Two different directions out of racism

About: Facebook dialogue

When a baby is growing a new cell differentiates itself from it's neighbors and becomes, for example, a brain cell instead of a heart cell. So is the new cell being violent? I think not. The being is growing and differentiation is a requirement of growth and change. There is something missing in Krishnamurti's thesis here.
source: Seth Russell Well Keith, thanks for putting you finger on that and bringing us to what i think is the real issue before us. Can we love unity and diversity at the same time? I actually think we can. But we cannot do it with a binary mind ... not with the human notion that there are only two alternatives ... not with an insistence that "we cannot have it both ways" .... no, we need to do it and not do it at the same time ... apply a third phase of logic as it were.

I am a big fan of the Leviathan ... as in mankind growing into a being who becomes globally conscious. I see the Internet and us as the cells of of its brain. I find it strange that many others cannot see and even feel that. So as that rears its ugly head we each adopt a relation to it ... we feel a part of it/ or not ... we contribute to it / or not ... so we maintain our individual freedom ... and we do that by respecting otherness ... not just by glorifying unity. This thingey is far bigger than our petty notions of it.


I think Keith and I are in agreement on this issue.   He has put his finger on the particular reason why respect for diversity and otherness is the way out of racism and other social contradictions:  "the more people accept differences, the better communication you can actually have".  

Tags

  1. anti racism
  2. item 714
  3. anti item 714
  4. otherness

Comments


Seth says
seth 2013-08-22 12:36:30 16705
ME 2013-08-22 11:47:34 16705
It is easy to respect otherness until otherness disagrees that you have the right to yours & has power over yours.


well i didn't say it was easy .

I am responsible for my actions and feelings ... not those of another.  For me that is kind of the beauty of the thing.  When you disagree with me, when you *try* to wield power over me, that is not really something that is my job to change.   I must let you be you.   Anything else just becomes vicious RWG.
Yep my pacifist test should work on that.  Meanwhile ponder this joke:
M: 2006-07-18 14:35:26

Two terrorists are chatting. One of them has his wallet out and is flipping through pictures.
"Yeah, this is my oldest. He's a martyr."
"Here's my second son. He's a martyr, too." There's a pause...
The second terrorist says, wistfully...
"Ah, they blow up so fast, don't they?"


Seth says
ME 2013-08-22 11:39:57 16705
seth 2013-08-22 11:35:17 16705
ME 2013-08-22 11:12:59 16705
seth 2013-08-22 11:01:10 16705
ME 2013-08-22 10:41:51 16705
Yeah, I quit posting to that dialogue - agreeing sessions being what they are - & neolibs & neocons (n-words) being tossed about.
Diversity for diversity sake ? nah?  Diversity that promotes truth, beauty, goodness & humankind is more my stand.
 
Otherwise, my rottweiler bitch Shadow says that you might as well save all the piles of shit along our walk because I (Shadow)  can say from experience they all are different & worthy of sniffing; piss too!

it is super kewl that your bitch has great respect for the signs of the beings in her world ... thanks for sharing.

I can find no contradiction between "love of diversity and respect for otherness" and "truth, beauty, goodness & humankind".  Can you articulate any contradiction that you have found?
None except that diversity for diversity sake is not it!

I still don't get your objection.  "Diversity for diversity sake" would be like "gravity for gravity's sake" ... doesn't make any sense to me.  Diversity refers to what we get when things grow and spread out and find their niche.   It is a universal force of nature almost like entropy ... not something that i would take an attitude "for" or against.
You missed Shadow's salient comment then.


Well i think i will just let Shadow be Shadow and leave her to excellent perceptions ... not my job to preserve them. 

Seth says
ME 2013-08-22 11:26:33 16705
Then too, otherness ( for me anyway ) includes intolerant Islamic terrorists. So you must have by now found a way to accept & respect terrorism, eh?


Of course, self preservation almost always trumps respect for otherness.  But self preservation does not necessitate eliminating respect and understanding of your enemy.  There is a lot of Christian support for that.  You are aware of those teachings, i wont boor you with repeating them.  The whole point is to break out of the i'm-right/your-wrong, win-loose, predicament.  As Keith said: "the more people accept differences, the better communication you can actually have".  But presuming that the only important things about the other are those things that are the same as you, becomes just an excuse to let differences become an irritation. 

