Better is Namby Pamby

About: better *is* better than is or is not

From the urban dictionary:

namby-pamby  

n. A cloyingly mock-virtuous person. Suggestive of effeminacy. The adjective form may not technically be slang.
"That namby-pamby Wilbur just gave his lunch money to Billy again
-
My thesis is that the same people who are worried about drawing distinct lines or grading a school child for points on an exam are trying to pervert the language so that in the child's case his self esteem is not ruined with a failing grade.
We are becoming a nation of Nambos & mamby-pambies.
It's also like burying the RWG without actually solving the root causes.

Watch the better truth seeker dance below:


Tags

  1. mamby pamby
  2. namby pamby
  3. better
  4. rwg
  5. trumeth
  6. communist
  7. truthy-washy

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2012-11-13 08:10:45 16291
Kewl !   I like the word "self" better than "eog" too.   So then the question is  clearer ...

Which is more important to you, finding truth, or defending yourself ?   Of course we are talking of  cases where the more of the one, implies the less of the other.


Well, there is no more or less really of the truth. If you are committed to finding the truth of some matter then you need to go for it as itself without all your personal self stuff in the way. Such requires commitment to do so including a degree of honesty about your self. Again please see ch 17 of BofNK, but the build up to it is in the previous chapters on building the self. I use BofNK because I have done a bunch of his seminars & inquiries in just the kind of subjects we have often discussed & I find that he is relatively free of dogma & religion or metaphysics & is dedicated to truth.  He is successful in applying it to the martial arts as well & derived the mind & consciousness stuff out examining what worked in the field martial arts; not just a theoretician approach.


Mark de LA says
seth 2012-11-13 07:43:47 16291
perhaps the pursuit of truth is opposed to the rwg ?  That could be asked differently.   Which is more important, finding truth, or defending ego ?   It does seem to me that the one gets in the way of the other ... does it not seem that way to you too?
Using the term ego as a piece of the RWG is not only a piece of the self machinery, but a transparent block to the truth as is the RWG itself.  I prefer using PR's term "self" rather than "Ego" since the latter has a much more benign & Anthroposophical meaning to me akin to Spirit. If you use "ego" in Freudian terms as in the Id, Superego & the Ego then it is too banal & loses any distinction there which might be related to a truth discussion. Don't use self as a cudgel in the RWG if you want to explore truth . Chapter 17 of BofNK has some clues as to how to get rid/out of the RWG.


Mark de LA says
seth 2012-11-12 21:04:12 16291
M 2012-11-12 17:11:56 16291
seth 2012-11-12 15:37:10 16291
I fail to see why this is about better *is* better than is or is not.  Being namby pamby and wishy washy is not necessarily a good thing ... but better truth is not a namby pamby, wishy washy truth ... in fact is is a stronger and more honest one.  Failing to understand that is to fail to understand a better truth.
& failing to understand what I am saying is to believe in a better truth as something other than a namby pamby failure to encounter truth as something real & definite.


yep ...

except, of course, for the fact that encountering better and better truths is in no way a failure ... rather it is more definite and real than what you apparently are doing now.  You don't need no stinking  mamby pamby, wishy washy, weak truths relative only to your ego and its fixed assumptions  ... what you need are better ones.
Hmmmm... almost got me, DUDE .... almost sucked me back into the RWG but then the PML took over:


Seth says
M 2012-11-13 11:57:13 16291
seth 2012-11-13 10:15:16 16291
seth 2012-11-13 10:10:25 16291
source: Mark above

If you are committed to finding the truth of some matter then you need to go for it as itself without all your personal self stuff in the way. Such requires commitment to do so including a degree of honesty about your self.

I totally agree.  That is all i have been saying in regard to self and truth.  That is also what, i believe, RS said as well.
Well said, and thanks for saying it.

Of course, there is the kind of thing that you make up your self.  Those things exist.  That is why, me thinks, we need a different word for them to distinguish them from the persuit of truth that is better self-less.
The stuff you make up yourself is NOT truth. Such stuff is the survival of the self material (SoS). I can be beliefs, lies, fantasy, daydreams etc.... I'm trying to get rid of as much of that as possible. I would say that 99.95% of politics belongs in this category.

Well perhaps we are in agreement when you say "The stuff you make up yourself is NOT truth" ... that is exactly why i want to call it something else.  Note that my definition of truth is that it is independent of  self ... it can be verified by others ... whereas the other kind is not, rather it is created by self and cannot be verified or refuted by others.

That said, SoS is just part of  trumeth ... there many times where we make constructions that are not about the survival of our self.  Some of those things even end up becoming true in a way that can be verified by others. 

I too am trying to get rid of the SoS part .

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-11-14 07:15:59 16291
M 2012-11-14 00:06:49 16291
seth 2012-11-13 17:28:55 16291
M 2012-11-13 15:59:51 16291
seth 2012-11-13 14:26:16 16291
M 2012-11-13 12:26:49 16291
I can't think of a case where something you make up is not about self survival. Trumeth is something you made up & doesn't exist & as such is about your self-survival.


