moment 2 moment
Some thoughts I canned last night 
NOW IS NOT an infinitesimally small dot of time; but a moment of life bounded or segmented subjectively from other moments by the relationship of all the elements of that moment together with each other forming something integral .
When you say "I" to something what is that referring to? (aka this is the Who Am I question) .
I can look around and just about everything in my internal/external environment which I cognize I have had some experience with. What is wrong with saying I to those things as well? What truly IS, is that much in my world I have interacted with. Because I have cognized & made distinctions about things I am part of them (in the IS sense) & can say I am to them as well within the context I have outlined. Who does not morn the loss of others & one's shit as if it were part of them when tragedies happen? How many things, how much outside your body can you say "I" to ? How much inside ? How much inside your mind? .... etc.
Attention has a flip side & that is interest - I must have some interest in what I grant attention to.otherwise I send my attention somewhere else. Willed attention (meditation, contemplation etc.) is something quite different, though.
When you say "I" to something what is that referring to? (aka this is the Who Am I question) .
I can look around and just about everything in my internal/external environment which I cognize I have had some experience with. What is wrong with saying I to those things as well? What truly IS, is that much in my world I have interacted with. Because I have cognized & made distinctions about things I am part of them (in the IS sense) & can say I am to them as well within the context I have outlined. Who does not morn the loss of others & one's shit as if it were part of them when tragedies happen? How many things, how much outside your body can you say "I" to ? How much inside ? How much inside your mind? .... etc.
Attention has a flip side & that is interest - I must have some interest in what I grant attention to.otherwise I send my attention somewhere else. Willed attention (meditation, contemplation etc.) is something quite different, though.
Tags
- who am i
- writing as meditation
- the elephant
Comments
Mark de LA says
I need an ego to track my thoughts otherwise I am in all thoughts & have no thread to follow - no way to have a memory of anything .. or choose who to chase or not , converse with or interact with ; who being another thought or being .
Mark de LA says
I AM TALKING about a conversational journey through mind-space .
Seth says
mr 2013-09-16 21:14:22 16756
Emotional judgment is a key to a path through mindspace : no ego -> no judge !
The Golden Rule is an interesting corollary of this thought.
Seth says
seth 2013-09-17 08:35:46 16756
. it seems to me that when i interact with something, that interaction (not the thing) becomes part of me ... adds to me .... and the effect of that interaction *on me* becomes part of me. i sense you are saying something more here ... but what?
source: mark
I can look around and just about everything in my internal/external environment which I cognize I have had some experience with. What is wrong with saying I to those things as well? What truly IS, is that much in my world I have interacted with. Because I have cognized & made distinctions about things I am part of them (in the IS sense) & can say I am to them as well within the context I have outlined. Who does not morn the loss of others & one's shit as if it were part of them when tragedies happen? How many things, how much outside your body can you say "I" to ? How much inside ? How much inside your mind? .... etc.
I can look around and just about everything in my internal/external environment which I cognize I have had some experience with. What is wrong with saying I to those things as well? What truly IS, is that much in my world I have interacted with. Because I have cognized & made distinctions about things I am part of them (in the IS sense) & can say I am to them as well within the context I have outlined. Who does not morn the loss of others & one's shit as if it were part of them when tragedies happen? How many things, how much outside your body can you say "I" to ? How much inside ? How much inside your mind? .... etc.
. it seems to me that when i interact with something, that interaction (not the thing) becomes part of me ... adds to me .... and the effect of that interaction *on me* becomes part of me. i sense you are saying something more here ... but what? For some level of "I" I am saying exactly what you are saying. From the experience side of things it is much more dramatic. Don't limit it to the intellectual alone.
Seth says
Seth says
Well i am not so very sure that the idea that there exists an ego-self which can reasonably claim possession of memories is justified by anything except what Gurus have said about the matter.
if I "trow away memory & past and future fantacy" then I would be quite mindless. I suppose i could sit on a hill and watch the world go round ... but what kind of a world would it be if everybody did that.
Which is not to piss on your wallaby ... really mark it is not. i wish i could have that particular thingey with much more intensity than the scarce glimpse of it that i can see.
ME 2013-09-18 10:42:37 16756
seth 2013-09-18 09:44:13 16756
well i don't see that as a requirement here. all you need is memories.