Seth says
ME 2013-08-22 11:47:34 16705
It is easy to respect otherness until otherness disagrees that you have the right to yours & has power over yours.


well i didn't say it was easy .

I am responsible for my actions and feelings ... not those of another.  For me that is kind of the beauty of the thing.  When you disagree with me, when you *try* to wield power over me, that is not really something that is my job to change.   I must let you be you.   Anything else just becomes vicious RWG.

Seth says
seth 2013-08-22 14:19:18 16705
ME 2013-08-22 13:30:27 16705
seth 2013-08-22 12:19:57 16705
ME 2013-08-22 11:26:33 16705
Then too, otherness ( for me anyway ) includes intolerant Islamic terrorists. So you must have by now found a way to accept & respect terrorism, eh?


Of course, self preservation almost always trumps respect for otherness.  But self preservation does not necessitate eliminating respect and understanding of your enemy.  There is a lot of Christian support for that.  You are aware of those teachings, i wont boor you with repeating them.  The whole point is to break out of the i'm-right/your-wrong, win-loose, predicament.  As Keith said: "the more people accept differences, the better communication you can actually have".  But presuming that the only important things about the other are those things that are the same as you, becomes just an excuse to let differences become an irritation. 
The more people follow the Golden Rule the better things become - got it! Been saying that since 941 & even before that.


yep, got it, .  

in fact, i think a case could be made that the golden rule is a kind of corollary of respect for otherness ... err, as i said ...
in the  facebook dialogue
the diverse differentiated parts should not fight each other, should respect each other, should do onto the other as they would have the other do unto them. Doing otherwise is just stupid.



Otherness is just a by product  of human beings having an Ego. Not a biggie. The Golden Rule is a nice way to prescribe how Egos act in the presence of other Egos. Otherness is not a religion for me. Should is normally something like a guilt trip.


Seth says
ME 2013-08-22 13:30:27 16705
seth 2013-08-22 12:19:57 16705
ME 2013-08-22 11:26:33 16705
Then too, otherness ( for me anyway ) includes intolerant Islamic terrorists. So you must have by now found a way to accept & respect terrorism, eh?


Of course, self preservation almost always trumps respect for otherness.  But self preservation does not necessitate eliminating respect and understanding of your enemy.  There is a lot of Christian support for that.  You are aware of those teachings, i wont boor you with repeating them.  The whole point is to break out of the i'm-right/your-wrong, win-loose, predicament.  As Keith said: "the more people accept differences, the better communication you can actually have".  But presuming that the only important things about the other are those things that are the same as you, becomes just an excuse to let differences become an irritation. 
The more people follow the Golden Rule the better things become - got it! Been saying that since 941 & even before that.


yep, got it, .  

in fact, i think a case could be made that the golden rule is a kind of corollary of respect for otherness ... err, as i said ...
in the  facebook dialogue
the diverse differentiated parts should not fight each other, should respect each other, should do onto the other as they would have the other do unto them. Doing otherwise is just stupid.




Seth says
ME 2013-08-22 13:43:41 16705
seth 2013-08-22 12:36:30 16705
ME 2013-08-22 11:47:34 16705
It is easy to respect otherness until otherness disagrees that you have the right to yours & has power over yours.


well i didn't say it was easy .

I am responsible for my actions and feelings ... not those of another.  For me that is kind of the beauty of the thing.  When you disagree with me, when you *try* to wield power over me, that is not really something that is my job to change.   I must let you be you.   Anything else just becomes vicious RWG.
You have no other choice except to "let" me be me. I will be who I am. The discussion is dissolving into pellick.


Well yes the expression is a bit circular ... it is just a pointer to a feeling that does not translate well into words.  The opposite of "let you be you" is to insist that you change. 

A personal example might get us closer.  You continually insist that we *must* play this RWG.  I think you know how i feel about that.  I don't think we *must* play this RWG.  Now, I could take it on as my agenda, "my job", to change that in you ... to change your assumptions about our lives which mandates our behavior.  But, no ... i will let you be you in all the glory and Zen of our RWG
 .

Seth says
source: mark above
Otherness is just a by product  of human beings having an Ego. Not a biggie. The Golden Rule is a nice way to prescribe how Egos act in the presence of other Egos. Otherness is not a religion for me. Should is normally something like a guilt trip.


