The Great Sleeve Job
About: rationale of the dirty joke: an analysis of sexual humor: g. legnman: amazon.com: books
Scientists & materialists who believe in a mechanical universe will be forever looking for the source of the soul in the brain or nervous system in the low priced meat computer. Nothing like a soul will ever be found. This is mostly a sleeve job because once you think you get close you have to look for another sleeve. One has to be in a soul (or spirit) to experience it. It is somewhat like Plato's Cave & the shadows on a wall. You know there is something going on or causing the effects but it is not the wall & the light but the thing that causes the shadow. Because you can find electro chemical effects does not mean that they are the causes of the soul but the other way around.
Tags
- sleeve job
- plato
- cave
- materialism
- mechanical
- item 16811
- platonism
Comments
Seth says
seth 2013-10-10 11:38:45 16811
it is almost impossible for me to think those thoughts without being aware of the attitudinal assumptions that come with phrases like "materialists who believe in a mechanical universe", "low priced meat computer", and "electro chemical effect". I read those kind of phrases like i read political propaganda. The language itself implies attitudes that i just do not share.
Me i am continually amazed by what is happening and what works and what i can experience of that. Whatever it is, i see no reason to cop an attitude towards it, degrading it as mere materialistic and mechanical. There is nothing here that i dread or avoid just because it is perceived as material or works in a predictable manner. In fact i love those.
I don't suppose that you could rephrase your thought here without using that presumptive language? ... err, just so that i could perhaps hear it better.
I consider my soul to be my mind ... and i have no trouble finding it. You really would have to be me, in this body over here, to experience my soul ... as far as i know there is no way possibly to experience it otherwise. No, it will not show up on external instruments. err ... otherness, don't you know ... oh but you never did appreciate that notion, did you?
Me i am continually amazed by what is happening and what works and what i can experience of that. Whatever it is, i see no reason to cop an attitude towards it, degrading it as mere materialistic and mechanical. There is nothing here that i dread or avoid just because it is perceived as material or works in a predictable manner. In fact i love those.
I don't suppose that you could rephrase your thought here without using that presumptive language? ... err, just so that i could perhaps hear it better.
I consider my soul to be my mind ... and i have no trouble finding it. You really would have to be me, in this body over here, to experience my soul ... as far as i know there is no way possibly to experience it otherwise. No, it will not show up on external instruments. err ... otherness, don't you know ... oh but you never did appreciate that notion, did you?
The apparently angry assumptions you made about my language just causes me to say "look in the mirror". I first used the term "mechanical universe" as the sci channel Morgan Freeman used it in his series "Through the Wormhole". It is quite descriptive of materialism. I told you that before, but you must have memory loss. Keep looking for the sleeve job - it must suit you. Your comments are off topic so far. Try to focus on the subject instead of your listening for my language.
Seth says
Point missed is that there is nothing in the language nor in images called up by descriptions in language, nor readouts from instruments that in any way resembles our experience of the senses, soul, spirit etc. Hence the Sleeve Job attribution. All you folks have is a very, very long story about electricity & chemistry producing such.
Seth says
seth 2013-10-11 08:35:26 16811
whatever you have your head stuck up your ass. apparently you are afraid to talk with me about this. so be it.
... & you are still in the RWG & arguing about arguing ....
so fuck it!
so fuck it!
Seth says
ME 2013-10-11 08:00:24 16811
seth 2013-10-11 07:41:33 16811
incidentally there is no RWG from me at all ... trust me ... i judge you not. i do however speak for myself. There need be no rwg here whatsoever ... just honest communication. Believe it or not ... this dialogue is exactly what you make of it.
& this is how it is played ....
Big clue: "I'm NOT wrong" is just another branch of the RWG.
Seth says
seth 2013-10-11 07:37:40 16811
Well you do have a story "about the material world". It is so very strange that you would think you do not.
My problem with using that word, "material", and its somewhat realted word "materialism" is that not only do those two get confused (is writer and in listener) but it also gets confused with "physical", "physics", "nature", "the cosmos" and several other notions. Frequently it is used as the opposite of spirit ... or even perhaps, against it. Quite frankly, when i hear you use it, i never really know what you are referring to. So i usually guess, when you use it in derogative sentences, that you are using it in to refer to that which in our lives is against your story of the spirit world.
