A different view of the Snowden Affair
About: how the nsa almost killed the internet | threat level | wired.com
Tags
- snowden
- ends justifies means
- nsa
Comments
MeE says
Anyone think the spying ended - I don't!
Anyone trust the current government to come clean & become transparent - I don't!
Anyone think our friends in the international community respect us more & will share more intel on terrorism now - I don't
When your context is always yourself - you can justify anything - Hooray! Hu-rah!
Anyone trust the current government to come clean & become transparent - I don't!
Anyone think our friends in the international community respect us more & will share more intel on terrorism now - I don't
When your context is always yourself - you can justify anything - Hooray! Hu-rah!
Seth says
means cause consequences. justification and judgement is beauty or shit in the eye of the beholder. i see no good use in munging those together into a context insensitive rule.
MeE says
seth 2014-01-07 10:55:06 17008
means cause consequences. justification and judgement is beauty or shit in the eye of the beholder. i see no good use in munging those together into a context insensitive rule.
Nor do tyrants, bullies & anarchists!
Seth says
Change has a cost, not changing has a cost as well. Those two costs should be weighed to justify an action. That is reason. But to think there is such a thing as change with no cost is to live in fairyland. Insisting that all action must be pure and good with no unwanted cost also justifies cowardice and inaction. It is so very strange how those profiting from the status quo shout that slogan to those oppressed by it ... yep, funny thing that slogan 
. Sorry 
, not my thing.
. Sorry , not my thing.
Seth says
anyway the wired article, has an interesting perspective and is well worth a read ... and is not anything about means/ends justification.
MeE says
seth 2014-01-07 13:31:10 17008
Wow ... how do you know all that stuff ? Mindreading?
MeE 2014-01-07 13:22:37 17008
Mindreading & reading what I write is not your thing either. I said nothing about NO CHANGE, dude!
I am sure Snowjob did not consider consequences except his own ego stroke & possibly becoming a antihero for the left like Assange. I am sure he didn't consider ending up in Russia, but maybe that is what he plotted a long time ago when he took the job. I am sure he did not think of what other courses of legal whistleblower action he might have taken. I am sure he did not consider that in the end just about the only change would be his always having to look over his back for possible arrest & maybe assination. I can speculate he never made a Ben Franklin pro/con list of what both sides of his action could cause. The ends justified whatever means he needed - imho - pending evidence to the contrary.
An example of unpleasant but necessary means & ends ended WW-II in the Pacific with Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
I am sure Snowjob did not consider consequences except his own ego stroke & possibly becoming a antihero for the left like Assange. I am sure he didn't consider ending up in Russia, but maybe that is what he plotted a long time ago when he took the job. I am sure he did not think of what other courses of legal whistleblower action he might have taken. I am sure he did not consider that in the end just about the only change would be his always having to look over his back for possible arrest & maybe assination. I can speculate he never made a Ben Franklin pro/con list of what both sides of his action could cause. The ends justified whatever means he needed - imho - pending evidence to the contrary.
An example of unpleasant but necessary means & ends ended WW-II in the Pacific with Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Wow ... how do you know all that stuff ? Mindreading? Well, evidence to the contrary, it is reasonable speculation, DUDE! (told you that already - didn't read it did you?)
Seth says
Wow ... how do you know all that stuff ? Mindreading?
MeE 2014-01-07 13:22:37 17008
Mindreading & reading what I write is not your thing either. I said nothing about NO CHANGE, dude!
I am sure Snowjob did not consider consequences except his own ego stroke & possibly becoming a antihero for the left like Assange. I am sure he didn't consider ending up in Russia, but maybe that is what he plotted a long time ago when he took the job. I am sure he did not think of what other courses of legal whistleblower action he might have taken. I am sure he did not consider that in the end just about the only change would be his always having to look over his back for possible arrest & maybe assination. I can speculate he never made a Ben Franklin pro/con list of what both sides of his action could cause. The ends justified whatever means he needed - imho - pending evidence to the contrary.
An example of unpleasant but necessary means & ends ended WW-II in the Pacific with Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
I am sure Snowjob did not consider consequences except his own ego stroke & possibly becoming a antihero for the left like Assange. I am sure he didn't consider ending up in Russia, but maybe that is what he plotted a long time ago when he took the job. I am sure he did not think of what other courses of legal whistleblower action he might have taken. I am sure he did not consider that in the end just about the only change would be his always having to look over his back for possible arrest & maybe assination. I can speculate he never made a Ben Franklin pro/con list of what both sides of his action could cause. The ends justified whatever means he needed - imho - pending evidence to the contrary.
An example of unpleasant but necessary means & ends ended WW-II in the Pacific with Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
Wow ... how do you know all that stuff ? Mindreading?
