Love

 

heart
I love you first
for what is the same as me,
then i love you better
for what is different.

Bozo Faust

Tags

  1. love
  2. anti racism
  3. item 6799
  4. otherness
  5. bozo sayings
  6. differences
  7. sameness
  8. item 16679
  9. love of otherness
  10. tolerance

Comments


Seth says
M 2013-08-05 06:30:36 16679
I don't think the words love & better belong together in the same sentence. Similarly better & truth don't either; notwithstanding I just used them that way.


in this case you could substitute "again" for better if that word offends thee.

First i love you
for what is same.
Then i love you again
for for what is different.


... It's not complicated.



Seth says
M 2013-08-05 09:41:32 16679
Hmmm... almost argues for racism if you ignore my 714 definition of such.  Notice race & focus on the difference.


yes it does ignore 714.  quite intentionally.  that is because 714 is not the way to get rid of racism.  rather it is just an excuse to fuel the fires of it. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-08-05 10:18:28 16679
M 2013-08-05 09:41:32 16679
Hmmm... almost argues for racism if you ignore my 714 definition of such.  Notice race & focus on the difference.


yes it does ignore 714.  quite intentionally.  that is because 714 is not the way to get rid of racism.  rather it is just an excuse to fuel the fires of it. 
In your racist opinion!


Mark de LA says
Actually it is worse than racism it is a damned LIE! How is focusing on being humans & not pandering to racist behavior going to increase racism? 714 is no such excuse except you violate the first statements in the principle.


Mark de LA says
seth 2013-08-07 17:35:49 16679
M 2013-08-05 11:13:55 16679
Actually it is worse than racism it is a damned LIE! How is focusing on being humans & not pandering to racist behavior going to increase racism? 714 is no such excuse except you violate the first statements in the principle.



Well focusing on being human and the humanity of others is, of course, a really good thing .

A racist will not respect the differences of others.    The differences each of us have is among the most important aspects of our unique beings ... not something to disregard and ignore. Love your neighbor, even for that which you are not.  Or if you don't know how to love him for his differences, at least don't hate him for them. 

According to 714, people should be blind to these differences ... not ever mention them ... nor for that matter even recognize that somebody is behaving according to their racial habits.  That  goes in exactly the wrong direction. 

Look at your edict for what it does in and of itself ... how you have used it ... how other conservative have used it.   It has become an excuse to talk disrespectfully about another race, and then when they say, "hey you are being racist", scream that it is *they* who are playing the race card because they made a race distinction. 

Respect and love other's differences ... or if you can't love them at least tolerate them.  That is the direction that gets us out of racism. 
Yeah, we're probably never going to agree on this one.  It is too simple for you. Jesus also said love thy enemy. Lots of luck with that (go for the terrorists first, eh?). It will probably take a few incarnations to get that one.   I bolded the part that isn't true.  It is all about focus (not ignorance). As long as your focus is on what is different you miss the greater part that we all share which is the same - i.e. being humans. But what keeps your focus elsewhere is that your side wants to pull out the race card, advantage, maybe even reparations for the past. I notice you don't particularly like the possibility of having the race card played against you. How does that feel? But it is valid as I've done it. You have a vested interest so that the race card is one way for you - same about the n-word etc. Jesus also covered the duality thingy. I serve the cause of being human.  Christ came for ALL humanity, but Jesus was born a Jew.  Celebrate different cultures all you want.  I will also. Not from difference, but from beauty, uniqueness & what each contribute to variety in humanity - like the different flowers, birds, animals etc.  But when it comes to solving problems - I will focus on humanness. Liberals prefer to see only an amalgam of identity groups for political reasons; dividing & conquering & pandering. I prefer to see principles that all humans like & want such as freedom, family & felicity.
, anyway

Seth says
M 2013-08-05 11:13:55 16679
Actually it is worse than racism it is a damned LIE! How is focusing on being humans & not pandering to racist behavior going to increase racism? 714 is no such excuse except you violate the first statements in the principle.



Well focusing on being human and the humanity of others is, of course, a really good thing .

A racist will not respect the differences of others.    The differences each of us have is among the most important aspects of our unique beings ... not something to disregard and ignore. Love your neighbor, even for that which you are not.  Or if you don't know how to love him for his differences, at least don't hate him for them. 

According to 714, people should be blind to these differences ... not ever mention them ... nor for that matter even recognize that somebody is behaving according to their racial habits.  That  goes in exactly the wrong direction. 

Look at your edict for what it does in and of itself ... how you have used it ... how other conservative have used it.   It has become an excuse to talk disrespectfully about another race, and then when they say, "hey you are being racist", scream that it is *they* who are playing the race card because they made a race distinction. 

Respect and love other's differences ... or if you can't love them at least tolerate them.  That is the direction that gets us out of racism. 

Mark de LA says
This is what White House racism leads to (forced integration next?)

No celebration here! You WILL love your neighbor.
In a move some claim is tantamount to social engineering, the Department of Housing and Urban Development is imposing a new rule that would allow the feds to track diversity in America’s neighborhoods and then push policies to change those it deems discriminatory
... it deems? ... how about some lawsuits
BTW, I am wondering how long it takes until someone is offended by the term White House & passes a law that says it must be painted with all the colors of the rainbow.


