Seth & Words - Confusion (moved)

seth 2013-07-18 11:06:58 [item 16650]
MR 2013-07-18 10:44:47 [item 16650]
seth 2013-07-18 10:16:44 [item 16650]
i totally agree that Kneejerk Politics & Hate sucks, big time.

i think the idea that one can always have positive emotions (and reactions) to everything that happens is fundamentally flawed.  to me that would be like living in one half of the Tao ... just like always mismatching is kind of living in the other side. 

[snip unrelated material]
Well this is about the wallaby I have had ( originally a peyote experience in PJ2) & at least blogged here in June of 2007.  I think that since words have lost the original power & the power to create (e.g. In the beginning was the word ..) they will continue onward through their decline with politics, social media & identity hate, government-speak, political correctness etc until they are not of value in human commucation, rhetoric, or rationality.  Music, poetry & art still has the power to move, motivate, bring together & inspire & will increase such depending upon what purpose it is dedicated to. The prime example was Woodstock which defined the zenith of the flower children's generation & probably can't be reapeated; although it has been tried. Every song or video etc that I run into which gives me an emotional impact I blog on [tag songs]. I try to identify the emotional experience - at least in my own soul. I want to keep this purpose for the tagroom.



art, poetry, drama and music are totally inspiring and do get at the real meaning of some things that mere prose cannot .


but i think that words have just as much "original power" as they even had, if not more.   I think the notion pointed to by the phrase "in the beginning was the word" has been hopelessly confused.  I have noticed that you in particular always go to  etymology, apparently trying to retrieve some original power of a word.  But, me thinks, they never did have any extra power above their use as signs ... as such they work quite wonderfully powerful enough for me
OK so you have started yet another argument here which is against my wallaby & my purpose. Put it somewhere else. It will be deleted when I get a Think about the power of words using political correctness & tne n-word. Think of those billions of dollars spent on advertizements trying to make candidate words mean something while you move your mismatching argument somewhere else before I delete it.
******
source: marked said
"the power of words using political correctness & tne n-word. Think of those billions of dollars spent on advertizements trying to make candidate words mean something"
... yep that sucks .  

maybe we should work against the power of money to buy political attention.

Tags

  1. moved
  2. questions
  3. communication
  4. words
  5. big bang

Comments


Seth says
MR 2013-07-18 14:31:59 16652
seth 2013-07-18 12:56:26 16652
MR 2013-07-18 12:41:53 16652
If words had any power or meaning you wouldn't have to buy so many.
... kind of like a magical invocation where just saying the word would be like a command that made it happen ... eh?
Have you ever been inspired by a song, movie, multi-media experience or piece of art to change your mind or be different than before you encountered it?  I got a little of that in the current Netflix series "Orange is the new Black".
Speeches, argumentation, & the like do nothing for me especially when they are constructed out of cleverness & deception & intended to make things happen which I do not want to happen.
As an aside CFR's book K & Rudolf Steiner project that in the future our larynx will develop into an organ of conception for creating other spiritual beings; Book K describes the hierarchies who out of their deeds & self expression poured themselves into the elements of the first traces of human beings & the Earth.  But you can continue believing that it all started in a black hole that just happened to be floating around in a pool of nothing. 
Enjoy!



Well certainly i have been "inspired" by art, drama, and music !

But I can't remember when it actually *changed* my mind ... rather it just enhanced an  emotion that i was already primed for.   But i suppose it has happened.  For example i found out that the financial sector had grow by leaps and bounds in the last decade and is out of balance with the real economy,  then i watched a movie which dramatized it ... that movie served up the emotions.  Had i not already have believed the unbalance ... i expect that i would not have felt the same thing.  I doubt that if you showed that movie to a gung-ho stock broker they would not have changed there mind in the least ... rather they would probably have walked out of the movie.  I'm going to get my free month of streaming Netflix and am watching "Orange is the new Black" as we speak.  Thing is, although i am not color blind, i (obviously) hold no animosities towards blacks ... and have always been fascinated by woman's eroticism to women.  So i don't expect any "changes of mind" to happen here ... but i'll let you know if i do ... the titties in the first scene were fine indeed

For me the story that the larynx would become more than just a way to speak in the world is kind of science fixation and not at all exciting.   i am kind of committed and loving of the idea that all of us multiple diverse persons create and work out the spirit of what happens with our individual fee deeds.  somebody's organ doing that unilaterally is not really appealing to me. 

but that has absolutely nothing to do with "a black hole that just happened to be floating around in a pool of nothing" which to me would be a rather humorous fear of something that didn't happen instead of a feeling the awe towards the miraculous thing that did.

