Concept Net

About: conceptnet 5

Lots of good stuff to digest here including the links from Neo4J graph database et al here. http://www.neo4j.org/develop/ruby

Tags

  1. neo4j
  2. concept net
  3. ruby
  4. ontology
  5. tracking corruption
  6. wikipedia
  7. corruption
  8. crony capitalism
  9. infographics
  10. words

Comments


Seth says
seth 2013-11-11 10:38:51 16891
now this is what i would call an ontology or at least a semantic network about it.

Interesting to see the relations they already have for "ideal" and "real".

Of course, all of this networked data is just language ... and in that sense is part of what i would call the meta world.  Note that they have published the relationship between two words
{real --Antonym--> fake }  ... but should my perused relationship thingey, {real --thingey--> ideal}, actually be imagined to exist, --thingey--> could not be --Antonym-->, because that would imply that  {a ideal --isA--> a fake} which obviously is not true.

Everything is real somewhere whether it is in the mind, physical world, emotional world etc. it exists. Manifestation in the physical is currently in vogue to describe exists. But then again there are those who are stuck in the quantum world with all kinds of other existence.
I liked the networked database which I installed locally.  Need to do some work on my Win7 or put it on my Linux to do detailed experiments. I envision a template generator that is similar to making networked stuff like a symloop via simple property sheets instead of the Cypher language .

Seth says
seth 2013-11-15 10:16:39 16891
seth 2013-11-15 09:58:13 16891
ME 2013-11-15 09:10:09 16891
Alien thought/question for the moment: What is going on (maybe in the mind) before one clothes a thought in language - maybe even before a picture?



yes that is the 64k question.   i noticed in my youth that a thought existed in my mind prior to my voicing of it in language.  i went through a phase where i kept asking myself, which should i prefer, that which precede the voicing, or the voicing itself ... in other words i was deciding whether to try to suppress the voicing and just listen to the original thought sans language.  but then i discovered that a unvoiced thought was not just a little bit more fleeting and almost impossible to remember.  so i kind of decided to just let things be the way they naturally were.


thing is now, quite recently, i have noticed that writing a thought out (even publicly) allows me to carry the process that starts with an unvoiced thought quite more vividly out into the world ... and then continue to improve it.  
I put no charge or preference to pre-verbal or verbal - each is suitable for its own context. I have noticed that on some occasions I can carry on pre-verbal content  after the particular exercise is over. My first purpose is just to get control of my noisy mind including stray songs which have got stuck via T's waking up to clock radio.  Another purpose has been to study "silent thought" from the ontological perspective.  As I blog here, something shows up in multiple dimensions (verbal & pre-verbal) & I have to make a choice as to what comes out of my fingers.  It is interesting, but I suspect of limited utility except perhaps to tame a mind.


Seth says
Yeah, I am not after the ontology.  That was supposed to be an example of using Ruby & the Neo4j graphic database http://www.neo4j.org/develop/ruby


Seth says
seth 2013-11-11 12:58:57 16891
incidentally i have a feeling that this is just  WordNet .... iow is just about the words of language.

SUMO,however, is a ontology which you can browse here and other places.    Back some years ago i studied it in a fair amount of detail and even participated in some discussions on the forum.  I mentographed what John Sowa said to kick off the top most level ... i believe that ended up being this node now in the database ... note that the first distinction was between Physical and Abstract. 

I know it is strange to standardize an ontology, since even back then there was pretty much a consensus that everybody's top level ontology was different, but anyway the IEEE actually attempted to do it.   The top of my personal ontology is Process ... everything is a process ... whether spiritual or real ... abstract of physical.  I'm sure you break it down quite differently.

yeah i'm not really into ontology now either.  especially the higher/lower dimension of it where a human claims that one distinction *should* be made first .... even though perhps the first distinction should be that a human is making this distinction and perhaps even which aspect of his brain he is using ... lol
 

Seth says
source: mark
am looking for a way to deploy a reliable Fair Witness application which can capture events & happenings easily & link them together to build a multi-layer view of interesting subjects. Certainly SVO is sufficient to capture a root layer of the English language.
... Do you know that Wikipedia also records events ... and that perhaps there is a SVO style database of everything at Wikipedia called dbpedia or something like that?  If that really has been manifested like that, wouldn't it be a good start for your project?

How is your local database intended to be connected with a cloud database and how do you see it growing and scaling into the vast detail that might make it of interest to others?

Seth says
seth 2013-11-12 07:31:59 16891
ME 2013-11-11 13:28:47 16891
Yeah, I am not after the ontology.  That was supposed to be an example of using Ruby & the Neo4j graphic database http://www.neo4j.org/develop/ruby


are you looking to deploy a "subject verb object" kind of database?
Well perhaps.  I am looking for a way to deploy a reliable Fair Witness application which can capture events & happenings easily & link them together to build a multi-layer view of interesting subjects. Certainly SVO is sufficient to capture a root layer of the English language.


