To tell the truth ...
We have a rubric which I tend to follow ...
Me, i would have others tell me the truth. So i tell it to them.
But a problem emerges with what "truth" refers to. It seems that what is true to me is not necessarily true to you. At times the word itself is just as indexical as the pronouns "I" and "you". So what to do ... what to do ...
Should I tell what I anticipate would be true to my listener, or do I tell a truth that is true (perhaps only) to myself ?
Think about it ...
Tags
- golden rule
- truth
- controlled item
- keep on topic
- moderated item
- lies
Comments
Seth says
Please note, that this item assumes the indexical nature of truth ... or
in other words that truth is relative and that among the men and women who walk the earth there is no preferred
person or point of view from which to ascertain anything that could be called
"the" truth. This is not the place to argue that. Dialogue here, to be
on topic, will accept that assumption.
This is a moderated item, please keep on topic.
This is a moderated item, please keep on topic.
Seth says
There is a spectrum of aliment between what a person thinks or says and the reality which they percieve ...
- perfect alignment & true reports
- creative action where the world is changed to align with thinking (trueth)
- theory and conjecture and speculation
- imagination
- humor
- irony
------ a dividing line between true sentences and untrue sentences
- fiction
- untrue speculation
- self fulfilling prophecies (commercials)
- lies about self
- lies about others (political advertisements)
- lies with harming agendas
This is a first very rough draft of this spectrum. It is necessary so that thinking here is more tangible and less abstract, less general ... more particular.
Seth says
If was was true it would probably make me angry, which it did not. Anyway it was not true ... and i reject your attempt to make it truemeth ... that offends me ... and hurts.
MR 2013-01-08 08:26:50 16369
seth 2013-01-08 08:18:23 16369
seth 2013-01-08 08:13:30 16366
It does not feel good to me to read a statement about myself that i know is not true. It hurts! How do you think it feels ? How would it feel to you if i told lies about you in public ? My complaint to you is really just that simple. You won't understand if you twist it into something else.
MR 2013-01-08 07:46:10 16366
seth 2013-01-08 07:36:14 16366
source: Mark "says"
Seth [snip] & expects you to give him rave reviews for cleverness.
Seth [snip] & expects you to give him rave reviews for cleverness.
Why do you continue to tell these lies about me? I expected no such thing.
I was thinking that's more like how you think of yourself as clever with your memes & assertions of "true statements" and the like.
You do carry the crisis-centered regime's water like a true believer mostly ignoring the other side of things.
Zombie or clever? Who knows?
I say you've done enough by not buying, keeping or using a gun against another person. Does that make you feel safer?
Whip out some more accusations of liar-liar - "that's the ticket ..."
You do carry the crisis-centered regime's water like a true believer mostly ignoring the other side of things.
Zombie or clever? Who knows?
I say you've done enough by not buying, keeping or using a gun against another person. Does that make you feel safer?
Whip out some more accusations of liar-liar - "that's the ticket ..."
It does not feel good to me to read a statement about myself that i know is not true. It hurts! How do you think it feels ? How would it feel to you if i told lies about you in public ? My complaint to you is really just that simple. You won't understand if you twist it into something else.
It also hurts if it is true & you resist it in defense of your self.
If was was true it would probably make me angry, which it did not. Anyway it was not true ... and i reject your attempt to make it truemeth ... that offends me ... and hurts.
Seth says
MR 2013-01-08 11:52:18 16369
seth 2013-01-08 09:23:38 16369
I didn't think about my ability at all ... i didn't think about any cleaverness ... i was thinking only of expressing the point ... of contriving an instrument that was cheap and lethal and was not a gun. It was not about me. It was not about my cleverness. When i first got the idea, i laughed. I didn't think of myself at all. I thought this might point out a weakness in the NRA type propaganda ... an absurdity in their argument. Yes i thought it was funny ... i laughfed ... but i did not think i was clever for making it up. That is just not the way i rock inside.