Wow, this Netflix streaming is sucking really badly ... the sound and the picture are totally out of sync ... not to mention the buffering. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-07-18 12:55:18 16652
i have no idea what you think you are doing here.  Of late you seem to be hyper sensitive to my response to your words. 

it seems that you expect me to react in some particular desired way, then when i do not, you get angry.

Could you clearly communicate what's going on over there with this? ... because i am a loss to figure out what could usefully happen based upon what seems to be happening between us.
I moved your shit because it was counter productive to the spirit of my post.  I don't want to see your argumentation every time I think of a song which inspires me. So If you don't like that then this is not the droid your are looking for - move on!
:|]

Mark de LA says
If words had any power or meaning you wouldn't have to buy so many.

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-07-18 12:56:26 16652
MR 2013-07-18 12:41:53 16652
If words had any power or meaning you wouldn't have to buy so many.
... kind of like a magical invocation where just saying the word would be like a command that made it happen ... eh?
Have you ever been inspired by a song, movie, multi-media experience or piece of art to change your mind or be different than before you encountered it?  I got a little of that in the current Netflix series "Orange is the new Black".
Speeches, argumentation, & the like do nothing for me especially when they are constructed out of cleverness & deception & intended to make things happen which I do not want to happen.
As an aside CFR's book K & Rudolf Steiner project that in the future our larynx will develop into an organ of conception for creating other spiritual beings; Book K describes the hierarchies who out of their deeds & self expression poured themselves into the elements of the first traces of human beings & the Earth.  But you can continue believing that it all started in a black hole that just happened to be floating around in a pool of nothing. 
Enjoy!



Mark de LA says
So called science holds that the universe began as something like a black hole & then it went bang - hence 'the big bang'. At least Stephen Hawkings believes that shit.


Mark de LA says
I am watching episode 13 tonight. It is setup for a thriller moment.

Mark de LA says
MR 2013-07-18 17:19:18 16652
I am watching episode 13 tonight. It is setup for a thriller moment.
Sometimes other ports on other computers & ipads slow down the streaming for what you are watching.  Last night it was really slow & kept reloading the buffer & we shut off our computers & it works much better. Same goes for cell phones being actively used.

BTW, most of quantum physics is science fiction.

Mark de LA says
Wait about a week & take another picture of it

Seth says
... i just had a new thought.  Science will probably eventually be able to explain the "how" or what happens and even perhaps the "why" ... but strangely enough the essence behind the miracle, for which we have no interrogative pronoun to refer to, can never be explained by the methods of science.   I bolded the new part.   In other words, we cannot yet adequately express the salient question in our language.   You have refereed to something similar when you said something like "it is a miracle that anything exists at all".   Sometimes we presume that the  language we think within can truthfully express some things that we want to think about ... but that is a really big presumption.   Let me ask you a question ... imagine that an ant has a kind of language ... could it thruthfully think about how you talked to Tina this morning?   Can a fly on a turd know the truth of the shitter?

There is, of course, this meme that goes something like: "you are unlimited, you can do and think  anything".   It is usually used in a smug way to imply the speaker is  more evolved than their audience.  Me i say that it is horse shit.  There are things for which even the very  language we must needs think within are not capable of thinking truthfully about.  That *is* a limitation for which we can evolve out of,  but not one for which we can honestly just imagine our way out of. 

Seth says
MR 2013-07-18 18:45:04 16652
MR 2013-07-18 17:19:18 16652
I am watching episode 13 tonight. It is setup for a thriller moment.
Sometimes other ports on other computers & ipads slow down the streaming for what you are watching.  Last night it was really slow & kept reloading the buffer & we shut off our computers & it works much better. Same goes for cell phones being actively used.

BTW, most of quantum physics is science fiction.

apparently i was connected to the wiFi extender in the front room rather than the master network. i reconnected and the streaming totally cleared up.  so i watched the  episode and then House of Cards too. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-07-19 11:21:04 16652
MR 2013-07-19 10:22:37 16652
seth 2013-07-19 10:15:11 16652
source: mark above
np - put a questionmark after IT?
... perhaps ... but what is the question even using the word "it"?  me i have no idea what  referential question you are talking about. 

And, yes, it is my opinion that it is not just me ... it is our very language in which people presume that they can think about these kind of things using, notwistanding that they claim that they do.

And, totally yes , art, music and drama, gets us closer.
You missed where I said in effect language is limited, consciousness is not!  If I gave you a proven (to myself) set of instructions & an exact model for how to apply them & it got you to the alleged consciousness I wouldn't even need language to describe that consciousness. Talking shit, or talking about shit is not the exact same thing as being shit!!!!!!
IT?  - is as good as whatever you were looking for, for!

well "IT?" is no better than "" ... for me it asks no question that can be answered.
      NEITHER HAVE YOU
thanks for the lesson of the relationship between language and being ... do i need to submit to you once again my diagram to prove that i have learned my lesson? 
      THAT DIAGRAM NOT USEFUL - never has been!
incidentally i also said words to the effect "language is limited, consciousness is not" ... it appears we are in violent agreement there. 
          "     "   to be two turds wrestling over a scrap of the turd of God.