[listen to this song before you read] Well the "otherness" i am talking about is created because each of us is isolated behind our own senses.  Like you always are saying, i cannot read your mind, i do not see what you see, do not think what you think, do not remember what you remember ... i cannot feel what you feel ... and most importantly i do not move you.   Nor you mine.  I think everybody learns to cope with that isolation in their own way.  Doubtlessly to many it is just accepted as not even problematic ... to some, perhaps, their own ego shines so bright as not to even seriously contemplate another's.  Me i went thorough some insanity back in the warehouse years and before and some of that craziness  was related to this realization.  i ended up in a nut house, several times.  It was when i found a respect for people's sacred sovereign otherness that i began to play my way out of that insanity.  So i think you might understand why "otherness" holds a special place in my heart. 

The flip side of that is that with sensitive listening empathy and good will we can, to an extent,  think outside of ourselves  ... not so isolated but among the people and things and relationships within which we are living.   If you can grock how i respect your otherness as my doing the golden rule itslef ... then you will be closer to feeling it like i do.  Is it a biggie for me? ... you bet your ass.

Seth says
seth 2013-08-22 22:08:48 16705
source: mark above
Otherness is just a by product  of human beings having an Ego. Not a biggie. The Golden Rule is a nice way to prescribe how Egos act in the presence of other Egos. Otherness is not a religion for me. Should is normally something like a guilt trip.


[listen to this song before you read] Well the "otherness" i am talking about is created because each of us is isolated behind our own senses.  Like you always are saying, i cannot read your mind, i do not see what you see, do not think what you think, do not remember what you remember ... i cannot feel what you feel ... and most importantly i do not move you.   Nor you mine.  I think everybody learns to cope with that isolation in their own way.  Doubtlessly to many it is just accepted as not even problematic ... to some, perhaps, their own ego shines so bright as not to even seriously contemplate another's.  Me i went thorough some insanity back in the warehouse years and before and some of that craziness  was related to this realization.  i ended up in a nut house, several times.  It was when i found a respect for people's sacred sovereign otherness that i began to play my way out of that insanity.  So i think you might understand why "otherness" holds a special place in my heart. 

The flip side of that is that with sensitive listening empathy and good will we can, to an extent,  think outside of ourselves  ... not so isolated but among the people and things and relationships within which we are living.   If you can grock how i respect your otherness as my doing the golden rule itslef ... then you will be closer to feeling it like i do.  Is it a biggie for me? ... you bet your ass.
Thanks for the candid exposure of yourself to the world outside. You might have left out the word sweet before the word ass in your last clause.

I don't get associating the song about lonliness or strangeness to others with what you necessarily may have discovered about your reaction to other people nor why you took it in that direction. I had two seminar experiences - the first was the contemplation intensive which had us ponder the following (in sequence): Who am I? What is Life? What is Another? ... the latter I map onto your strangeness.  The second the LEC Forum "Sunday Process" a thought experiment or trance in which the leader had us imagine en masse of ~ 500 people imagine we were alone in the world of unfriendly people until it got ugly & painful & we felt alienated & cried in panic until we finally ended up laughing when we grokked that everyone else was also in the same predicament. The World is filled with people who feel unique in shouldering such a burden. Peter responded to a question about zen & enlightenment with a surprise desire to return home - the desire to be at home wherever. That's basic Ego & Self stuff without the Anthroposophy. A being created with a core that recognizes its separetness or the flip side of the coin of noticing one's self will out of necessity have such a feeling. Ontologically, restricting the Universe (or Cosmos) to just what you run into with the basic five senses can make the experience more intense. I have yet to do that. Too many acid trips I guess ?


Seth says
ME 2013-08-23 06:39:47 16705
seth 2013-08-22 22:08:48 16705
source: mark above
Otherness is just a by product  of human beings having an Ego. Not a biggie. The Golden Rule is a nice way to prescribe how Egos act in the presence of other Egos. Otherness is not a religion for me. Should is normally something like a guilt trip.


