Right & Wrong Versus Rights & Wrongs (NOT to be confused with the right-wrong game)

No wonder we are confused (see the visual thesaurus graph below). In days of old we turned as a people to religion & leaders of people to define what is right & wrong - the code of behavior for life.  Maybe the War on Religion has been won, but the question remains "Who Won?".  Without religion & intuitive morals & an intense RWG haggling about the internal sense of the Golden Rule, what do we use for guidance?  What I see today is turning to polls, speeches, political correctness (i.e. spreading lies), money, power & the corruption that all that brings; Main stream & social media spreading what's popular. 
 My idea most closely aligns with the meaning of the word righteousness!

Tags

  1. morality
  2. rwg
  3. communication failure

Comments


Mark de LA says
The meaning of rights as in "civil rights" touches on such as the above but is expanded to the group level and individual versus society here:
1.
in accordance with what is good, proper, or just: right conduct.
2.
in conformity with fact, reason, truth, or some standard or principle; correct: the right solution; the right answer.
3.
correct in judgment, opinion, or action.
4.
fitting or appropriate; suitable: to say the right thing at the right time.
5.
most convenient, desirable, or favorable: Omaha is the right location for a meatpacking firm.
6.
of, pertaining to, or located on or near the side of a person or thing that is turned toward the east when the subject is facing north ( opposed to left ).
7.
in a satisfactory state; in good order: to put things right.
8.
sound, sane, or normal: to be in one's right mind; She wasn't right in her head when she made the will.
9.
in good health or spirits: I don't feel quite right today.
10.
principal, front, or upper: the right side of cloth.
11.
( often initial capital letter  ) of or pertaining to political conservatives or their beliefs.
12.
socially approved, desirable, or influential: to go to the right schools and know the right people.
13.
formed by or with reference to a perpendicular: a right angle.
14.
straight: a right line.
15.
Geometry . having an axis perpendicular to the base: a right cone.
16.
Mathematics . pertaining to an element of a set that has a given property when placed on the right of an element or set of elements of the given set: a right identity.
17.
genuine; authentic: the right owner.
noun
18.
a just claim or title, whether legal, prescriptive, or moral: You have a right to say what you please.
19.
Sometimes, rights. that which is due to anyone by just claim, legal guarantees, moral principles, etc.: women's rights; Freedom of speech is a right of all Americans.
20.
adherence or obedience to moral and legal principles and authority.
21.
that which is morally, legally, or ethically proper: to know right from wrong.
22.
a moral, ethical, or legal principle considered as an underlying cause of truth, justice, morality, or ethics.
ETC.


Mark de LA says
I prefer for the moment to choose my own inner guidance, since nobody else has a fool proof plan, & follow the Golden Rule as best I can sense it.  Some help can be found for anyone else who has an open heart in these Day of the Week Exercises inspired through Rudolf Steiner.
***
TUESDAY

External actions. These should not be disturbing for our fellow-men. Where an occasion calls for action out of one's inner being, deliberate carefully how one can best meet the occasion — for the good of the whole, the lasting happiness of man, the eternal.

Where one does things of one's own accord, out of one's own initiative: consider most thoroughly beforehand the effect of one's actions.

This is called:

‘RIGHT DEED.’





Seth says
M 2013-04-23 11:49:15 16488
seth 2013-04-23 10:30:10 16488
M 2013-04-23 09:55:54 16488
seth 2013-04-23 09:18:36 16488
source: Mark asks
what do we use for guidance?

Well i like the idea that we are free ... and that means to me that we each determine what is right or wrong for ourselves.  No centralized story ... no need for some preacher to tell us what is right for us ... but actually ends us being best for the preacher and primarily serves his ends.  So now i focus on what is important for me, and my environment, and my culture and that is my guidance.   So there are a lot of choices out there and people will take different paths ... what works is what survives the longest ... that in itself is good for our survival collectively. 
Well essentially you agree with Rudolf Steiner above. BTW, some predict that the end of Earth survival will be a planet covered with cockroaches. 

i'm not so pessimistic
Actually your outcome is more pessimistic than you can imagine.  ALL of us survive until we don't - nobody gets out of here alive!  If you get the contents of BofNK then you realize that you spend your entire life making a self or ego, which does not survive, & even that does not survive the body. Enjoy.
well some of us do contemplate how our current actions affect the long range survival of the human race.   it was the success of those efforts about which i am not as pessimistic as to think that they will fail and the Earth would be ceded to the roaches.  obviously i was not talking about the survival of my own ego and/or body in a context of "the end of Earth" ... so i have no idea why you mung my  response up with that.   Are you expressing some kind of prejudice against including practical considerations of the long term survival in the ethics of what we currently do? As you can see i am left with not knowing what you are saying to me. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-04-23 14:07:33 16488
M 2013-04-23 11:49:15 16488
seth 2013-04-23 10:30:10 16488
M 2013-04-23 09:55:54 16488
seth 2013-04-23 09:18:36 16488
source: Mark asks
what do we use for guidance?