ME 2013-09-18 09:40:49 16756
seth 2013-09-18 09:36:38 16756
source: How do you make your way through mental space without an ego? I'll bet you can't.
I have a slide show that shows me my pictures in various styles. It crops up on my computer if i don't wiggle it for 2 minutes. As each picture flashes i think of the context of that picture and the memories associated with that picture flood back into my mind. that may, in fact, be your contra example.
You have to have an ego to do that.
well i don't see that as a requirement here. all you need is memories.
Whose memories? .... there's the Ego! Start out with NOW & throw away memory & the past & the future of fantasy as it is & you might get a clue. I was purely in the NOW when I groked this wallaby.
Well i am not so very sure that the idea that there exists an ego-self which can reasonably claim possession of memories is justified by anything except what Gurus have said about the matter.
if I "trow away memory & past and future fantacy" then I would be quite mindless. I suppose i could sit on a hill and watch the world go round ... but what kind of a world would it be if everybody did that.
Which is not to piss on your wallaby ... really mark it is not. i wish i could have that particular thingey with much more intensity than the scarce glimpse of it that i can see.
Seth says
seth 2013-09-18 07:52:49 16756
source: mark above
attention has a flip side & that is interest - I must have some interest in what I grant attention to.otherwise I send my attention somewhere else. Willed attention (meditation, contemplation etc.) is something quite different, though.
attention has a flip side & that is interest - I must have some interest in what I grant attention to.otherwise I send my attention somewhere else. Willed attention (meditation, contemplation etc.) is something quite different, though.
... im not so very sure i see attention and interest as flip sides of the same thing. to me, interest is more like the flip side of boredom (see my Life is boring repitition). i'm presuming here that you are looking to ego-self as the prime motivator. so, err, the ego-self must be interested or it looses awareness ... and what it must always be interested in is its own defense and survival. but i think that would be a peculiar make up of some people and not all people ... and not always to the same extent. the "flip side of attention", to me, is nothing at all apprehended ... that which does not show up ... the great un-knowed.
of late, i am using these kind of writings at meditations ... "willed contemplations". of course they must needs are in the meta-world of language. but that doesn't mean that thy cannot be about and have backgrounds and contexts in other domains. they are meditations, because i can go back rereading and rethinking the words grocking and correcting them to hear them still ring true. and then there is the effect that happens here, that with each reread i hear more, and the true ringing gets louder. sometimes i even hope that you hear it ... but, of course, i realize you won't/can't. "Writing as Meditation": i'm sure othes do it too ... but rarely bill it as such.
of late, i am using these kind of writings at meditations ... "willed contemplations". of course they must needs are in the meta-world of language. but that doesn't mean that thy cannot be about and have backgrounds and contexts in other domains. they are meditations, because i can go back rereading and rethinking the words grocking and correcting them to hear them still ring true. and then there is the effect that happens here, that with each reread i hear more, and the true ringing gets louder. sometimes i even hope that you hear it ... but, of course, i realize you won't/can't. "Writing as Meditation": i'm sure othes do it too ... but rarely bill it as such.
I said attention/interest has a flip-side ..... there are more than two. My jism quote is yet another. I was describing a direct experience not easy to crisp up. How do you make your way through mental space without an ego? I'll bet you can't.
Seth says
seth 2013-09-18 09:42:51 16756
and, of course, another might be taking your ques for thought from events and sensual encounters as you navigate your body in your life.
seth 2013-09-18 09:40:37 16756
another might be taking a thinking agenda from outside ... say, for example, others facebook posts.
another might even be the random association of thoughts and signs.
seth 2013-09-18 09:36:38 16756
source: How do you make your way through mental space without an ego? I'll bet you can't.
I have a slide show that shows me my pictures in various styles. It crops up on my computer if i don't wiggle it for 2 minutes. As each picture flashes i think of the context of that picture and the memories associated with that picture flood back into my mind. that may, in fact, be your contra example.
another might be taking a thinking agenda from outside ... say, for example, others facebook posts.
another might even be the random association of thoughts and signs.
and, of course, another might be taking your ques for thought from events and sensual encounters as you navigate your body in your life.
unclear surrounding the word ques .
even as the word quest it makes no sense.
even as the word quest it makes no sense.
Seth says
seth 2013-09-18 09:44:13 16756
well i don't see that as a requirement here. all you need is memories.
ME 2013-09-18 09:40:49 16756
seth 2013-09-18 09:36:38 16756
source: How do you make your way through mental space without an ego? I'll bet you can't.