Well one example that comes to mind is mathematical thinking.  We make up, construct, mathematical object ... sets, vectors, matrices, geometries, etc ... those are things that have no existence before we conceive them ... they are not about our selves.

There are many other examples which are more about our humanity but would be harder to prove that they had nothing to do with our self survival.  Everything is related so there is always some remote relationship between it and your self. 

Incidentally I didn't "make up trumeth", I just named it.  Throw the name out of your mind if the fact that i named it colors your acceptance of the concept.  Name it yourself.  Read the section i listed about thought from others ... maybe you can form a concept of what i am talking about from that.  Some people who have studied AI are of the opinion that all of human apprehension starts out as this kind of thing.  That is where i initially encountered it.
Math is conceptual & a description of something it is not the thing itself;  Hence not the truth of the matter it's just at best the description of the matter. You are still many layers away from truth.


What people construct in their minds is a procedure ... like for example the procedure of counting objects.  That procedure is the thing that the person creates and makes exist.  It may, or may not, have any correspondence to any objects that you are asserting it must always describe.
Whatever is constructed is not the thing.  Assigning a number is a label. labels are not the reality. Description is not reality.

Whatever is constructed *is* a thing.    If you construct a procedure in your mind, the procedure is what you have constructed.  If the procedure sets up correspondences to some other things, well that may well be part of the details of its construction, but it doesn't imply that the procedure does not itself exist.  

A procedure is not a label, or a description, although it may be used to label or describe.  In the case of counting the procedure specifies how to bind a things to specific labels.  Other procedures operate on labels ... labels in .... labels out.  The procedures and the things labeled are in different domains. 

A recipe to make chicken gumbo is another thing that one can construct in one's mind.   The recipe is not the gumbo ... lol ... we all know that.   But you cannot deny that the recipe exists apart from the gumbo ... it *is* a thing.   Now, sure, knowing how to make chicken gumbo may or may not be good for the survival of you self ... i can think of cases where it would have almost nothing to do with it ... and cases where it may well be paramount.   It just really seems to be to be a bit obsessive of one's self to think that everything you think up is about it.  That said, there is no doubt that we use our minds to preserve our selves ... to destroy our selves ... to destroy other selves ... and to help other selves to survive.   I just think it a bit simplistic to think self survival is the only function of our human minds.
Switching to the label procedure just causes confusion. It is just another thought in the mind until a procedure or program gets used in the world. A recipe is a recipe, np. Be honest, please & consider that a thought or concept about something is at least one level removed from whatever that thought or concept is about. See the etymology of the word about. The clearest point is the last part of your argument is what a self would say defending it's existence.  The mind has wonderful functions including the one where we can imagine something without being in the presence of it. That helped the human species in it's survival & dominance of others. The higher spiritual functions are accessible far more easily once the lower self is recognized for what it is; such not being a subject of discussed often in zen & ontology. It is useful to peel the onion of mind and see what is underneath all the many layers - & what is the bottom line of what is going on inside there. It is not obsessive if you are committed to pursuit of truth & open to being present to whatever shows up.


Mark de LA says
seth 2012-11-13 17:28:55 16291
M 2012-11-13 15:59:51 16291
seth 2012-11-13 14:26:16 16291
M 2012-11-13 12:26:49 16291
I can't think of a case where something you make up is not about self survival. Trumeth is something you made up & doesn't exist & as such is about your self-survival.


Well one example that comes to mind is mathematical thinking.  We make up, construct, mathematical object ... sets, vectors, matrices, geometries, etc ... those are things that have no existence before we conceive them ... they are not about our selves.

There are many other examples which are more about our humanity but would be harder to prove that they had nothing to do with our self survival.  Everything is related so there is always some remote relationship between it and your self. 

Incidentally I didn't "make up trumeth", I just named it.  Throw the name out of your mind if the fact that i named it colors your acceptance of the concept.  Name it yourself.  Read the section i listed about thought from others ... maybe you can form a concept of what i am talking about from that.  Some people who have studied AI are of the opinion that all of human apprehension starts out as this kind of thing.  That is where i initially encountered it.
Math is conceptual & a description of something it is not the thing itself;  Hence not the truth of the matter it's just at best the description of the matter. You are still many layers away from truth.


What people construct in their minds is a procedure ... like for example the procedure of counting objects.  That procedure is the thing that the person creates and makes exist.  It may, or may not, have any correspondence to any objects that you are asserting it must always describe.
Whatever is constructed is not the thing.  Assigning a number is a label. labels are not the reality. Description is not reality.

Mark de LA says
seth 2012-11-14 18:40:45 16291
M 2012-11-14 08:12:35 16291
P.S. the portal out of the mind is consciousness & being.


It's more like this one, one of my most favorite songs & performances:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP-pGPB23BE

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