Relationship

About: title not given

Seth aught ta like this one:

"In our default way of being in the world, in the West, we ascribe properties to objects. So without any conscious-deliberative thought, we say:

  • This rose is red;
  • This bag is heavy;
  • My husband-wife-partner is selfish;
  • My boss is harsh-selfish-demanding-stupid;
  • My work is boring;
  • The English are cold-unfriendly people;
  • The Americans are arrogant;
  • This food is delicious;
  • She has such an irritating voice ……

Let’s stop and ask ourselves the question, “Is what I take for granted really what is so?”  Let’s just consider the last assertion “She has such an irritating voice!”, as assertion made by a family member when she heard me listening to a podcast."

Werner's people via facebook.


No new thoughts or judgements in the world?
No new ideas?
Everything has already been said so shut up?

Tags

  1. werner erhard
  2. ontology
  3. relationship
  4. truth
  5. catch22
  6. item 16968

Comments


Seth says
seth 2013-12-17 09:56:55 16968
yep, this stuff is true.

incidentally, denise thinks "there is no such thing as fresh thought"... me i think thoughts change even faster than our culture.
True for dear boy, just like the rest of the bullet list in the item itself.  Catch-22 is the distinction.


Seth says
seth 2013-12-17 11:02:31 16968
seth 2013-12-17 10:39:50 16968
ME 2013-12-17 10:33:26 16968
seth 2013-12-17 10:26:33 16968
ME 2013-12-17 10:18:05 16968
seth 2013-12-17 09:56:55 16968
yep, this stuff is true.

incidentally, denise thinks "there is no such thing as fresh thought"... me i think thoughts change even faster than our culture.
True for dear boy, just like the rest of the bullet list in the item itself.  Catch-22 is the distinction.

what distinction ??
Read the item itself or go follow Werner's link.

i did.  i still can't guess where the Catch-22 is. 

catch 22 is: you can get out if you are crazy, but if you try to get out your not crazy, and cannot get out.   i'm having troubles expressing the substance of warners list and your add-ons in that form.   hmmm ... but let me try .... you can see something objectively if you get out of yourself, but if you get out of yourself, you are not there, so you can't be objective.   lol ... is that even close to your grock?
close enough. Closer would be Werner Erhard expressing his own opinions, but they are just something somebody said (mostly his mentors) in the way of books etc.


Seth says
seth 2013-12-17 11:17:58 16968
interesting ... via my tagging ... we get ...
source: seth
The question can be asked:  given that two people hold contradictory beliefs, must the conversation between them in the context of those beliefs,  be a right wrong game ?
... ... but tell me it is not true!

Conclude that the "two people" hold whatever the beliefs or subjects are in different contexts - NP
... no truth, no problem.


Seth says
seth 2013-12-17 10:26:33 16968
ME 2013-12-17 10:18:05 16968
seth 2013-12-17 09:56:55 16968
yep, this stuff is true.

incidentally, denise thinks "there is no such thing as fresh thought"... me i think thoughts change even faster than our culture.
True for dear boy, just like the rest of the bullet list in the item itself.  Catch-22 is the distinction.

what distinction ??
Read the item itself or go follow Werner's link.


Seth says
seth 2013-12-17 10:39:50 16968
ME 2013-12-17 10:33:26 16968
seth 2013-12-17 10:26:33 16968
ME 2013-12-17 10:18:05 16968
seth 2013-12-17 09:56:55 16968
yep, this stuff is true.

incidentally, denise thinks "there is no such thing as fresh thought"... me i think thoughts change even faster than our culture.
True for dear boy, just like the rest of the bullet list in the item itself.  Catch-22 is the distinction.

what distinction ??
Read the item itself or go follow Werner's link.

i did.  i still can't guess where the Catch-22 is. 

catch 22 is: you can get out if you are crazy, but if you try to get out your not crazy, and cannot get out.   i'm having troubles expressing the substance of warners list and your add-ons in that form.   hmmm ... but let me try .... you can see something objectively if you get out of yourself, but if you get out of yourself, you are not there, so you can't be objective.   lol ... is that even close to your grock?

Seth says
seth 2013-12-17 13:28:59 16968
ME 2013-12-17 12:52:03 16968
seth 2013-12-17 11:17:58 16968
interesting ... via my tagging ... we get ...
source: seth
The question can be asked:  given that two people hold contradictory beliefs, must the conversation between them in the context of those beliefs,  be a right wrong game ?
... ... but tell me it is not true!