Mark de LA says
I think we need a Congressional Brown Caucus, Yellow Caucus & maybe Red Caucus (not to be confused with the communist caucus).


Seth says
this is one of those items where not playing rwg is vital ... i am finding it very difficult to get to the salient edges of your argument because i am not hearing you because you continualy talk down to me about it, nor are you hearing my salient arguments.  perhaps we could suspend that behavior here and see if we can actually move our minds into an area of new possibilities.

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-08-09 09:42:39 16679
thing is we are both right.  there are lots of ways to love our neighbors even the ones who are quite different than us.  

we can and should focus on those things which are common to us ... those are the things we naturally undersand because they are a part of us too.   I think i said that in the very first two lines of my poem.  They are very important.

First i love you, for what is the same as me ...,

But to get rid of racism that is not quite enough.  There are other, almost biological urges, of congregation with the same that take over and cloud our reactions.  Now here we might need to do a bit or research, which i will defer for now, but there are many cog-sci stuies which probe that humans and other animals will ten to like that which is the same as themselves and reject that which is different.  If you doubt that human urge, i will go get you some articles, i know they are out there because i read them.   I think that urge is the biological foundation of racism.   But we can nuteralize it ... we neutralize it by a deep love and respect for otherness.  I know that is a was of talking that is peculair to me ... i err, made it up ... but perhaps you can suspend your dislike of my otherness long enought to understand it on its own merits.

... then i love you again for what is different.
      Same argument except now you seem to be blaming racism on biology. If you do then you might have to accept that some racial characteristics are more adaptive than others to the survival of homo sapiens.  Think about the Chinese & Indians - lots of them. Think of the native conditions in Africa vs the same genetics in the USA & the cultural evolution resulting.  Think of Native American Indians.  That thought is usually un-PC & called racist by yours side. 
     What's your sign, dude?
     I have a deep love & respect for truth, beauty & goodness which any human being can be a host to. Just because something is different is no cause to worship it's otherness. StarTrek's Prime directive seems to say leave otherness alone. Racism is a RWG at a higher level than humans - possibly angelic. Anyway it is being hierarchically including many humans. Racism is not likely to be go away until the racial distinction gives way to equally diverse human characteristics than we have today & racial characteristics are moot.
-

Mark de LA says
seth 2013-08-09 09:29:40 16679
this is one of those items where not playing rwg is vital ... i am finding it very difficult to get to the salient edges of your argument because i am not hearing you because you continualy talk down to me about it, nor are you hearing my salient arguments.  perhaps we could suspend that behavior here and see if we can actually move our minds into an area of new possibilities.
Silly! Nice example of the RWG hard-wired brain function. You must have felt one-down to write that.


Seth says
thing is we are both right.  there are lots of ways to love our neighbors even the ones who are quite different than us.  

we can and should focus on those things which are common to us ... those are the things we naturally undersand because they are a part of us too.   I think i said that in the very first two lines of my poem.  They are very important.

First i love you, for what is the same as me ...,

But to get rid of racism that is not quite enough.  There are other, almost biological urges, of congregation with the same that take over and cloud our reactions.  Now here we might need to do a bit or research, which i will defer for now, but there are many cog-sci stuies which probe that humans and other animals will ten to like that which is the same as themselves and reject that which is different.  If you doubt that human urge, i will go get you some articles, i know they are out there because i read them.   I think that urge is the biological foundation of racism.   But we can nuteralize it ... we neutralize it by a deep love and respect for otherness.  I know that is a was of talking that is peculair to me ... i err, made it up ... but perhaps you can suspend your dislike of my otherness long enought to understand it on its own merits.

... then i love you again for what is different.

Seth says
M 2013-08-09 08:34:04 16679
People can appreciate the beautiful, unique & positive of other humans without classifying them by race.  Otherwise it is as silly as classifying people by their birth signs - Scorpio!


well yes certainly that is true.

but racism is not just a mere linguistic classification thingy.   it is a rejection of a person because they are different ... they are not of our clan ... they look and feel and act differently.  those diffeences are not mere classification fallacies, they are real perceptions.

denise has this hair ... quite different than my fine hair ... and perhaps even of your wife's.  it is soo soft.  amazingly soft.  i love to stick my face in it.   am i being racist when i love her hair.  do i want to have her hair instead of my own.   no and no.  me thinks that is the kind of love of otherness which gets us out of racism ... yet it has absolutely nothing to do with ignoring the distinctions between us.

Si says
Sounds good to me. That often seems to be the process.   

Seth says
quoted here

Seth says

shared in comment on facebook in contrast to this meme here.

Seth says
Seth 2016-05-16 12:25:25 [item 16679#52082]
pondering http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2016/05/16/love-tolerance-but-love-tolerance-subsidiarity-love/ re simon’s post on facebook.

my first take, prior to reading the article, is that the author is pissing on tolerance as a politically “liberal”, rather than seeing it on a spectrum one ends of which is love,  the other total rejection.  but i don’t know before i read the article.
after a cursory read of the piece, this is my response …

well there is no such thing as "liberal tolerance" ... that is just a political propaganda term ... nothing more and nothing less. there is however a spectrum of human behavior which on the one end is outright rejection and hostility towards otherness ... and on the other end of the spectrum is loving something that is different in its own right.

seth


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