Different Viewpoints

About: Upside Down Middle East Viewpoint via Google Earth (& Mark)



I've tried  this out with several different countries. The viewpoint from Russia is interesting in the Middle East. Indonesia looks like a paradise of a circle of Islands etc.
This is just a screen scrape the original files are too large here. Try it yourself, especially for any of the hot spots where the drums of war are beating.
 

Tags

  1. middle east
  2. russia
  3. syria
  4. worldview
  5. google earth
  6. listening
  7. still
  8. personal
  9. already
  10. BabyBrother

Comments


Mark de LA says
For example, Russia occupies about the same relative position to the Middle East as Canada does for the United States.  Don't argue about this it is just a wallaby & an imperfect spec.  Turn the picture upside down in Google Earth yourself. Canada would worry if the United States was occupied by belligerants who did not share language & culture similar to their own.


Seth says
well yes .... Russia will have a different view of the world than we do,  just because of the geography.  

It's interesting to note that Egypt has now sided with the Opposition in Syria.  That is the old Sunni fight Shiite fight club .... which dominates the Middle East.  

Mark de LA says
MR 2013-06-16 10:04:15 16572



Seth says
MR 2013-06-17 07:36:27 16572
The point, maybe missed, is that if you are in the North you have one viewpoint of the neighborhood looking down as if everything is below & conversely.  I read a book many years ago about people drawing maps of their neighborhood where the details get sketchier the farther away from their experience & very detailed where they live. That paradigm governs more than just geography it expands to politics etc.


well i don't know if i "missed" any of that, since when i read your paragraph here it all just clicks as if it were my own thought ... .


thing is, when you consider global politics, geography might not always be the dominant consideration.   that is why i mentioned the fight clubs that seem to dominate the politics of the middle east.   we americans don't always, me thinks, grock how important that fight is to the middle east ... instead we seem to always interpret the fights to be about democracy vs totalarian ... but is that actually the primary fight which results obtain?

Seth says
MR 2013-06-17 09:17:44 16572
seth 2013-06-17 09:09:39 16572
MR 2013-06-17 09:03:09 16572
seth 2013-06-17 08:45:08 16572
MR 2013-06-17 08:39:17 16572
#still_missed_the_point
such an assertion without explanation is meaningless to me.  it does not inform.  rather it just expressess rwg.  have fun with that.
You almost always talk about something of your own which is not what I am talking about.  Good luck with your #personal_walled_garden!
[[midfing]]

hmmm ... well doubtlessly that is true ... but is it not always the case with any actual conversation?

what i claim i do is first try to understand what you are saying ... then my response will be what my peculiar perspective has to inform what you actually said. 

i have no idea why that should annoy you.
Not true. You most always do not inform me of what I actually said. Still in delusion! You at best tell me what ran through your mind ABOUT what I said.
[[midfing]]2

Mark, how does "first try to understand what you are saying" get twisted into "inform me of what I actually said".   You could try to understand what i actually do say before you twist it into something entirely different.   No, i do not try to parrot back to you what you say ... rather i try to understand it myself ... then my response is to inform you of something else ... of to ... err ... contribute to the train of thought.   If i don't understand what you said, then i usually try to ask about it, or if i suspect it is destructive to my own trains, will just ignore it.   If i just understood, and then regurgitated it back to you, of what use is that?    

Really, of what use is that?

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-06-17 09:09:39 16572
MR 2013-06-17 09:03:09 16572
seth 2013-06-17 08:45:08 16572
MR 2013-06-17 08:39:17 16572
#still_missed_the_point
such an assertion without explanation is meaningless to me.  it does not inform.  rather it just expressess rwg.  have fun with that.
You almost always talk about something of your own which is not what I am talking about.  Good luck with your #personal_walled_garden!
[[midfing]]

hmmm ... well doubtlessly that is true ... but is it not always the case with any actual conversation?

what i claim i do is first try to understand what you are saying ... then my response will be what my peculiar perspective has to inform what you actually said. 

i have no idea why that should annoy you.
Not true. You most always do not inform me of what I actually said. Still in delusion! You at best tell me what ran through your mind ABOUT what I said.
[[midfing]]2