Conclude that the "two people" hold whatever the beliefs or subjects are in different contexts - NP
... no truth, no problem.

hmmm ...  are you saying that if people hold contradictory beliefs, that they must be holding them in different contexts?   i give up.  i can't guess what you are saying.  if beliefs differ *AND* context remains the same (ie there is no confusion), then the assumptions going into the beliefs must be different. 

... or perhaps have i just missed your mirthiness .
... must be since the whole thingy from Erhard is somewhat of a joke.

Seth says
ME 2013-12-17 12:52:03 16968
seth 2013-12-17 11:17:58 16968
interesting ... via my tagging ... we get ...
source: seth
The question can be asked:  given that two people hold contradictory beliefs, must the conversation between them in the context of those beliefs,  be a right wrong game ?
... ... but tell me it is not true!

Conclude that the "two people" hold whatever the beliefs or subjects are in different contexts - NP
... no truth, no problem.

hmmm ...  are you saying that if people hold contradictory beliefs, that they must be holding them in different contexts?   i give up.  i can't guess what you are saying.  if beliefs differ *AND* context remains the same (ie there is no confusion), then the assumptions going into the beliefs must be different. 

... or perhaps have i just missed your mirthiness .

Seth says
seth 2013-12-18 00:03:24 16968
incidentally, the assumptions that i put into my mind and which knit my beliefs together in some semblance of a coherent story are not factual ... they are not of that nature ... they can not be proven one way or another ... they are indefeasible.  if i hold them fast ... if am are passionate about them ... then i do so by dint of habit or faith or personal profit.

is it not the same with you ??

incidentally i originally wrote the paragraph above from the stance of third-person-wise ... but i though it was a better truth were i just admit it in the first person. 
The blue emphasis in the body of the item itself is the joke as that is coming from Erhard as a pontificator of some reputation which in a way negates his own message.  Sort of like "I am now lying" ... only different.
Nice word ... indefeasible!  why?

There is some point where we switch context early in babyhood from whatever is there to an objective world.  I think that an objective world is provable, not you?


Seth says
ME 2013-12-17 14:45:53 16968
seth 2013-12-17 13:28:59 16968
ME 2013-12-17 12:52:03 16968
seth 2013-12-17 11:17:58 16968
interesting ... via my tagging ... we get ...
source: seth
The question can be asked:  given that two people hold contradictory beliefs, must the conversation between them in the context of those beliefs,  be a right wrong game ?
... ... but tell me it is not true!

Conclude that the "two people" hold whatever the beliefs or subjects are in different contexts - NP
... no truth, no problem.

hmmm ...  are you saying that if people hold contradictory beliefs, that they must be holding them in different contexts?   i give up.  i can't guess what you are saying.  if beliefs differ *AND* context remains the same (ie there is no confusion), then the assumptions going into the beliefs must be different. 

... or perhaps have i just missed your mirthiness .
... must be since the whole thingy from Erhard is somewhat of a joke.
... more like just common knowledge  ... almost a patitude

Seth says
seth 2013-12-18 07:59:56 16968
ME 2013-12-18 07:05:21 16968
seth 2013-12-18 00:03:24 16968
incidentally, the assumptions that i put into my mind and which knit my beliefs together in some semblance of a coherent story are not factual ... they are not of that nature ... they can not be proven one way or another ... they are indefeasible.  if i hold them fast ... if am are passionate about them ... then i do so by dint of habit or faith or personal profit.

is it not the same with you ??

incidentally i originally wrote the paragraph above from the stance of third-person-wise ... but i though it was a better truth were i just admit it in the first person. 
The blue emphasis in the body of the item itself is the joke as that is coming from Erhard as a pontificator of some reputation which in a way negates his own message.  Sort of like "I am now lying" ... only different.
Nice word ... indefeasible!  why?

There is some point where we switch context early in babyhood from whatever is there to an objective world.  I think that an objective world is provable, not you?


Good point ... and, er ... quite profound actually .

Me, i believe in an objective world only as a kind of limit ... but somewhere i can never stand ... and can never honestly comprehend ... yet i can try to approach it.  and, no, i do not think it is provable.  there simply  is no test that could possible defeat such a notion ... hence it is indefeasable ... so i can believe it or not, just as i will.

perhaps i did switch as a baby from the virginal state of accepting whatever is there to thinking that there was just one authoritative objective world out there.  later in life i have changed to believing that we humans actually have more of a active hand in creating whatever it is that is there, just according to what we do.  so for me my freedom is not a sham ... it is not a lie.
... er, nice brain dump.

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