When a comedian tells you a joke, do you ask him if he thought he was clever and funny in making that up?
Incidentally the worse part of your "statement" was about my expectation of rave reviews. All i *hoped* for was that somebody would see the flaw in the pro gun propaganda based upon my spass. Did i expect it? ... not really and i'm not surprised that nobody noticed the point ... apparently not even you. You might have been too busy thinking of how to jab you insulting words into my emotions.
MR 2013-01-08 08:58:41 16369
seth 2013-01-08 08:55:38 16369
Well we are all in that predicament ... only I have access to how i feel inside. When you presume to know how i feel inside about something, then you are telling yourself a lie.
Now you can know things about the things i do that can be observed from outside and certainly say true things about them. For example you could have said "Nobody got your point about the lethal keychain" ... and that may have been true. You could say, I (Mark), didn't think the keychain was clever and i'm not going to rave about it. Or that "nobody will think you as clever as your might think you are". Those all could be true sentences. But when you go that extra step and make up negative stuff and try to win an argument by wipeing it in my face, that is just an offense.
You might look beyond the immediate RWG of this matter ... get out of that plane ... and see if you can understand what i am actually talking about. The way you talk to me is not helpful for our mutual consciousness. Just think about that for a moment ... don't let it get you angry.
MR 2013-01-08 08:29:20 16369
Somehow you are arrogant enough to think you are the sole holder of truth & truth about yourself. I don't agree!
Well we are all in that predicament ... only I have access to how i feel inside. When you presume to know how i feel inside about something, then you are telling yourself a lie.
Now you can know things about the things i do that can be observed from outside and certainly say true things about them. For example you could have said "Nobody got your point about the lethal keychain" ... and that may have been true. You could say, I (Mark), didn't think the keychain was clever and i'm not going to rave about it. Or that "nobody will think you as clever as your might think you are". Those all could be true sentences. But when you go that extra step and make up negative stuff and try to win an argument by wipeing it in my face, that is just an offense.
You might look beyond the immediate RWG of this matter ... get out of that plane ... and see if you can understand what i am actually talking about. The way you talk to me is not helpful for our mutual consciousness. Just think about that for a moment ... don't let it get you angry.
Let me ask you a question for which I hold you responsible for telling the truth about. Did you think you were clever to come up with the keychain thingy?
Did you think it was funny?
Did you think it was funny?I didn't think about my ability at all ... i didn't think about any cleaverness ... i was thinking only of expressing the point ... of contriving an instrument that was cheap and lethal and was not a gun. It was not about me. It was not about my cleverness. When i first got the idea, i laughed. I didn't think of myself at all. I thought this might point out a weakness in the NRA type propaganda ... an absurdity in their argument. Yes i thought it was funny ... i laughfed ... but i did not think i was clever for making it up. That is just not the way i rock inside.
When a comedian tells you a joke, do you ask him if he thought he was clever and funny in making that up?
Incidentally the worse part of your "statement" was about my expectation of rave reviews. All i *hoped* for was that somebody would see the flaw in the pro gun propaganda based upon my spass. Did i expect it? ... not really and i'm not surprised that nobody noticed the point ... apparently not even you. You might have been too busy thinking of how to jab you insulting words into my emotions.
I would evaluate what you said as poppycock. You were probably expecting the anti-gun choir that you preach to to like it as banal, eh?
Seth says
I didn't think about my ability at all ... i didn't think about any cleaverness ... i was thinking only of expressing the point ... of contriving an instrument that was cheap and lethal and was not a gun. It was not about me. It was not about my cleverness. When i first got the idea, i laughed. I didn't think of myself at all. I thought this might point out a weakness in the NRA type propaganda ... an absurdity in their argument. Yes i thought it was funny ... i laughfed ... but i did not think i was clever for making it up. That is just not the way i rock inside.
When a comedian tells you a joke, do you ask him if he thought he was clever and funny in making that up?
