Libertarian sense of Community?

...
Michael Strong (Facebook): ... "All real community is voluntary. Milton Friedman once noted that the Israeli kibbutzim were free market institutions - because they are voluntary. While there are "libertarians" who are aggressively anti-communitarian, and might choose to live in the jurisdictions that are not community-oriented, in a voluntary society most people will create communities because they prefer to live in a community. Moreover, they will create tighter, healthier communities than usually exist today. Tocqueville wrote eloquently about the robust civic society of 19th century Euro-America. Although 19th century America was not a voluntary society for Native Americans and African-Americans, it largely was for Euro-Americans. Thus 19th century classical liberalism resulted in extraordinary community-spiritedness. Going back to the 18th century, Ben Franklin, who is sometimes described as "The Original American," was exemplary both as an entrepreneur and as a civic leader who created many volunteer organizations. The notion that a classical liberal society is in any sense at odds with community is one of the bizarre artifacts of 20th century thought. Both the aggressively individualist libertarians as well as the aggressively statist communitarians are the result of entrenched political battles that poisoned the healthy and obvious perspective of classical liberalism that people should be allowed to form their own communities."
...
See also this article from the base website. Maybe even browse around the whole website from the start.

Tags

  1. libertarian
  2. modern life
  3. leviathan
  4. mixed media
  5. community

Comments


Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-08 13:59:57 17075
seth 2014-02-08 13:58:37 17075
M1g0r 2014-02-08 12:23:38 17075
The individual versus the collection - some of us value our privacy to one degree or not more than others. If you feel the need go for it. I suspect any impediment is all there with you somehow. 17065 may be helpful. Maybe there is an app there already.


whatever.  your advise seems to be much more about just me personally than my thought ever was ... that seems to be a pattern that frequently happens here. 
Maybe because I don't see it as a general problem at all.  I see no need for collective action to remedy anything. That's why

yes it seems you have not experienced the same feelings here as have i. 

but did you not expressed how much you enjoyed the P-II community ... and what happened with Common Logic there?  Do you not have a hankering to interact again with such a community?  Do you not find a lack of some kind of community within your neighborhood in Paradise?  ... or back in the Valley where you used to work?  ... or other cities where you used to live?  then too were you not wondering what it would be like to have a community founded on "principles of self respecting & human dignity" ... and before pining for a "community where everyone just did the right thing without haggle".   Are not those thoughts springing from the same source that i have expressed?

But, yes, i certainly confess to having felt that isolation quite keenly at various phases of my life.  In P2 where i was so integrally connected to that community yet was challenged day to day with it's changing ... and wandering the streets and neighborhoods of San Francisco perceiving their isolations and feeling that through my own insanity.  You may have seen some of that from outside of me ... in my insides was churning this mixed media saga.  and, no, i don't expect you to understand that, i don't understand it myself. 

but as to "collective action to remedy it" ... of that i have no knowledge  ... and certainly no plan to propose one  .

Mark de LA says
Before I read this posting in Facebook this AM I was wondering in silence what the real purpose of an economy might be & what it would look like stated as principles.

  • self respecting & human dignity in vocation providing goods & services to each other?
  • maximum creativity & freedom to achieve the above
  • achieve a synergy of individuals via the principle of division of labor - less mechanical than the industrial revolution idea of it
  • tbd ...later

Mark de LA says
So I guess there is nothing to do except emote a bit.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-09 07:34:05 17075
M1g0r 2014-02-08 22:25:22 17075
So I guess there is nothing to do except emote a bit.

well i wouldn't put it that way ... then i would have no motive to come here and run my mouth ... then it would be just a private affair ... which is the problem we started with.  rather i keep trying to become aware of the predicament ... to understand its edges, its properties, and to formulate my attitudes towards its be ing perhaps so i can navigate my be ing relative there to ... perhaps even to grasp and express it to myself and to others.
Still looking around for some value of "it" - eh?
Holden Caulfield couldn't find the handle, remember?