[listen to this song before you read] Well the "otherness" i am talking about is created because each of us is isolated behind our own senses.  Like you always are saying, i cannot read your mind, i do not see what you see, do not think what you think, do not remember what you remember ... i cannot feel what you feel ... and most importantly i do not move you.   Nor you mine.  I think everybody learns to cope with that isolation in their own way.  Doubtlessly to many it is just accepted as not even problematic ... to some, perhaps, their own ego shines so bright as not to even seriously contemplate another's.  Me i went thorough some insanity back in the warehouse years and before and some of that craziness  was related to this realization.  i ended up in a nut house, several times.  It was when i found a respect for people's sacred sovereign otherness that i began to play my way out of that insanity.  So i think you might understand why "otherness" holds a special place in my heart. 

The flip side of that is that with sensitive listening empathy and good will we can, to an extent,  think outside of ourselves  ... not so isolated but among the people and things and relationships within which we are living.   If you can grock how i respect your otherness as my doing the golden rule itslef ... then you will be closer to feeling it like i do.  Is it a biggie for me? ... you bet your ass.
Thanks for the candid exposure of yourself to the world outside. You might have left out the word sweet before the word ass in your last clause.

I don't get associating the song about lonliness or strangeness to others with what you necessarily may have discovered about your reaction to other people nor why you took it in that direction. I had two seminar experiences - the first was the contemplation intensive which had us ponder the following (in sequence): Who am I? What is Life? What is Another? ... the latter I map onto your strangeness.  The second the LEC Forum "Sunday Process" a thought experiment or trance in which the leader had us imagine en masse of ~ 500 people imagine we were alone in the world of unfriendly people until it got ugly & painful & we felt alienated & cried in panic until we finally ended up laughing when we grokked that everyone else was also in the same predicament. The World is filled with people who feel unique in shouldering such a burden. Peter responded to a question about zen & enlightenment with a surprise desire to return home - the desire to be at home wherever. That's basic Ego & Self stuff without the Anthroposophy. A being created with a core that recognizes its separetness or the flip side of the coin of noticing one's self will out of necessity have such a feeling. Ontologically, restricting the Universe (or Cosmos) to just what you run into with the basic five senses can make the experience more intense. I have yet to do that. Too many acid trips I guess ?


Well we are so very different inside, so peculiar, so unique ... yet we all do share the same predicament and are so very the same.  Both of those sides of the coin are equally true.  And then too, things change, the strange become familiar ... separation shifts into intimacy.  All good stuff.  I don't think it matters how many senses or faculties i use ... the basic situation does not change ... though it can be imagined as gone.

I don't think i am obsessed with the separation or loneliness aspect of otherness anymore.  It is not a problem.  I like it just the way it is.  What i am into now is just the feeling of the relationship of me to that which is definitely not me.  I prefer one of respect, and even surprise and wonder ... rather than rejection and a urge to conquer and see it as just me out there.

this morning in a   ...
source: facebook comment i wrote
[snip] ... why would we want to give up or identity ? i love it that i am specific, particular, and to you peculiar. I would love to get to know you, just because you are foreign and different. I want my plumber to know pluming really well ... and i not. That we are not interchangeable is part of the splendor of the universe, at least for me

Oh sure generalities and abstractions are a fine human lever we can use against the vast chaos with which the universe confronts us ... but i will opt instead from something rare at every turn.

...

Seth says
source: Cisca de Bloois on Facebook here
Here are some of my further thoughts and ponders inside this discussion It seems to me that it is obvious that we all love variety and that definitely 'variety is the spice of life!' The wonder of being human is that we are not born in the way of a
kidney cell made to do only one job in life which is doing what a kidney cell is doing in its singularity. We find ourselves on this planet living inside a whole complex and vast collection of parts, such as all kinds of different cells, organs, systems, senses, and added to that we seem to have things such as the ability to think, to move, to feel, we have an instinct about something, emotions, intuition, a soul, a spirit, an aura, a mind, a mentality, a psyche, psychologies, memory, ESP, attitudes, abilities to sing, to play an instrument, to write, cook, take care of things, be friendly, have ideas, learn and change, invent things, make things, dance, make jokes, act all kind of roles, take pictures, make paintings, be romantic, manage our lives in the most complex situations, refine ourselves, develop qualities, have ponders and questions about the universe and about what created this all... the list is endless. And the most precious gifts of all: consciousness (which we are allowed to cause to grow whilst we live) and free choice. And inside that we are all uniquely formed up and like Seth wrote, not interchangeable! All this comes before we identify ourselves with our nationality, or a particular religion. It seems to me that by identifying ourselves with a nationality or religion we actually give up part of our uniqueness, because in that we often start to be governed by a group entity, and we start to think and feel like that group entity such as being an American, or a christian, or a Muslim, or whatever else that is currently available in the world, often without even being conscious about it. And if this identity grows strong and our ego starts to come on the stage and it gets on top of that power from a group identity, than it can in the worse case cause wars. So carrying the flavour of the land you grew up in, or the religion of the family you happened to be born in, is indeed adding to the variety of life, but to me it seems to be only a very small part of what we are made up of.
... I think de Bloois has provide a  most eloquent descriptions of Krishnamurti's thought here. 