I have a slide show that shows me my pictures in various styles. It crops up on my computer if i don't wiggle it for 2 minutes. As each picture flashes i think of the context of that picture and the memories associated with that picture flood back into my mind. that may, in fact, be your contra example.
You have to have an ego to do that.
well i don't see that as a requirement here. all you need is memories.
Whose memories? .... there's the Ego! Start out with NOW & throw away memory & the past & the future of fantasy as it is & you might get a clue. I was purely in the NOW when I groked this wallaby.
Seth says
seth 2013-09-18 11:15:56 16756
source: me above
Well i am not so very sure that the idea that there exists an ego-self which can reasonably claim possession of memories is justified by anything except what Gurus have said about the matter.
Well i am not so very sure that the idea that there exists an ego-self which can reasonably claim possession of memories is justified by anything except what Gurus have said about the matter.
Incidentally there is a non-trivial obvious and UN-deniable connection between my memories and my identity ... and that is my brain. blow it up => no memories.
My question is, apart from that "physical body" thingey, any other kind of "possession of memories" is really just up to our imagination. is it not?
My question is, apart from that "physical body" thingey, any other kind of "possession of memories" is really just up to our imagination. is it not?
Mine was a direct experience of a sort needing no gurus & no physiology. You are never sure so you can hang out there for now. Or find NOW & try some things out without a past & future.
Seth says
As are you, dear Bozo. Why comment if you don't want to know what I am talking about? Apparently you have a need to make me wrong to prop up the ego-self, eh>
Seth says
seth 2013-09-18 13:36:47 16756
It came up just because, me thinks, that were we to honestly answer the question "who am i" and ignore it idea that "who i am" is inextricably connected to our brain, we would be avoiding talking about an elephant in the room.
is it not strange that at that point you rotate the conversation into RWG?
ME 2013-09-18 12:46:43 16756
seth 2013-09-18 11:57:12 16756
Nope, me neither ... "not worried" at all about having a brain ... err, in fact, i rather like the predicament. i am not quite sure why that kind of scocial transaction between us crops up here ... but it does seem to happen a lot.
ME 2013-09-18 11:46:26 16756
seth 2013-09-18 11:40:47 16756
yes, i fully am aware that that is how it is done. it is not done with language. it probably does not even involve the language faculties of the brain. that is why it cannot even be communicated in language. but i seriously doubt that it can be done without a brain. that, of course, is the elephant in the room. sorry about that.
ME 2013-09-18 11:25:55 16756
Try out an experience of NOW without resorting to language to capture it
Try out an experience of NOW without resorting to language to capture ityes, i fully am aware that that is how it is done. it is not done with language. it probably does not even involve the language faculties of the brain. that is why it cannot even be communicated in language. but i seriously doubt that it can be done without a brain. that, of course, is the elephant in the room. sorry about that.
I am not worried about having a brain - are you?
Nope, me neither ... "not worried" at all about having a brain ... err, in fact, i rather like the predicament
. i am not quite sure why that kind of scocial transaction between us crops up here ... but it does seem to happen a lot.source: mark continues
Do a Nike & just do it! The chatter telling you all the stuff that makes you resist is just black noise!
Do a Nike & just do it! The chatter telling you all the stuff that makes you resist is just black noise!
... ... why? You seem to presume that would be a thing i should do. To be honest with you, i seriously question whether the whole rush of it wouldn't just be a distraction from my life.
... why? You seem to presume that would be a thing i should do. To be honest with you, i seriously question whether the whole rush of it wouldn't just be a distraction from my life. source: ... but i seriously doubt that it can be done without a brain. that, of course, is the elephant in the room. sorry about that.
... why do you bring it up, then? 
It came up just because, me thinks, that were we to honestly answer the question "who am i" and ignore it idea that "who i am" is inextricably connected to our brain, we would be avoiding talking about an elephant in the room.
is it not strange that at that point you rotate the conversation into RWG?
Wasn't focusing on the Who am I? thingy - just NOW & what it takes to maintain consciousness without an Ego to maintain direction, balance or whatever it takes to keep awake & not carry over the past or fantasize about the future or anything else except NOW. Answer my question as to why you apparently don't want to grok what I am talking about by doing the exercise?
Seth says
I am looking for a truly NEW idea not a warm-over of the past!
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