Seth says
Here is something interesting:
 
Source: ... This time, his undercover investigators focused on Obamacare’s “navigators,” the nearly 50,000 people who, in the words of the Department of Health and Human Services, “will serve as an in-person resource for Americans who want additional assistance in shopping for and enrolling in plans” on the Obamacare exchanges (at least when they’re finally working). The total value of grants doled out for nonprofits and community organizations to hire navigators has topped $67 million nationwide, and some of the money is going to a group run by ACORN’s highly controversial founder.
...
Now you may not like the source of the article.  Is there a fair witness that can validate the contents anywhere that you would also trust?  What about the context, proportionality & importance at this time.  Is it a gotcha or is it just in time to investigate?  Is it crony or corruption or something else?


Seth says
source: mark envision a template generator that is similar to making networked stuff
it just dawned on me that i have recently run into an actual  application of the template/property-sheet strategy applied to the hairy mess of manifested reality in a multi person environment (LOL) ... and that is setting up new projects to be sold at amazon.  you can't really see it unless you singn on to amazon and try to sell a product ... and strangely enough there is very little of the data that even affects what the public sees that comes from the data that a merchant is forced to enter about a product.  my analysis is that the templates are not nearly flexible enought to be of any practical value.  so in your system you may want to give some thought as to how the templates themselves grow and change and by whom and how they get chosen when a new instance is to be created.  imho, amazon made a total mess of the project.

Seth says
seth 2013-11-12 08:39:08 16891
source: mark
am looking for a way to deploy a reliable Fair Witness application which can capture events & happenings easily & link them together to build a multi-layer view of interesting subjects. Certainly SVO is sufficient to capture a root layer of the English language.
... Do you know that Wikipedia also records events ... and that perhaps there is a SVO style database of everything at Wikipedia called dbpedia or something like that?  If that really has been manifested like that, wouldn't it be a good start for your project?

How is your local database intended to be connected with a cloud database and how do you see it growing and scaling into the vast detail that might make it of interest to others?
All very kewl questions. IDK - the core of my interest is the fair witness capturing good info or exposing something of interest.  I don't think Wikipedia, even though I like it & it is peer reviewed, is really written byfair witnesses.  Neo4J has one thing in it's favor & that is NOSql .  One could actually make an ICyberMind with it, I think. Look here for cloud & Neo4j. I'm sure there are others.  Cloud means there is a humongous server farm available for public use by apps over the Internet (or other). Google, Amazon, Apple etc have them.  I don't, but can access them.
I may be on a fool's errand.
mostly tracking interesting stuff in crony governments wherever they exist.  they are tracking us, why not the other way around - especially trying to bypass the M$M.

Seth says
seth 2013-11-12 08:59:22 16891
source: mark envision a template generator that is similar to making networked stuff
it just dawned on me that i have recently run into an actual  application of the template/property-sheet strategy applied to the hairy mess of manifested reality in a multi person environment (LOL) ... and that is setting up new projects to be sold at amazon.  you can't really see it unless you singn on to amazon and try to sell a product ... and strangely enough there is very little of the data that even affects what the public sees that comes from the data that a merchant is forced to enter about a product.  my analysis is that the templates are not nearly flexible enought to be of any practical value.  so in your system you may want to give some thought as to how the templates themselves grow and change and by whom and how they get chosen when a new instance is to be created.  imho, amazon made a total mess of the project.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind if I go forward with it.  This reminds me of why I thought of templates. In trying to test & learn their Cypher language I thought it almost as technical as SQL - neither is a novice tool. In building complex UML applications we used templates & property sheets & graphed the main relationships & the big pictures.


Seth says
tracking government corruption is certainly something that should be happening .

Seth says
source: mark
I don't think Wikipedia, even though I like it & it is peer reviewed, is really written by fair witnesses.
... well i don't share that opinion.  I had believed that Wikipedia has a whole culture of dedicated people who are reviewing the edits to ensure it's fairness according to the rules they have adopted.  i'm sure that a bit of Googeling around would yield a article describing it.  I've run into mentions of that numerous times.  Did you think that their phenomenal accuracy had been left to complete chance?

I think it would be interesting to delve quite a bit into the Wikipedia culture and simultaneously into Heinlein's descriptions of fair witness and truly grock the differences.