Here is my response ...
source: seth on facebook here

Well
Cisca de Bloois, you certainly have given us more insight into what Krishnamurti must have been saying. Especially when you say ... "It seems to me that by identifying ourselves with a nationality or religion we actually give up part of our uniqu
eness, because in that we often start to be governed by a group entity, and we start to think and feel like that group entity such as being an American, or a christian, or a Muslim, or whatever else that is currently available in the world, often without even being conscious about it. And if this identity grows strong and our ego starts to come on the stage and it gets on top of that power from a group identity, than it can in the worse case cause wars. So carrying the flavour of the land you grew up in, or the religion of the family you happened to be born in, is indeed adding to the variety of life, but to me it seems to be only a very small part of what we are made up of." ... which certainly is true

Personally i don't "obtain" my identity from any group ... not my white race, not my christian occult upbringing, not my american country, nor a political party. i like to cook here in renton washington, and i have lost all my teeth, so now i am the #toothlessfoodie But those large, almost abstract, groups do exist, and people form relationships within them to their selfs ... they identify with them strongly or weekly just as is their wont. i don't think that goes away. The problem, as i see it, is where the groups fight each other ... to be in one group is right, the other one is wrong ... to be in one group means that you must think like that group and cannot appreciate the other way of thinking. That, to me, is the violence.
... and to summarize:

i don't think the differences alone give rise to violence. it is the differences *AND* a lack of respect for the other which gives rise to violence. I am different than a tree, yet i love trees. I am different than a spider, i don't like spiders, so i squash them. This is ridiculously simple.


Seth says
source: ...
You say "not so quite the opposite" (almost angrily) yet you don't tell me how the "contemplation intensive" was different than how i characterized it.
... Yep, I am contradicting your conclusion since I was there & YOU were not!
Duality is about 2 things considered opposite & the 12 points of the zodiac is about 12 things . Read RS here: http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA151/English/RSP1961/HuCoTh_index.html . He does present them as polar opposites like the Ideal to Real as to cuts of the circle in half; likewise the material to the spiritual (cut perpendicular to eachother) providing 4 quadrants. Then each quadrant is a spectrum from say ideal to material for Aries ... Taurus ... Gemini to ... Cancer Mathematics ... Material - but so what?  There are also 7 planetary moods for each of them.
[see: item 3153] for further explanation.
What Peter described is not the self-ego concept but the waking up to the world outside at the animal level so to speak. In the womb all is peace & provided.  At some point the baby outside the womb gets a response to being alone & cries & mother provides. Mother is not yet "mother" at that point but an somethning "other" than the baby itself which fulfills a need.  No language yet. Crying just produces other with a tit to suck food out of.  Or make us feel better. No logic involved.


Seth says
ME 2013-08-24 11:29:00 16705
seth 2013-08-24 11:15:27 16705
ME 2013-08-24 10:21:03 16705
Nice! Fairly vanilla.
Seth (above): ... I prefer one of respect, and even surprise and wonder ... rather than rejection and a urge to conquer and see it as just me out there.
...
your binary alternative is not what I support either ... might there be a whole zodiac of different points of view &/or relationships.