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-06-17 09:23:56 16572
MR 2013-06-17 09:17:44 16572
seth 2013-06-17 09:09:39 16572
MR 2013-06-17 09:03:09 16572
seth 2013-06-17 08:45:08 16572
MR 2013-06-17 08:39:17 16572
#still_missed_the_point
such an assertion without explanation is meaningless to me.  it does not inform.  rather it just expressess rwg.  have fun with that.
You almost always talk about something of your own which is not what I am talking about.  Good luck with your #personal_walled_garden!
[[midfing]]

hmmm ... well doubtlessly that is true ... but is it not always the case with any actual conversation?

what i claim i do is first try to understand what you are saying ... then my response will be what my peculiar perspective has to inform what you actually said. 

i have no idea why that should annoy you.
Not true. You most always do not inform me of what I actually said. Still in delusion! You at best tell me what ran through your mind ABOUT what I said.
[[midfing]]2

Mark, how does "first try to understand what you are saying" get twisted into "inform me of what I actually said".   You could try to understand what i actually do say before you twist it into something entirely different.   No, i do not try to parrot back to you what you say ... rather i try to understand it myself ... then my response is to inform you of something else ... of to ... err ... contribute to the train of thought.   If i don't understand what you said, then i usually try to ask about it, or if i suspect it is destructive to my own trains, will just ignore it.   If i just understood, and then regurgitated it back to you, of what use is that?    

Really, of what use is that?
I bolded it for you! I reiterate that most of the time I get the distinct idea that you missed what I said & just used my post as a springboard to regurgitate something of yours.  As an example, I could be wrong here ,did you actually try in Google Earth to rotate the viewpoint of some region of the Earth & see what that does to your geographic understanding of the countries in that region?  I claim, as a result of the experiment, that some countries like Russia are a north centric, the US is middle centric & those below the equator are otherwise. The Norks have a peculiar view from being dominated by China, with Japan blocking them & the Phillippeans further restricting their southern lanes with the South Koreans blocking their land lines south.  Their geography could very well lead to paranoia!


Seth says
source: mark
I claim, as a result of the experiment, that some countries like Russia are a north centric, the US is middle centric & those below the equator are otherwise. The Norks have a peculiar view from being dominated by China, with Japan blocking them & the Phillippeans further restricting their southern lanes with the South Koreans blocking their land lines south.  Their geography could very well lead to paranoia! I claim, as a result of the experiment, that some countries like Russia are a north centric, the US is middle centric & those below the equator are otherwise. The Norks have a peculiar view from being dominated by China, with Japan blocking them & the Phillippeans further restricting their southern lanes with the South Koreans blocking their land lines south.  Their geography could very well lead to paranoia!
... well for me blocking and dominating and restricting have nothing to do with up/down, north/south.  blocking and dominating and restricting have only to do with proximity and access ... how hard is it to get there, what kind of resource access is being controlled by one country or the next. 

but several years ago i was totally into Google Earth and rotated thing around a lot.  but i did not get any particular political gestalt.  so, no, i don't know what you are talking about.

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-06-19 07:16:04 16572
MR 2013-06-18 13:14:30 16572
ALREADY ALWAYS LISTENING #already_always_listening

Most of us have an already-always-listening of “I am right”, or at least, “I am not wrong”.

As a consequence, when something challenges what we think or believe, we are often unable to consider this other view as a real possibility, and to examine it as though it might be right, or worse yet, that we might actually be wrong.

We get defensive. And, if it turns out that we can’t escape the validity of this other view, or that we were actually wrong, this listening often leaves us upset, and with an unexpressed feeling of resentment.

This almost universal listening prompted William James, the father of American psychology, to say, “When a thing is new, people say ‘It is not true’.

Later when its truth becomes obvious, they say ‘It’s not important’. Finally, when its importance cannot be denied, they say, ‘Anyway, it’s not new’.”