Perhaps i guess wrong ... i will never know what you think unless your articulate it.
My problem with using that word, "material", and its somewhat realted word "materialism" is that not only do those two get confused (is writer and in listener) but it also gets confused with "physical", "physics", "nature", "the cosmos" and several other notions. Frequently it is used as the opposite of spirit ... or even perhaps, against it. Quite frankly, when i hear you use it, i never really know what you are referring to. So i usually guess, when you use it in derogative sentences, that you are using it in to refer to that which in our lives is against your story of the spirit world.
Perhaps i guess wrong ... i will never know what you think unless your articulate it.
.... Seth still arguing about arguing ... still in the RWG ....
Hopeless!
Hopeless!
Seth says
seth 2013-10-11 04:10:31 16811
ME 2013-10-10 16:45:08 16811
Point missed is that there is nothing in the language nor in images called up by descriptions in language, nor readouts from instruments that in any way resembles our experience of the senses, soul, spirit etc. Hence the Sleeve Job attribution. All you folks have is a very, very long story about electricity & chemistry producing such.
and the point you missed was that i agreed with you ...
source: seth above
I consider my soul to be my mind ... and i have no trouble finding it. You really would have to be me, in this body over here, to experience my soul ... as far as i know there is no way possibly to experience it otherwise. No, it will not show up on external instruments. err ... otherness, don't you know ...
I consider my soul to be my mind ... and i have no trouble finding it. You really would have to be me, in this body over here, to experience my soul ... as far as i know there is no way possibly to experience it otherwise. No, it will not show up on external instruments. err ... otherness, don't you know ...
... sans some of the attitudes embedded in your language ... and err, i even said as much ...
source: seth above
t is almost impossible for me to think those thoughts without being aware of the attitudinal assumptions that come with phrases like "materialists who believe in a mechanical universe", "low priced meat computer", and "electro chemical effect". I read those kind of phrases like i read political propaganda. The language itself implies attitudes that i just do not share.
t is almost impossible for me to think those thoughts without being aware of the attitudinal assumptions that come with phrases like "materialists who believe in a mechanical universe", "low priced meat computer", and "electro chemical effect". I read those kind of phrases like i read political propaganda. The language itself implies attitudes that i just do not share.
... You and the language you are using is telling a story too. I've heard the story before ... just as you have ... after all we grew up together before we met here. Me, i just don't like the part of your story that degrades the actual world i find myself living in. I have no anger towards you ... nor was there any in the voice i used above ... i didn't draw to shoot you. Go ahead, continue to tell our old story ... again and again ... it doesn't make me angry at all ... it becomes more and more to me like an experience of history or archeology.
so which story is the sleeve job?
so which story is the sleeve job?
The one you tell yuourself as you judge my "attitude" & language out of your RWG machinery. I am fucking sick of arguing about arguing with you. I have no story degrading the material world. That idea is in your childhood anchors & conflict with CFR or other protective ego machinery or something else... maybe the material world is the only place your ego can get its strokes.
I speak about other things out of my experience. Some of that language is poor or insufficient. Where others have gone down a path similar I tend to use their languages & metaphors rather than try to bastardize the regular English Language & make up my own definitions of words. I can keep my shit to myself if all you have is RWG about it & your problem studk in the past & your knee-jerk mismatching listening.. I use all sources of inspiration (some call it research) & am not blinded by my past. Get out of the cave ! (or not) these may actually not be the droids you are looking for.
c.f. H.G. Wells. too!
I speak about other things out of my experience. Some of that language is poor or insufficient. Where others have gone down a path similar I tend to use their languages & metaphors rather than try to bastardize the regular English Language & make up my own definitions of words. I can keep my shit to myself if all you have is RWG about it & your problem studk in the past & your knee-jerk mismatching listening.. I use all sources of inspiration (some call it research) & am not blinded by my past. Get out of the cave ! (or not) these may actually not be the droids you are looking for.
c.f. H.G. Wells. too!
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