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-08 10:45:22 17075
seth 2014-02-08 09:57:50 17075
source: me on that facebook item
I think it is deucedly difficult to find community in modern urban life. There just is something about modern society that tends to isolate families and individuals within their own separate abodes and lives. This has always bothered me. Now I am sure some people actually do find community with their friends and neighbors. But I ... and a large class of people and families like me ... do not. It seems there must be something wrong with our society that there are so very many of us who don't naturally find it.
...
I suspect that voluntary also requires personal responsibility on the part of those who want to bond together in a community.  Forcing you to do it by community organizers may not be the right direction, eh? Project II did a good job at one time & you & I were part of that! Invite people you meet & like over for dinner, if you want to bond to otherness, some evening .. etc.


oh i totally agree .   nobody is going to want the government or any other institution or organization to force or entice us into communities or communes of their definition.

i'm just trying to fly up the flagpole that there may be a way to dink with our awareness and habits such that communities would naturally happen more often.  Certainly "inviting people over to dinner" is a symptom of it happening and here perhaps is another one.  The trick is to get it to happen more and more such that people and families would not be so isolated in their abodes and lives.

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-08 11:25:56 17075
There are all kinds of communities in the Israel Kubbutzim - not all of them living together groups.
Maybe get some ideas in the article at Wikipedia.


i don't seen any reason why communities must needs isolate themselves from the rest of society.  i think a lot of communes, and perhaps even those kubbutzs, isolate themselves so as to increase the bonding within the community.  i think the stronger the wall between a group and the outside world, the stronger the bond is between individuals withing the group.  that may well be almost a natural pattern ... i don't know.  something to think about ...

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-08 11:59:42 17075
seth 2014-02-08 11:24:22 17075
M1g0r 2014-02-08 10:45:22 17075
seth 2014-02-08 09:57:50 17075
source: me on that facebook item
I think it is deucedly difficult to find community in modern urban life. There just is something about modern society that tends to isolate families and individuals within their own separate abodes and lives. This has always bothered me. Now I am sure some people actually do find community with their friends and neighbors. But I ... and a large class of people and families like me ... do not. It seems there must be something wrong with our society that there are so very many of us who don't naturally find it.
...
I suspect that voluntary also requires personal responsibility on the part of those who want to bond together in a community.  Forcing you to do it by community organizers may not be the right direction, eh? Project II did a good job at one time & you & I were part of that! Invite people you meet & like over for dinner, if you want to bond to otherness, some evening .. etc.


oh i totally agree .   nobody is going to want the government or any other institution or organization to force or entice us into communities or communes of their definition.

i'm just trying to fly up the flagpole that there may be a way to dink with our awareness and habits such that communities would naturally happen more often.  Certainly "inviting people over to dinner" is a symptom of it happening and here perhaps is another one.  The trick is to get it to happen more and more such that people and families would not be so isolated in their abodes and lives.
With all the social meeting software & web sites I can't see any problem satisfying your need to not be so isolated. Then too, if you are just into kinky sex with polar bears you might be isolated just a little bit longer.


well i don't see any reason (or "problem") that communities don't happen either.  but demonstrably they do not ... at least not for a vast number of us. 

also let's not confuse a community of telecommunicating people with a community of f2f personal interactions.  i think they are quite different animals. 

... but then the question emerges, why does not the telecommunicating communities (which are easy to find and join) interact in more depth?

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-08 13:58:37 17075
M1g0r 2014-02-08 12:23:38 17075
The individual versus the collection - some of us value our privacy to one degree or not more than others. If you feel the need go for it. I suspect any impediment is all there with you somehow. 17065 may be helpful. Maybe there is an app there already.


whatever.  your advise seems to be much more about just me personally than my thought ever was ... that seems to be a pattern that frequently happens here. 
Maybe because I don't see it as a general problem at all.  I see no need for collective action to remedy anything. That's why


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-09 08:53:47 17075
M1g0r 2014-02-09 07:49:24 17075
seth 2014-02-09 07:34:05 17075
M1g0r 2014-02-08 22:25:22 17075
So I guess there is nothing to do except emote a bit.

well i wouldn't put it that way ... then i would have no motive to come here and run my mouth ... then it would be just a private affair ... which is the problem we started with.  rather i keep trying to become aware of the predicament ... to understand its edges, its properties, and to formulate my attitudes towards its be ing perhaps so i can navigate my be ing relative there to ... perhaps even to grasp and express it to myself and to others.
Still looking around for some value of "it" - eh?

Holden Caulfield couldn't find the handle, remember?

well, sorry, i do not see how what i said and am doing implies anything to do with finding value.  that may well be your pecurlar problem or one that PR has addressed to you ... not mine, i assure you.  i haven't asked that question of myself since, .... oh let me see if i remember .... er, the last time you posed it to me.

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