Well i like the idea that we are free ... and that means to me that we each determine what is right or wrong for ourselves.  No centralized story ... no need for some preacher to tell us what is right for us ... but actually ends us being best for the preacher and primarily serves his ends.  So now i focus on what is important for me, and my environment, and my culture and that is my guidance.   So there are a lot of choices out there and people will take different paths ... what works is what survives the longest ... that in itself is good for our survival collectively. 
Well essentially you agree with Rudolf Steiner above. BTW, some predict that the end of Earth survival will be a planet covered with cockroaches. 

i'm not so pessimistic
Actually your outcome is more pessimistic than you can imagine.  ALL of us survive until we don't - nobody gets out of here alive!  If you get the contents of BofNK then you realize that you spend your entire life making a self or ego, which does not survive, & even that does not survive the body. Enjoy.
well some of us do contemplate how our current actions affect the long range survival of the human race.   it was the success of those efforts about which i am not as pessimistic as to think that they will fail and the Earth would be ceded to the roaches.  obviously i was not talking about the survival of my own ego and/or body in a context of "the end of Earth" ... so i have no idea why you mung my  response up with that.   Are you expressing some kind of prejudice against including practical considerations of the long term survival in the ethics of what we currently do? As you can see i am left with not knowing what you are saying to me. 
I am mocking your worship of the survival meme. There is no pessimism in Rudolf Steiner.
You have to get some morals  of one kind or another from some place. You can make up your own religion or anti-religion, but this item is trying to explore exactly what that is. I perceive on my own that the current culture has mostly lost its direction & moral compass.


Mark de LA says
seth 2013-04-23 10:30:10 16488
M 2013-04-23 09:55:54 16488
seth 2013-04-23 09:18:36 16488
source: Mark asks
what do we use for guidance?

Well i like the idea that we are free ... and that means to me that we each determine what is right or wrong for ourselves.  No centralized story ... no need for some preacher to tell us what is right for us ... but actually ends us being best for the preacher and primarily serves his ends.  So now i focus on what is important for me, and my environment, and my culture and that is my guidance.   So there are a lot of choices out there and people will take different paths ... what works is what survives the longest ... that in itself is good for our survival collectively. 
Well essentially you agree with Rudolf Steiner above. BTW, some predict that the end of Earth survival will be a planet covered with cockroaches. 

i'm not so pessimistic
Actually your outcome is more pessimistic than you can imagine.  ALL of us survive until we don't - nobody gets out of here alive!  If you get the contents of BofNK then you realize that you spend your entire life making a self or ego, which does not survive, & even that does not survive the body. Enjoy.

Mark de LA says
Survival is of type Darwinian religion!   Seth pays homage to it here: 2838 which I thought he repeated in Facebook but could not find.


Mark de LA says
seth 2013-04-24 04:30:59 16488
re your paragraph ... every think that maybe morality it is not all about *you* .... that survival might just be about the other person's survival ... maybe even the next generation ... and the one beyond that?

.... thanks for noticing that i might have discovered one basis for morality: noticing when you are oblivious to something that is important to others.   Might that not be an important edge to leverage in understanding how to make a better world ... err, perhaps a gateway to some kind of morality?
it is kind of golden rulie, after all ... i thought you might like it .

some rwg to get you going: noticing your own obliviousness kind of conflicts with your prejudices against respect for otherness ... oh, wait a minute, you don't call it that .... you would call it the liberal corruption of multiculturalism ... .

anyway ... i really am not into hearing your righteous indignation and all of your twisting what i say so that you can mock it in your own prejudiced mind.  i have heard enough of that to last a lifetime.  talking about morality is not the place to play rwg.
I never thought morality was "about me" - as your above disconnected rant is not about anything connected with the topic except the anger you uncovered for yourself doing it!  It is now time for YOU to get your head out of the ASSHOLE of polarization politics & into common sense.


Mark de LA says
seth 2013-04-23 20:24:49 16488
M 2013-04-23 19:09:07 16488
Survival is of type Darwinian religion!   Seth pays homage to it here: 2838 which I thought he repeated in Facebook but could not find.

well any morality that is oblivious to survival is not worth contemplating.  sure, there are other important considerations as well ... like increasing choices for everyone and the golden rule ... but survival is way up there.  your own attitudes towards it dripping in prejudices about Darwinian theories notwithstanding.

Incidentally most of the people around me and in my community have not lost their moral compass ... not like the impression you might get if you were to steep yourself in the propaganda coming from Fox news which continually drones on about morally corrupt liberals.  In fact, most of the time i fine your own morals abominable based upon the things you jump on in social media. 