Incidentally the worse part of your "statement" was about my expectation of rave reviews. All i *hoped* for was that somebody would see the flaw in the pro gun propaganda based upon my spass. Did i expect it? ... not really and i'm not surprised that nobody noticed the point ... apparently not even you. You might have been too busy thinking of how to jab you insulting words into my emotions.
MR 2013-01-08 08:58:41 16369
seth 2013-01-08 08:55:38 16369
Well we are all in that predicament ... only I have access to how i feel inside. When you presume to know how i feel inside about something, then you are telling yourself a lie.
Now you can know things about the things i do that can be observed from outside and certainly say true things about them. For example you could have said "Nobody got your point about the lethal keychain" ... and that may have been true. You could say, I (Mark), didn't think the keychain was clever and i'm not going to rave about it. Or that "nobody will think you as clever as your might think you are". Those all could be true sentences. But when you go that extra step and make up negative stuff and try to win an argument by wipeing it in my face, that is just an offense.
You might look beyond the immediate RWG of this matter ... get out of that plane ... and see if you can understand what i am actually talking about. The way you talk to me is not helpful for our mutual consciousness. Just think about that for a moment ... don't let it get you angry.
MR 2013-01-08 08:29:20 16369
Somehow you are arrogant enough to think you are the sole holder of truth & truth about yourself. I don't agree!
Well we are all in that predicament ... only I have access to how i feel inside. When you presume to know how i feel inside about something, then you are telling yourself a lie.
Now you can know things about the things i do that can be observed from outside and certainly say true things about them. For example you could have said "Nobody got your point about the lethal keychain" ... and that may have been true. You could say, I (Mark), didn't think the keychain was clever and i'm not going to rave about it. Or that "nobody will think you as clever as your might think you are". Those all could be true sentences. But when you go that extra step and make up negative stuff and try to win an argument by wipeing it in my face, that is just an offense.
You might look beyond the immediate RWG of this matter ... get out of that plane ... and see if you can understand what i am actually talking about. The way you talk to me is not helpful for our mutual consciousness. Just think about that for a moment ... don't let it get you angry.
Let me ask you a question for which I hold you responsible for telling the truth about. Did you think you were clever to come up with the keychain thingy?
Did you think it was funny?
Did you think it was funny?I didn't think about my ability at all ... i didn't think about any cleaverness ... i was thinking only of expressing the point ... of contriving an instrument that was cheap and lethal and was not a gun. It was not about me. It was not about my cleverness. When i first got the idea, i laughed. I didn't think of myself at all. I thought this might point out a weakness in the NRA type propaganda ... an absurdity in their argument. Yes i thought it was funny ... i laughfed ... but i did not think i was clever for making it up. That is just not the way i rock inside.
When a comedian tells you a joke, do you ask him if he thought he was clever and funny in making that up?
Incidentally the worse part of your "statement" was about my expectation of rave reviews. All i *hoped* for was that somebody would see the flaw in the pro gun propaganda based upon my spass. Did i expect it? ... not really and i'm not surprised that nobody noticed the point ... apparently not even you. You might have been too busy thinking of how to jab you insulting words into my emotions.
Seth says
MR 2013-01-08 12:12:12 16369
seth 2013-01-08 12:10:32 16369
MR 2013-01-08 11:46:49 16369
seth 2013-01-08 10:04:31 16369
The golden rule is "a set of rules of conduct or procedure" which is a rubric. Truth is not, though nobody said it was.
Where is the set? Enumerate it please. It is not a set of rules - that is a lie!
It is a rule, a rubric, accept that without quibbling or be ignored.
I won't accept your LIE!
What lie is that?
Seth says
Nope, i have given up expecting any useful dialogue from you a long time ago.