Mark de LA says
seth 2013-07-19 06:29:13 16652
MR 2013-07-18 23:45:15 16652
seth 2013-07-18 22:57:37 16652
MR 2013-07-18 17:18:30 16652
So called science holds that the universe began as something like a black hole & then it went bang - hence 'the big bang'. At least Stephen Hawkings believes that shit.


extrapolating backwards using mathematical models from known measurements of the electrical energies flowing in your computer screen will not ever get you to a honey bee attracted to that yellow rose pictured to the left of this sentence ... nor to my surprise when i saw it ...  and certainly not to that which actually creates a single miracle about what is here. 

... so you don't need to factor into your thinking anything about  what an ant like me could  think i made up, when actually  i never even think about it,  because  i am qute sure it is way above my pay grade.   which is  my way of saying that your droids aren't even sniffing in the right universe
 .
I really don't know what you said above & I am beginning not to seek to know either.

It's not complicated.  The big bang can never explain the beauty of the rose.
Nor the death of the rose.  Nor the eternal plant producing roses, seeds & dying roses. Nor the roses around the Earth. Nor how a rose will turn into a human being after a quadrillion years of evolution ().

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-07-19 07:52:15 16652
... i just had a new thought.  Science will probably eventually be able to explain the "how" or what happens and even perhaps the "why" ... but strangely enough the essence behind the miracle, for which we have no interrogative pronoun to refer to, can never be explained by the methods of science.   I bolded the new part.   In other words, we cannot yet adequately express the salient question in our language.   You have refereed to something similar when you said something like "it is a miracle that anything exists at all".   Sometimes we presume that the  language we think within can truthfully express some things that we want to think about ... but that is a really big presumption.   Let me ask you a question ... imagine that an ant has a kind of language ... could it thruthfully think about how you talked to Tina this morning?   Can a fly on a turd know the truth of the shitter?

There is, of course, this meme that goes something like: "you are unlimited, you can do and think  anything".   It is usually used in a smug way to imply the speaker is  more evolved than their audience.  Me i say that it is horse shit.  There are things for which even the very  language we must needs think within are not capable of thinking truthfully about.  That *is* a limitation for which we can evolve out of,  but not one for which we can honestly just imagine our way out of. 
bolded part needs rephrasing -  IT works almost anywhere. Just do a PR contemplation intensive & ponder "Who Am I?" & then try using language to communicate whatever answer shows up to another. Doing so is the beginning of comprehending the limits of language.  Consciousness does not suffer from such limits except perhaps in certain individuals.
<- smug on purpose!

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-07-19 08:49:30 16652
MR 2013-07-19 08:04:41 16652
seth 2013-07-19 07:52:15 16652
... i just had a new thought.  Science will probably eventually be able to explain the "how" or what happens and even perhaps the "why" ... but strangely enough the essence behind the miracle, for which we have no interrogative pronoun to refer to, can never be explained by the methods of science.   I bolded the new part.   In other words, we cannot yet adequately express the salient question in our language.   You have refereed to something similar when you said something like "it is a miracle that anything exists at all".   Sometimes we presume that the  language we think within can truthfully express some things that we want to think about ... but that is a really big presumption.   Let me ask you a question ... imagine that an ant has a kind of language ... could it thruthfully think about how you talked to Tina this morning?   Can a fly on a turd know the truth of the shitter?

There is, of course, this meme that goes something like: "you are unlimited, you can do and think  anything".   It is usually used in a smug way to imply the speaker is  more evolved than their audience.  Me i say that it is horse shit.  There are things for which even the very  language we must needs think within are not capable of thinking truthfully about.  That *is* a limitation for which we can evolve out of,  but not one for which we can honestly just imagine our way out of. 
bolded part needs rephrasing -  IT works almost anywhere. Just do a PR contemplation intensive & ponder "Who Am I?" & then try using language to communicate whatever answer shows up to another. Doing so is the beginning of comprehending the limits of language.  Consciousness does not suffer from such limits except perhaps in certain individuals.
<- smug on purpose!

Well "it" is not even a interrogative pronoun ... it asks no question.  "Who" is the worst of them ... when asking your favorite metaphysical question, it is useless.  At least we appear to agree about the "limitations of communicating in language" ... but we *think* within language ... so this, me thinks, is not merely a limitation of communicating something but also a limitation of what we can truthfully think about. 