But, hey, have fun with it ... it is not really my concern ... i even respect your choices and tolerate them or ignore them ... that being one of my morals.  strange how that particular moral code can almost be derived from survival ...  to bad you are so very prejudiced against it.

Sentence one is a piece of shit because Seth made up the oblivious thing - not me. My emphasis is survival is like air breathing I ignore it until threatened, but it is not at the top of my list. Putting that at the top of the list is not my way of life  -- too warlike; exhibitions of rwg like behavior notwithstanding.  Your mind reading shows me that you have your head up your ass so far you must be reading your own mind.  All of the stuff in 2nd & 3rd paragraphs are 100% off target - a result of watching say too much lying CNN or MSNBC.  Your tone missed the purpose of this item and you ignored the points & took on a combative nature. Way to go ! Still, all in all, you still don't know where your morals come from.
 

Seth says
M 2013-04-23 15:30:46 16488
seth 2013-04-23 14:07:33 16488
M 2013-04-23 11:49:15 16488
seth 2013-04-23 10:30:10 16488
M 2013-04-23 09:55:54 16488
seth 2013-04-23 09:18:36 16488
source: Mark asks
what do we use for guidance?

Well i like the idea that we are free ... and that means to me that we each determine what is right or wrong for ourselves.  No centralized story ... no need for some preacher to tell us what is right for us ... but actually ends us being best for the preacher and primarily serves his ends.  So now i focus on what is important for me, and my environment, and my culture and that is my guidance.   So there are a lot of choices out there and people will take different paths ... what works is what survives the longest ... that in itself is good for our survival collectively. 
Well essentially you agree with Rudolf Steiner above. BTW, some predict that the end of Earth survival will be a planet covered with cockroaches. 

i'm not so pessimistic
Actually your outcome is more pessimistic than you can imagine.  ALL of us survive until we don't - nobody gets out of here alive!  If you get the contents of BofNK then you realize that you spend your entire life making a self or ego, which does not survive, & even that does not survive the body. Enjoy.
well some of us do contemplate how our current actions affect the long range survival of the human race.   it was the success of those efforts about which i am not as pessimistic as to think that they will fail and the Earth would be ceded to the roaches.  obviously i was not talking about the survival of my own ego and/or body in a context of "the end of Earth" ... so i have no idea why you mung my  response up with that.   Are you expressing some kind of prejudice against including practical considerations of the long term survival in the ethics of what we currently do? As you can see i am left with not knowing what you are saying to me. 
I am mocking your worship of the survival meme. There is no pessimism in Rudolf Steiner.
You have to get some morals  of one kind or another from some place. You can make up your own religion or anti-religion, but this item is trying to explore exactly what that is. I perceive on my own that the current culture has mostly lost its direction & moral compass.


well i don't worship survival, yet at the same time i am not oblivious to it ... as your comment about roaches hit me as being.  for me, survival is an important moral compass .... though not the only one.  it does have the advantage of being independent of any religious dogma. 

But the question arises as to "survival of what" ... mere survival of our biological bodies could leave us prey to enterprises which made batteries of them.

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-04-24 03:47:54 16488
well anyway ...

i said all that to say ...

if you really are interested in morality apart from religious prejudices ...

then leave your own at the door.
... That's a huge god damned DITTO to you , bro!


Mark de LA says
The best example of what SURVIVAL & NOT SURVIVAL looks like is on Wild Kingdom & Animal Planet where the big cats eat Zerbras & the snakes swallow each other.

Mark de LA says
I was mostly interested in starting a conversation on rights as in civil & the bill of ... comparing & contrasting such to the nature of "right & wrong" in the context of morality, but ...


Mark de LA says
seth 2013-04-24 09:10:55 16488
M 2013-04-24 07:12:13 16488
seth 2013-04-24 04:30:59 16488
re your paragraph ... every think that maybe morality it is not all about *you* .... that survival might just be about the other person's survival ... maybe even the next generation ... and the one beyond that?

[snip]

I never thought morality was "about me" - [snip]

i don't know Mark ... seems to me that your sentences:  "My emphasis is survival is like air breathing I ignore it until threatened, but it is not at the top of my list. Putting that at the top of the list is not my way of life  -- too warlike; exhibitions of rwg like behavior notwithstanding. "  are actually all about you.

So when i raised the point that survival was an important consideration for morality, you said you were not interested in that ... you became oblivious to that ... rather you became concerned with ... thought i was talking about a first person survival. 

think about if ... if there were only you and you alone ... would there even ever be any question of morality?   Seriously, that is a question to ponder totally apart from any rwg that is going on.  Me, i'm thinking that morality is really all about the other guy.   It is kind of back to the golden rule in that regard.   If you re-read what i said above that you responded so negatively to you might grock that is all i am saying. 
Morality is about a code of conduct! The rest of what you said just doesn't make any sense in the context of this item. It is mostly RWG. If people want to rise above the level of animals they need to get themselves one.


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