MR 2013-01-08 12:24:28 16369
seth 2013-01-08 12:18:20 16369
MR 2013-01-08 11:52:18 16369
seth 2013-01-08 09:23:38 16369
I didn't think about my ability at all ... i didn't think about any cleaverness ... i was thinking only of expressing the point ... of contriving an instrument that was cheap and lethal and was not a gun. It was not about me. It was not about my cleverness. When i first got the idea, i laughed. I didn't think of myself at all. I thought this might point out a weakness in the NRA type propaganda ... an absurdity in their argument. Yes i thought it was funny ... i laughfed ... but i did not think i was clever for making it up. That is just not the way i rock inside.
When a comedian tells you a joke, do you ask him if he thought he was clever and funny in making that up?
Incidentally the worse part of your "statement" was about my expectation of rave reviews. All i *hoped* for was that somebody would see the flaw in the pro gun propaganda based upon my spass. Did i expect it? ... not really and i'm not surprised that nobody noticed the point ... apparently not even you. You might have been too busy thinking of how to jab you insulting words into my emotions.
MR 2013-01-08 08:58:41 16369
seth 2013-01-08 08:55:38 16369
Well we are all in that predicament ... only I have access to how i feel inside. When you presume to know how i feel inside about something, then you are telling yourself a lie.
Now you can know things about the things i do that can be observed from outside and certainly say true things about them. For example you could have said "Nobody got your point about the lethal keychain" ... and that may have been true. You could say, I (Mark), didn't think the keychain was clever and i'm not going to rave about it. Or that "nobody will think you as clever as your might think you are". Those all could be true sentences. But when you go that extra step and make up negative stuff and try to win an argument by wipeing it in my face, that is just an offense.
You might look beyond the immediate RWG of this matter ... get out of that plane ... and see if you can understand what i am actually talking about. The way you talk to me is not helpful for our mutual consciousness. Just think about that for a moment ... don't let it get you angry.
MR 2013-01-08 08:29:20 16369
Somehow you are arrogant enough to think you are the sole holder of truth & truth about yourself. I don't agree!
Well we are all in that predicament ... only I have access to how i feel inside. When you presume to know how i feel inside about something, then you are telling yourself a lie.
Now you can know things about the things i do that can be observed from outside and certainly say true things about them. For example you could have said "Nobody got your point about the lethal keychain" ... and that may have been true. You could say, I (Mark), didn't think the keychain was clever and i'm not going to rave about it. Or that "nobody will think you as clever as your might think you are". Those all could be true sentences. But when you go that extra step and make up negative stuff and try to win an argument by wipeing it in my face, that is just an offense.
You might look beyond the immediate RWG of this matter ... get out of that plane ... and see if you can understand what i am actually talking about. The way you talk to me is not helpful for our mutual consciousness. Just think about that for a moment ... don't let it get you angry.
Let me ask you a question for which I hold you responsible for telling the truth about. Did you think you were clever to come up with the keychain thingy?
Did you think it was funny?
Did you think it was funny?I didn't think about my ability at all ... i didn't think about any cleaverness ... i was thinking only of expressing the point ... of contriving an instrument that was cheap and lethal and was not a gun. It was not about me. It was not about my cleverness. When i first got the idea, i laughed. I didn't think of myself at all. I thought this might point out a weakness in the NRA type propaganda ... an absurdity in their argument. Yes i thought it was funny ... i laughfed ... but i did not think i was clever for making it up. That is just not the way i rock inside.
When a comedian tells you a joke, do you ask him if he thought he was clever and funny in making that up?
Incidentally the worse part of your "statement" was about my expectation of rave reviews. All i *hoped* for was that somebody would see the flaw in the pro gun propaganda based upon my spass. Did i expect it? ... not really and i'm not surprised that nobody noticed the point ... apparently not even you. You might have been too busy thinking of how to jab you insulting words into my emotions.
I would evaluate what you said as poppycock. You were probably expecting the anti-gun choir that you preach to to like it as banal, eh?
That was sarcasm pointing to whatever you want to call what you expected to come from the choir you are preaching to. You certainly don't expect me to agree, once again, with this horseshit.
Nope, i have given up expecting any useful dialogue from you a long time ago.See Also
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