Seth says
ME 2013-11-12 10:28:40 16891
Here is something interesting:
 
Source: ... This time, his undercover investigators focused on Obamacare’s “navigators,” the nearly 50,000 people who, in the words of the Department of Health and Human Services, “will serve as an in-person resource for Americans who want additional assistance in shopping for and enrolling in plans” on the Obamacare exchanges (at least when they’re finally working). The total value of grants doled out for nonprofits and community organizations to hire navigators has topped $67 million nationwide, and some of the money is going to a group run by ACORN’s highly controversial founder.
...
Now you may not like the source of the article.  Is there a fair witness that can validate the contents anywhere that you would also trust?  What about the context, proportionality & importance at this time.  Is it a gotcha or is it just in time to investigate?  Is it crony or corruption or something else?

Note these people recently & others associated with helping people sign up are not pre-screened for felony convictions according to recent testimony by HHS before congress.

Seth says
seth 2013-11-12 09:53:53 16891
source: mark
I don't think Wikipedia, even though I like it & it is peer reviewed, is really written by fair witnesses.
... well i don't share that opinion.  I had believed that Wikipedia has a whole culture of dedicated people who are reviewing the edits to ensure it's fairness according to the rules they have adopted.  i'm sure that a bit of Googling around would yield a article describing it.  I've run into mentions of that numerous times.  Did you think that their phenomenal accuracy had been left to complete chance?

I think it would be interesting to delve quite a bit into the Wikipedia culture and simultaneously into Heinlein's descriptions of fair witness and truly grock the differences.
Maybe try to delve into what is left out of such things as this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton#Whitewater_and_other_investigations
What details ? Her Thesis? (violates copyright?).  Omission is just as bad as over exposure & a colonoscopy .  To each his own. I use it mostly here so I don't have to spend time explaining what I am talking about & for further reading.
A random selection of people who feel compelled to write about a topic & may have a predetermined point of view is not the same as a fair witness trained to be objective beyond any agenda private or public.  More about Zen later....



Seth says
The challenge for me with ontologies is that they seem to oriented as if a computer is going to become as human & intelligent. Anything can be mimicked; Eliza & the turing test notwithstanding.
What I see as useful is anything that assists in the organization, understand & investigation of various subjects of highly complex natures like economics, politics, climate & communication.
 

Seth says
ME 2013-11-13 07:58:20 16891
The challenge for me with ontologies is that they seem to oriented as if a computer is going to become as human & intelligent. Anything can be mimicked; Eliza & the turing test notwithstanding.
What I see as useful is anything that assists in the organization, understand & investigation of various subjects of highly complex natures like economics, politics, climate & communication.
 

ontologies can allow us to talk about specific things and not leave them up to interpretation.  humans are pretty good at guessing what it meant, computers are not.  so, yes, ontologies help computer processes be precise and hence smarter making them more useful.  but information industries have been slow to agree on which ontologies to use ... companies are reluctant to use an ontology established by their competition.  So still the teddy bears at amazon are not recognized as the stuffed bear toys of yahoo.  The human penchant for ambiguity still reins supreme. 

me, i like that i can be as precise as possible when necessary (i can give you the bloody url) ... yet other times leave things up to the interpretation and imagination and free will of my listener.


Seth says
This is even more fascinating in the area of Infographics  ... a periodic table of infographics the link explains what each is interactively .




Seth says
Words are neutral to me. Especially in the realm of politics they mean nothing & have that empty meaning with a half life of one news cycle or even one speech. In other contexts they are a bit better although in a Tony Robbins exercise I have referred to several times we took two words education and sex in a group of about 250 people and split into teams of 5 people to determine what 5 words conveyed the group consensus of the meanings.  They all came up with different results. Agreeing for machine processing is nice, but specialized. Communication between humans is more interesting & there it could be a fool's endeavor.


Seth says
Alien thought/question for the moment: What is going on (maybe in the mind) before one clothes a thought in language - maybe even before a picture?



Seth says
ME 2013-11-15 08:37:56 16891
seth 2013-11-15 08:27:36 16891
ME 2013-11-13 07:58:20 16891
The challenge for me with ontologies is that they seem to oriented as if a computer is going to become as human & intelligent. Anything can be mimicked; Eliza & the turing test notwithstanding.
What I see as useful is anything that assists in the organization, understand & investigation of various subjects of highly complex natures like economics, politics, climate & communication.
 

ontologies can allow us to talk about specific things and not leave them up to interpretation.  humans are pretty good at guessing what it meant, computers are not.  so, yes, ontologies help computer processes be precise and hence smarter making them more useful.  but information industries have been slow to agree on which ontologies to use ... companies are reluctant to use an ontology established by their competition.  So still the teddy bears at amazon are not recognized as the stuffed bear toys of yahoo.  The human penchant for ambiguity still reins supreme. 

me, i like that i can be as precise as possible when necessary (i can give you the bloody url) ... yet other times leave things up to the interpretation and imagination and free will of my listener.