Clearly if we meditation without even using any language ... without using any signage whatsoever ... we will get into things that, not only cannot be communicated to someone else, but that we ourselves cannot even honestly think about unless we are there in that now of the meditation.  Yet we do, and what is even more dishonest is that we use it to make an "i'm better than you" transaction to the other party.  Shove your intentionally dishonest "" up your ass.
np - put a questionmark after IT? - How would you notice with your own head similarly situated ? Your shit-assed attitude that because YOU can't - nobody else can either should be shoved up there too.  
Nevertheless, the limits of language, but the possility of Art & the Event was what spawned http://fastblogit.com/tags/songs - anyway songs.
try a little less blame of others & comprehend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE2muDZksP4 - Amadeus Lacrymosa

Seth says
MR 2013-07-19 08:04:41 16652
seth 2013-07-19 07:52:15 16652
... i just had a new thought.  Science will probably eventually be able to explain the "how" or what happens and even perhaps the "why" ... but strangely enough the essence behind the miracle, for which we have no interrogative pronoun to refer to, can never be explained by the methods of science.   I bolded the new part.   In other words, we cannot yet adequately express the salient question in our language.   You have refereed to something similar when you said something like "it is a miracle that anything exists at all".   Sometimes we presume that the  language we think within can truthfully express some things that we want to think about ... but that is a really big presumption.   Let me ask you a question ... imagine that an ant has a kind of language ... could it thruthfully think about how you talked to Tina this morning?   Can a fly on a turd know the truth of the shitter?

There is, of course, this meme that goes something like: "you are unlimited, you can do and think  anything".   It is usually used in a smug way to imply the speaker is  more evolved than their audience.  Me i say that it is horse shit.  There are things for which even the very  language we must needs think within are not capable of thinking truthfully about.  That *is* a limitation for which we can evolve out of,  but not one for which we can honestly just imagine our way out of. 
bolded part needs rephrasing -  IT works almost anywhere. Just do a PR contemplation intensive & ponder "Who Am I?" & then try using language to communicate whatever answer shows up to another. Doing so is the beginning of comprehending the limits of language.  Consciousness does not suffer from such limits except perhaps in certain individuals.
<- smug on purpose!

Well "it" is not even a interrogative pronoun ... it asks no question.  "Who" is the worst of them ... when asking your favorite metaphysical question, it is useless.  At least we appear to agree about the "limitations of communicating in language" ... but we *think* within language ... so this, me thinks, is not merely a limitation of communicating something but also a limitation of what we can truthfully think about. 

Clearly if we meditation without even using any language ... without using any signage whatsoever ... we will get into things that, not only cannot be communicated to someone else, but that we ourselves cannot even honestly think about unless we are there in that now of the meditation.  Yet we do, and what is even more dishonest is that we use it to make an "i'm better than you" transaction to the other party.  Shove your intentionally dishonest "" up your ass.

Seth says
MR 2013-07-19 10:22:37 16652
seth 2013-07-19 10:15:11 16652
source: mark above
np - put a questionmark after IT?
... perhaps ... but what is the question even using the word "it"?  me i have no idea what  referential question you are talking about. 

And, yes, it is my opinion that it is not just me ... it is our very language in which people presume that they can think about these kind of things using, notwistanding that they claim that they do.

And, totally yes , art, music and drama, gets us closer.
You missed where I said in effect language is limited, consciousness is not!  If I gave you a proven (to myself) set of instructions & an exact model for how to apply them & it got you to the alleged consciousness I wouldn't even need language to describe that consciousness. Talking shit, or talking about shit is not the exact same thing as being shit!!!!!!
IT?  - is as good as whatever you were looking for, for!

well "IT?" is no better than "" ... for me it asks no question that can be answered.

thanks for the lesson of the relationship between language and being ... do i need to submit to you once again my diagram to prove that i have learned my lesson? 

incidentally i also said words to the effect "language is limited, consciousness is not" ... it appears we are in violent agreement there. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-07-19 10:15:11 16652
source: mark above
np - put a questionmark after IT?
... perhaps ... but what is the question even using the word "it"?  me i have no idea what  referential question you are talking about. 

And, yes, it is my opinion that it is not just me ... it is our very language in which people presume that they can think about these kind of things using, notwistanding that they claim that they do.

And, totally yes , art, music and drama, gets us closer.
You missed where I said in effect language is limited, consciousness is not!  If I gave you a proven (to myself) set of instructions & an exact model for how to apply them & it got you to the alleged consciousness I wouldn't even need language to describe that consciousness. Talking shit, or talking about shit is not the exact same thing as being shit!!!!!!
IT?  - is as good as whatever you were looking for, for!


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