MeE says
seth 2014-01-07 13:37:37 17008
anyway the wired article, has an interesting perspective and is well worth a read ... and is not anything about means/ends justification.
... & end in the end all Seth can say in his own words is NOPE!
FYI, I passed it through a concordance to see what kind of words showed up - particularly in multiples & concluded it was probably not just another liberal justification & might be worth a read, but for me not now. Maybe if Snowjob lands in a permanent country later. (THE was 502 - of course) & money was mentioned. I am more interested in exactly what POTUS & SCOTUS intend to do about it specifically. Will the CIA chief get thrown in jail for lying to Congress?
FYI, I passed it through a concordance to see what kind of words showed up - particularly in multiples & concluded it was probably not just another liberal justification & might be worth a read, but for me not now. Maybe if Snowjob lands in a permanent country later. (THE was 502 - of course) & money was mentioned. I am more interested in exactly what POTUS & SCOTUS intend to do about it specifically. Will the CIA chief get thrown in jail for lying to Congress?
Seth says
the realizations are not just about US government vs American people. rather they are also about the US government subverting trust in American tech companies world wide. Not surprisingly they are fighting back. I hope they win. I hope they find a way to secure the integrity of the network. Which side are you on ... the government's?
... and, er ... if you are listening only within the libertarian vs liberal box, you will miss what the realizations actually signal ... imho, of course. the message has been all over the net for sometime ... but you won't hear in from the Limbaugh crowd ... it would be too confusing for them to talk about. i glad segments of the media, like wired, have enough courage to cover it.
... and, er ... if you are listening only within the libertarian vs liberal box, you will miss what the realizations actually signal ... imho, of course. the message has been all over the net for sometime ... but you won't hear in from the Limbaugh crowd ... it would be too confusing for them to talk about. i glad segments of the media, like wired, have enough courage to cover it.
MeE says
seth 2014-01-07 14:51:09 17008
the realizations are not just about US government vs American people. rather they are also about the US government subverting trust in American tech companies world wide. Not surprisingly they are fighting back. I hope they win. I hope they find a way to secure the integrity of the network. Which side are you on ... the government's?
... and, er ... if you are listening only within the libertarian vs liberal box, you will miss what the realizations actually signal ... imho, of course. the message has been all over the net for sometime ... but you won't hear in from the Limbaugh crowd ... it would be too confusing for them to talk about. i glad segments of the media, like wired, have enough courage to cover it.
... and, er ... if you are listening only within the libertarian vs liberal box, you will miss what the realizations actually signal ... imho, of course. the message has been all over the net for sometime ... but you won't hear in from the Limbaugh crowd ... it would be too confusing for them to talk about. i glad segments of the media, like wired, have enough courage to cover it.
Yep, it's about the US Government subverting just about everything it gets its grubby hands upon. Libertarians recognize that. Liberals want to enhance more grubby hands - more stuff to take & regulate, more people to control. Dynamic balance not in the cards anytime soon, although there is hope for 2014 - no breath control here though.
Seth says
... more in Wired from Steven Levy
I Spent Two Hours Talking With the NSA's Bigwigs. Here's What Has Them Mad
... more in Wired from Steven Levy
I Spent Two Hours Talking With the NSA's Bigwigs. Here's What Has Them Mad
MeE says
seth 2014-01-13 11:43:17 17008
... more in Wired from Steven Levy
I Spent Two Hours Talking With the NSA's Bigwigs. Here's What Has Them Mad
... more in Wired from Steven Levy
I Spent Two Hours Talking With the NSA's Bigwigs. Here's What Has Them Mad
This picture always reminds me of this one: of the mosque at Mecca,
Nothing much in the article.
Nothing much in the article.
MeE says
Politico: ...
Rogers said several factors of the saga raise questions, that some of the things Snowden did in attaining the information “were beyond his technical capabilities,” according to an early transcript from the show.
In August, Russia granted Snowden one year’s asylum after he spent five weeks in legal limbo in Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport, a decision that has been an ongoing source of tension with the United States. The Obama administration has called for Snowden’s extradition so he can stand trial.
... all hail the hero anyway, eh?
MeE says
What may be killing the Internet is spyware, malware & viruses .
Seth says
Some thoughtful articles on Snowden have come out ...
Seth says
- perhaps even Snowden Calls Russian-Spy Story Absurd in Exclusive Interview with New Yorker
I note these stories here, not that i endorse them, in fact i havent even read them in detail, but that they appear to be, perhaps substantive, thoughts about Snodwen and privacy that have bubbled up in the media. I don't have a current agenda to delve into those subjects now since i feel that the relationship of this node to this change is at peace ... but who knows, things change, others may provoke a new interest here.
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