(W. Erhard & M. Jensen from the Ontological Leadership Course)

Well yeah we both do it.

lots of it goes back to our childhood history and habits.

i think there is not just a little bit of the old, "hey let me do it myself",  i sure got a healthy dose of that sitting at GW's table and having to watch him draw the geometric lines.

but who knows maybe it is all just social morphogenic fileds ... lol.


i certainly can see the gestalt that looking at something from an entirely different point of view can jog your perspective and allow you to see something that you would not ordinarily.  me, i used to switch my position in bed so that i would alter my perspective to the world when i woke up.  that's what i get from this item.   Was there something else here?
Yep!
I don't have your childhood thingy. 
While you (& I) have the RWG down pat, this is a predisposed way of hearing what another says. It may never get expressed in an argument or conversation at all. It does shape our world & we shape other's world with it. I doubt that shifting positions in bed will do the job.  It takes a bit of transformation to get out of it.  For example, I can express a listening for a particular context by starting out "My listening for you is that you are still like baby brother or the Seth from childhood" & you would then acknowledge (w/o the rwg) what I have said & come up with some positive ways to transform my listening into the current time.


Mark de LA says
Perhaps a better listening context is that my listening for you is mostly in the context of "sibling rivalry"; especially as we relate on facebook.


Mark de LA says
MR 2013-06-21 08:01:44 16572
seth 2013-06-21 07:52:14 16572
MR 2013-06-21 07:41:01 16572
Well as of lately I am abandoning the #BabyBrother mindtag  as it doesn't serve me much.  It only surfaces when you do a sort of Genesthai authority script & ignore what I write.  We have both earned the right in the last ~70 years to be co-equal siblings - true brothers & human beings.


amen to that ... though i even like my role there. 

sometime i can get into the Magister Ludi script ... it's one i like ... but, perchance not one you are all that very familiar with ... the book being rather long and obscure at times.  i really liked the part about how he became egoless ... how their whole culture lacked the obsession ours has with celebrity status and authority.  there is the thing in there also about his brother (or was it just a friend) ... how he was in the world ... while the other brother went into the cloisters of the game.   sometimes i think that is kind of like you and me. 
Siddhartha was the only one I could read.  Some others, including the GBG I could not get into because they seemed so artificial & labored. Strange though I could get into Robert Heinlein & his whole invented world.

Maybe because there was more sex & less intellectualism.


Seth says
MR 2013-06-20 20:22:26 16572
seth 2013-06-20 19:24:33 16572
MR 2013-06-19 11:06:30 16572
Perhaps a better listening context is that my listening for you is mostly in the context of "sibling rivalry"; especially as we relate on facebook.


well i like your term "listening context" and "listening for".   that is the way it feels.

me, i try not to "listen for a sibling rivalry context" ... just not interested.   i try to listen  for a better understanding of the world ... and/or actual new information ...  and/or even a better understanding  about you and your mind. 


but actually, i don't know what you are saying here ... what i hear here is just confusing ... that is outside of the new term.  For example you say, "I don't have your childhood thingy", but does that mean that there is no script or story in your mind about what happens between us ... no role to play ... no role to expect that i play?   Really?
I don't have the thingy about watching GW do the projective geometry that you seemed to be bugged with.  Nor the thing that caused you to "run away from home" .  I told you the baby brother script thing already - did you miss that script?


Well i can gladly play baby brother to your big brother

I probably got a lot of my "i want to do it myself" script via jealously of watching you as much as i did from GW ... but it is not something that i am "bugged with" ... it is just there ... nor does it hurt.

anyway thanks for clearing up my confusion about what you said ... lately i am having more and more problems guessing your meanings ... don't know if that is just me ... or whether it is just you ... or both of us.

Seth says
i think there is a way you could have uploaded your particular views of the world here ... when clicked upon they would have taken me directly to that view within the Google Earth app.   For example here is a view of an exposed water pipe that i took in 2007.  Click on that and see if it takes you to my map in your Google Earth app ... also see 7711 or others in google earth.   I think you can upload kmz files direct to fastblogit, but i am not sure ... nor am i sure whether this format has changed since 2007.

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-06-29 07:06:17 16572
i think there is a way you could have uploaded your particular views of the world here ... when clicked upon they would have taken me directly to that view within the Google Earth app.   For example here is a view of an exposed water pipe that i took in 2007.  Click on that and see if it takes you to my map in your Google Earth app ... also see 7711 or others in google earth.   I think you can upload kmz files direct to fastblogit, but i am not sure ... nor am i sure whether this format has changed since 2007.
Nice! I will have to explore doing that some day. Of course that was not the point of my exercise!

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