 07:33:35 16279
M 2012-11-08 13:40:28 16279
Yep, You are still talking about something & have no examples of it! I say they don't really exist!


It' real, Mark.  Please read this Wikipedia article about it.  I don't really know much more about it than that, and how the LOA people have also used it,  it is pretty much common knowledge now.
KEWL!
Wikipedia: ... In other words, a positive or negative prophecy, strongly held belief, or delusion - declared as truth when it is actually false - may sufficiently influence people so that their reactions ultimately fulfill the once-false prophecy.
... sounds like groups of people believing in lies will make the lies become true & conversely. I still don't believe in prophecy; mostly because the future is imaginary.   I do hold that stupid people believing in stupid things will do stupid things - that's not prophecy that's more like behavior. I will concede that the distinction is in some cultures, but the antidote is raising one's consciousness.  Just like mass hysteria, there is no substitute for consciousness during these times. Even Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Saddam Hussein,  & others  were able to get their people to do things against their own interests & created dictatorships, mass killings and the rest - mostly by force.
      Don't become a zombie!



Bear in mind that, at least according to my epistemology, what is true and false to someone cannot be absolutely determined for them externally.   Now in Merton's experiments the truth of the tested propositions could be carefully controlled so that his thesis could be scientifically proven.  In real life that is not the case.  So that the phenomenon goes well beyond your characterization:  "groups of people believing in lies will make the lies become true".  A better characterization might be "groups of people believing something, helps to make the thing true."  Whether it starts out true or false is not only irrelevant but also indeterminate.

Certainly the future is imaginary as you say.  But how we imagine it affects how it becomes our present and our past.  I think Tony Robbin's NPL also believes that. 

I agree with you that political leaders frequently whip up their population with crisis and war and get people to believe lies about their so called enemy ... they are geeks and gooks and krouts and terrorists ... and they are cumming to get you.  That makes the conflicts which without people's inflamed beliefs would not have otherwise existed.  That is a excellent example of self-fufilling-prophecy happening at the group level rather than at the individual level. 
Is "the antidote raising one's consciousness" as you suggest ? ... yes, i believe so.

I move this here because it is absolutely on topic and might help us arrive at a consensus on this matter.

Seth says
M 2012-11-09 10:00:22 16276
seth 2012-11-09 09:53:42 16276
M 2012-11-09 09:49:07 16276
Words arguing for a zombie nation, I think; the usual disclaimers notwithstanding.

BTW, This is my last contribution here since I don't like the topic.


Well there is absolutely no way that i was arguing for a "zombie nation".  If you got that from what i said, then you did not understand  what i said.
That's the way a zombie would respond.


Well apparently not only was your first sentence false, but also so was your second.  I like to write true sentences .... here is one for example ... "This is the last comment in this train, all others in this same train will be deleted".  Refuting fogged random hostility and mismatching in not really my thing.



Seth says
Here is a good example of trumeth being projected into the media ...




Seth says
seth 2012-12-15 10:15:52 16276
I think i just discovered a better spelling of "trumeth".    It started as a typo.   Instead of spelling the word, "trumeth", spell "trueth".  We don't need no stinking "m" in there.   The typo happened here

People will say it is a mis-spelling ... and it is ... in this case an intentional mis-spelling which is not a mis-spelling at all. 

source: From the Uban dictionary we get this ..

Me: u dnt know da tru
Joe: you cnt handle da trueth
Me: You can't handle the English Langauge.
Joe: y not?
Me: Point Proven
...


Seth says
...

a bit of wisdom from Cinder Ella

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