.. thanks for sharing ... i was going in a different direction ... my thoughts on ai et al are aimed at what is useful to the humans in the mix .... aggregation may or not be useful ("information industries"?) - I want to go in the direction of analysis & intelligence .. more like infographics ... a picture says a thousand words etc.


hmmm ... strange ... i do not see the "direction" you are going as any different than the direction i am going in this context.  i too am "aimed at what is useful to humans in the mix" ... the smarter the tools around me are, the smarter and more efficient i myself can be in my environment.  

strangely enough right after i wrote the paragraphs above it dawned on me that a task that i take up today in my business is actually concerned with how precisely different computer systems can talk to each other.   Speak to me is already daily spewing into the semantic cloud its offerings to the public ... you can see those here ... i do that primarily for Google shopping even though it has not been very effective for us compared to our amazon efforts.  And here is the kicker ... i have the database for our products ... why can i not feed Google, and Amazon, and stuff talks from it?   Sorry, i'll move that to another item, but can you at least see how it is related to your concerns with ontology?

Seth says
seth 2013-11-15 09:45:30 16891
i like your infographics exposition.  Co, concept maps, are mentography.  Thing is a periodic table should expose the similarities of the various elements. A labeled direct graphs is one such theme running through many of the kinds of graphs.  I was looking for how those common themes were expressed in the table ... but i didn't see it.  Did you?
I did not go into the granularity except to notice, like the periodic table of chemical elements, that color is the association - see the legend.


Seth says
source: mark
I put no charge or preference to pre-verbal or verbal - each is suitable for its own context. I have noticed that on some occasions I can carry on pre-verbal content  after the particular exercise is over. My first purpose is just to get control of my noisy mind including stray songs which have got stuck via T's waking up to clock radio.  Another purpose has been to study "silent thought" from the ontological perspective.  As I blog here, something shows up in multiple dimensions (verbal & pre-verbal) & I have to make a choice as to what comes out of my fingers.  It is interesting, but I suspect of limited utility except perhaps to tame a mind.

  hmmm ... to get control of noisy mind ... and tame it ... and then to make choices as to what comes out of fingers .... interesting way to put it .... interesting indeed

me i have pretty much given up on taming the noise, except of course some meditation and centering in nowness and instigating attitudes.  the fingers i try to dynamically balance on my reality and just let them go ... i can always edit out the mistakes if i catch them in time when i go over the results .

the noise might *be* the signal ... can i lean into it? ... i don't know ... you of course are going to be totally different in there ... so nothing i say about myself will apply to you.  i think with me there is a whole lot of feedback between the verbal and the preverbal.

so that is just me bouncing off of your bounce ... enjoy!



Seth says
I almost put the disclaimer that were not at odds on this topic, but left it out at the last minute.  I am pointing out that your sharing differs from mine in the cause that sired this item & my interest in Neo4J.  I do understand ontologies & their purposes. I am most interested in getting to core principles by analysis & graphics quicker than reading text & writing programs & googling around.


Seth says
seth 2013-11-15 09:58:13 16891
ME 2013-11-15 09:10:09 16891
Alien thought/question for the moment: What is going on (maybe in the mind) before one clothes a thought in language - maybe even before a picture?



yes that is the 64k question.   i noticed in my youth that a thought existed in my mind prior to my voicing of it in language.  i went through a phase where i kept asking myself, which should i prefer, that which precede the voicing, or the voicing itself ... in other words i was deciding whether to try to suppress the voicing and just listen to the original thought sans language.  but then i discovered that a unvoiced thought was not just a little bit more fleeting and almost impossible to remember.  so i kind of decided to just let things be the way they naturally were.


thing is now, quite recently, i have noticed that writing a thought out (even publicly) allows me to carry the process that starts with an unvoiced thought quite more vividly out into the world ... and then continue to improve it.  

Seth says
We both have similar equipment & similar operating systems but differ in the stories we tell & the points of view from which we observe life. The architect probably had some reason for making more than one of us.


Seth says
seth 2013-11-16 11:12:26 16891
ME 2013-11-16 09:39:04 16891
We both have similar equipment & similar operating systems but differ in the stories we tell & the points of view from which we observe life. The architect probably had some reason for making more than one of us.



yes certainly so

i had to go find what this smybol referres to ... er, and why associated here ... apparently it is from the freemasons ... why it showed up in this context i cannot imagine


I used the term "architect" in the above "The architect probably had some reason for making more than one of us." & that reminded me of the symbol which looks at the creator as the Geometer of it all ... i.e. the architect. The original masons were masters of trades who worked with what the creator had made - somewhat of a sacred calling.


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