Well sure, intellectually this is "vanilla" and should not be controversial at all ... it is almost just common knowledge.  I can remember the first time it entered my mind.  I was hitchhiking home from Auto Drug back to Walgrove and a beatnik type picked me up who was going to the Gas House on Venice beach which is where we ended up.  He was talking of what the whole beatnik Kerouac scene was all about and Buddhisms and respect for other's people's shoes.  Not something that we got a whole lot of exposure to when we were kids.  Not really something that Anthroposophy talkes much about either.  The presumption there is that the Spiritiual World can be shared by all just the same ... i think you hinted at this when you talked about transcending  5 senses boundaries.  Me, i think otherness is just quite the same in the Spiritual World as it is in our customary world. 

I think your "contemplation intensive" enlightened the separation aspect of otherness transitioning to the flip side.  I do want to highlight that is just one *aspect* or otherness to me ... perhaps  a negative one.  Me, i am more into the positive aspects of it.

I wonder which duality of the 12 points of the zodiac this otherness/sameness is.  Do you know?
Not so! almost the exact opposite.  Anyway you seem to be proceeding along your usual assumptions quite nicely. Duality & 12 points is oxymoronic.  Otherness is mostly your word to describe the whatever.  The Tao is black and not black (white) in one symbol. Got anything different from that? Peter described the birth & infant years from "other (mommy) is for me (gives me affection & milk) ... to "other is not for me" i.e. spanks me or ignores my crying. Such gets more complex as we grow up!


You say "not so quite the opposite" (almost angrily) yet you don't tell me how the "contemplation intensive" was different than how i characterized it.  then you insist the 12 points is oxymoronic, but you had introduce it yourself ... i actually likeed that part of your response ... otherness/smeness (err inside/outside) is, as you say, just one duality of many.  I was thinking that you could put that into the Zodiac ... you know that stuff a lot better than I. 

I think when we are babies we have not learned to separate what is us from what is not us ... it must all just blend in together.  The separation grows when we learn to "have" an ego.   Me, i'm not so very sure i learned it the way i was suppose to .

Seth says
ME 2013-08-25 12:21:49 16705
seth 2013-08-25 11:44:46 16705
seth 2013-08-25 11:36:33 16705
me thinks you indented to point to an item other than 3153.
it must have been 3163 ... there is a whole zodiac room devoted to this here.
This coment is out of place & has nothing to do with the topic or the last comment.

not at all, it corrected the link you gave to  your zodiac. 

I think that your idea that we look at the racism not only from the point of view of inside_a_group/outside_a_group but also from every other point of view in the Zodiac was an excellent one.  I have just been trying to flesh that out a bit. 

in other words ...
source: mark above
your binary alternative is not what I support either ... might there be a whole zodiac of different points of view &/or relationships.
I totally agree.  Let's look at those!



Seth says
seth 2013-08-25 13:43:56 16705
ME 2013-08-25 12:21:49 16705
seth 2013-08-25 11:44:46 16705
seth 2013-08-25 11:36:33 16705
me thinks you indented to point to an item other than 3153.
it must have been 3163 ... there is a whole zodiac room devoted to this here.
This coment is out of place & has nothing to do with the topic or the last comment.

not at all, it corrected the link you gave to  your zodiac. 

I think that your idea that we look at the racism not only from the point of view of inside_a_group/outside_a_group but also from every other point of view in the Zodiac was an excellent one.  I have just been trying to flesh that out a bit. 

in other words ...
source: mark above
your binary alternative is not what I support either ... might there be a whole zodiac of different points of view &/or relationships.
I totally agree.  Let's look at those!


word salad.

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  34. Thought Racism with 1 viewings related by tag "item 714".
  35. Thought Ever wanted ... with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  36. Thought I am other than you with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  37. Thought Ego vs Otherness with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  38. Thought pic says a hundred words with 0 viewings related by tag "item 714".
  39. Thought about: in the groups owned by mark with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  40. Thought Successful interaction is all about timing ... with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  41. Thought Evan Thomas Video - Obama is sort of a god with 0 viewings related by tag "item 714".
  42. Thought about: Choices with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  43. Thought Dilemma #? of Bozo with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  44. Thought My Reality with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  45. Thought An interesting snipped of dialogue that i wish to remember ... with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  46. Thought Feeling Value with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  47. Thought Traveling with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  48. Thought Oneness & Otherness with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  49. Thought The Purple Sadness of Our Otherness with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".
  50. Thought Secrecy vs Power vs Freedom with 0 viewings related by tag "otherness".