The Antidote for Rules for Radicals

About: rules for patriots

Funny thing a couple of days after the Rules for Radicals expose here & at this shows up (Free - may have to register, though)


  1. tea party
  3. conservatives
  4. item 16849


Seth says
ME 2013-10-23 08:00:08 16848
seth 2013-10-23 07:47:26 16848
Why do you start off a paragraph with a lie? .... "people agreeing to things just to be agreeable"?  Obviously there is none of the intention to agree just to be agreeable in my thought ... none whatsoever ... in fact, just the opposite. 

too bad, you poisoned my attitude towards your paragraph ... now i cannot even read it.  I will never know if there are any real goodies in it.
There is no lie except in your mind.  You POISONED the pool with your first opposition phrase "not my thing" - I gave it CONTEXT.  If you don't like it walk away just like the rest who would rather be willfully ignorant or inquire into what I mean instead.
good beginning, eh?
I recommend not accusing someone of lying to start off.  Maybe that could be a principle.  Maybe not.

Seth says
seth 2013-10-23 06:49:42 16848
Well i too think we have a serious problem with corrupting government and its bureaucratic incompetence.   Freedom is great ... but it is only half of the story.  The other half is our organism working as a balanced whole while it grows into the new world.  Sorry, i feel the  polarity fighting of Tea Party ( is having the opposite effect of decaying our collective orginism under the guize of the propaganda of freedom.  Not my thing.

But it might be interesting to look at these 13 categories, not from the point of view of left/right polarity ... but from a intention to  guide our society and help it work better.  For example the last one, ... polarity ..., that might be changed into something more like: recognition and consciousness moving to agreement.   We might be able to come up with similar solutions for each of those 13 categories.  But, of course, that is all just in the meta world of "story" ... it won't necessarily improve our organism ... and if we fight over it, it would tend just to decay it.
Yep - people agreeing to things just to be agreeable - is not my thingy either! In a one party system without public opposition we get totalitarianism viz the ways of the Soviet Union, Mao's Cultural Revolution & the current regime in Iran.  Past mistakes in history repeating themselves show up again & again & again until they are learned or the people who willfully become ignorant win or lose or are left behind by evolution. The palliative "recognition and consciousness moving to agreement"  is about as useful as the Rodneyh King thingy - always gets the same results.  We did a fair amount on modeling consensus at PJ2. But that society had no economic structure except food stamps & some jobs outside.
I watched the Sci Channel on Heinlein (Prophets of Science Fiction) last night.  I was surprised that he was identified by the program as a Libertarian- with a strong sense of individualism.  It is not then so surprising any longer.  Can't throw out individualism without throwing out genius & invention. I would like to have the discussion starting on hard core principles which most can agree about. It would be a good idea to watch the video on Erhard & Buckeley who crisped some of that up in the first part of their "dinner interview".  Politics as we see on TV was not part of that - the interview was from the '70's - PJ2 era. 
How you derive any specific idea or project from your palliative? What can you do with that?
16846 bears on the situation.  The  internet era, also predicted by Heinlein, also has the problems of doing the same old things but much - much faster. The Tower of Babel etc. Everyone loves agreement when it is with them & their side & ideas. I doubt you can wish away the Tao!

Seth says
seth 2013-10-23 10:45:50 16848
Consider this ... understanding ... err, consciousness ... is the same thing as agreement.  Conversely, disagreement and rwg, is its lack.  There is nothing fake or pc about grocking from the other's perspective ... that it may not be "your thing" is strange and incredible.
At first read I went WTF? But, then lets parse it anyway:
understanding = consciousness =agreement ??  (is that the jist of your first sentence?) ... they are all three different from each other says Mark.
disagreement and rwg is its lack (for some value of "its" says Mark) has the original problem of being based on the first sentence premises. The RWG is not disagreement & as distinct from just disagreement RWG is a psychological/mental program problem of the ego.
That it may not be "your thing" (for some value of "it" says Mark) is strange & incredible (because of what? says Mark) .
There is nothing fake or pc about groking from the other's perspective ... (not initially brought up but having been done now it is interesting, but is not the nugget of agreeing says Mark - it is further conflation of understanding, consciousness, agreement & empathy.

I am guessing that you might be referring to my "agreeing to things just to be agreeable"  since that is the only time I mentioned my thing. If I were to do so I would just be fake & such a conversation would yield nothing fruitful. Integrity is one of my things.  Being fake is NOT! Persuasion works when the arguments are cogent & the conversation stays on topic & questions asked are answered instead of tacking away (a sailing metaphor) to something new, usually an RWG nexus like bad mind reading.
agree (v.) Look up agree at Dictionary.comlate 14c., "to be to one's liking;" also "to give consent," from Old French agreer "to receive with favor, take pleasure in" (12c.), from phrase a gré "favorably, of good will," literally "to (one's) liking," from Latin ad "to" (see ad-) + gratum "pleasing," neuter of gratus (see grace (n.)); the original sense survives best in agreeable. Meaning "to be in harmony in opinions" is from late 15c. Related: Agreed; agreeing.

Seth says
seth 2013-10-23 13:40:24 16848
fine, these are not the droids i am looking for
Yep, thought so - no substance just argument droids on your side knocking.

Seth says
seth 2013-10-23 13:03:53 16848
well, i am not really into being right or being wrong here ... or in parsing you trying to be right or wrong here either.  please take what i say without twisting it.  "people agreeing to things just to be agreeable" had nothing to do with what i said ... your implication that it did notwithstanding. 

if you want to get back on track, you could start by rereading my original response to your "antidote".   it was strange, after i wrote it i kept rereading it and actually managed to see more and more in it ... not saying that it is the perfect attitude ... certainly it can be improved ... and i would like to hear how you could manage to use it ...

This is too much off topic & onto your favorite topic of arguing about arguing. I had to delete your repeat in order to comment - for some strange reason it had no place for me to write. Stay on the Rules; invent some real principles & talk about the subject or not.  You could even include what you may dislike about rule #13 or support it - whichever.  Your parental tactic of telling me to reread your shit doesn't bode well for agreement & most of what I last wrote you ignored - so I'm losing interest.

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