logic is great, survival is better


What logic does is to conger a ideal model of absolute certainty.  Which, of course, is fascinating to play with.  Where things get wiggy is where people point to that and then point to the world we experience as human beings and judge that the latter should be like the former.  Well it is not! ... demonstrably not.

incidentally survival is nothing less than be ing. 

Tags

  1. bozometry
  2. ing
  3. munge
  4. item 17076
  5. inane
  6. logic
  7. certainty
  8. EmptyFuckingHashtag

Comments


Seth says
seth 2014-02-12 12:23:51 17083
M1g0r 2014-02-12 11:25:59 17083
seth 2014-02-12 11:18:34 17083
incidentally survival is nothing short of just be ing.  to be, or not to be? ... survival provides the answer in the positive.  it does not necessarily imply eat or be eaten. 
Survival happens until it doesn't! It doesn't make it better than logic or anything else.

... sure it does, if you imagine that you are actually living in your ideal model where A == A absolutely, and do something accordingly which causes your demise and hence do not "live on", then logic did not surve you very well, now did it?  To have acted against that such that you would have survived, me thinks, would have been much better.  Simple, not necessary to over think.  But yes i can appreciate it means that you might need to look at the background first and move with your thinking relative to that as fixed to you, before looking at the foreground of certainty that you most always start with. 

.. hmmm ... i wonder, is that a thought Mark is afraid of thinking?

Seth says
seth 2014-02-12 12:24:12 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-12 12:18:52 17084
Sometimes Seth is a liar!
in this case not.
hmmm ... if you're going to start using bozometry as a tag, why not just rely on  the group name Seth, as anything i write me thinks is going to hit yous as "bozometry" ... i mean, after all, it is what i do.   that way it saves you the effort of tagging my items, and me the effort of deleting you tags.


Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-13 07:27:46 17084
T said it best - absurd! You can't compare those two things.

Well if by the two things she means (1) a idealized model with absolute certainty and (2) human life the way we experience it,  then T and I are in complete agreement.  We may well be saying the same thing.  They are not comparable  ... and the the first should not be applied to the second .  ... but i am not quite sure what she is saying "absurd" to.

M1g0r says
seth 2014-02-13 07:50:14 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-13 07:27:46 17084
T said it best - absurd! You can't compare those two things.

Well if by the two things she means (1) a idealized model with absolute certainty and (2) human life the way we experience it,  then T and I are in complete agreement.  We may well be saying the same thing.  They are not comparable  ... and the the first should not be applied to the second .  ... but i am not quite sure what she is saying "absurd" to.
Nope! In true BØZØ Ø style you munged in punt formation!
She was just referring to logic & suvival - the topic absurdity!



Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-13 08:02:39 17084
seth 2014-02-13 07:50:14 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-13 07:27:46 17084
T said it best - absurd! You can't compare those two things.

Well if by the two things she means (1) a idealized model with absolute certainty and (2) human life the way we experience it,  then T and I are in complete agreement.  We may well be saying the same thing.  They are not comparable  ... and the the first should not be applied to the second .  ... but i am not quite sure what she is saying "absurd" to.
Nope! In true BØZØ Ø style you munged in punt formation!
She was just referring to logic & suvival - the topic absurdity!



ok, that is the problem with using an "it" with insufficient context to guess its reference.

But, strangely enough i still agree.  Logic and survival are categorically different and cannot be compared directly as such.   In this case i have granted myself artistic license.  However, in my more lengthy description later (see above), i made no such error... or at least i haven't found it yet.   Now i admit even that description is a bit convoluted ...  and so i have simplified it here ... 
"Logic is great, survival is better"  means:

Imagine that you think you are actually living in an ideal model where A == A always, absolutely.  Now suppose  you do something using that model which causes you to die.  In that case logic did not serve you well.  To have acted instead such that you would have survived, would have been much better.   

It is simple, there is no necessity to over think it.

So, T, do you still think that is absurd?

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-13 10:30:58 17084
Seth: ...
No, of course not, silly .But every time i run across a situation where an A is at the same time not an A, i conclude that the first A did not refer to the same thing as the second A.
... proving nothing except loss of focus to believe you label both A & some other A' correctly. Maybe ADHD? The absurdity of your topic exemplified!


well where it was i who came up with that particular A == A proposition, your are absolutely right, i would have lost focus. But frequently these A == A propositions are presented to me from outside.  In which case it would have been the mind in which i swim which had lost focus relative to my mind.  I don't see where it matters, in any case the resolution happens when the difference between the first and the second is discovered.

Strangely enough there was a far more interesting objection that you could have made.

Seth says
seth 2014-02-13 09:02:42 17084
source: mark says
Abusrdity -> infinity may wrap around and find Bozo living in an Ideal Model.  I'll wait though. Using a coat hanger to wipe your ass may be another example of using the wrong tool for the right reason or the right tool for the wrong reason; reason bei-ng a nice thingy.  Munge onward!

doesn't sound to me like something T would say.

source: mark
T already brushed your absurdity aside, sorry!

with your help, no doubt.  but i am not really sure what you are sorry about.

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-13 09:49:00 17084
seth 2014-02-13 09:05:04 17084
seth 2014-02-13 09:02:42 17084
source: mark says
Abusrdity -> infinity may wrap around and find Bozo living in an Ideal Model.  I'll wait though. Using a coat hanger to wipe your ass may be another example of using the wrong tool for the right reason or the right tool for the wrong reason; reason bei-ng a nice thingy.  Munge onward!

doesn't sound to me like something T would say.

source: mark
T already brushed your absurdity aside, sorry!

with your help, no doubt.  but i am not really sure what you are sorry about.
She drew her own conclusion (sorry not yours).  She's pretty good at not wanting to think about irrelevant shit.   BTW, still thinking about irrelevant shit, do you parse through real world situations and say to yourself:
  • Hmmm....
  • should I use logic in this situation or ..
  • should I survive?
  • nope! I don't either
  • I suspect you are still tilting windmills in your mind in a joust with the ghost of your dead father - a logician, mathematician & occultist of the first caliber

No, of course not, silly .

But every time i run across a situation where an A is at the same time not an A, i conclude that the first A did not refer to the same thing as the second A.

Seth says
incidentally re the inane

it just occurred to me that the concept in this particular 17084 is just so very simple that it can be felt as inane ... er ... which, strangely enough, i actually take as a good thing

It then occurred to me that quite possibly when i discover for myself something so simple that i should have always known it, others, who perhaps have always did known it, will think it foolish.

Now here is where things get not just a little bit complicated.  There is this peaky predicament of my walls and their walls.  For if the one who always knew it, had forgotten it, then discovered it anew, they would surley have had the same good feeling towards its certainty yet simplicity as did I.  Er, well maybe, maybe not.  But consider the situation where they did not discover it themselves in their inside,  but rather it came from their outside, from their otherness ... but nonetheless it had to be felt by them as true (by virtue of its ilative force) regardless of its foolish simplicity.  I claim in that very case the walls themselves may become more persuasive than even the simplicity of the thing realized.  So that would explain why they would feel towards  such an proposition as  inane and rather than just true, or simple, or perhaps simply true, ... or perhaps even simple but surprising and true.

M1g0r says
Are empty tags a sign of desperation? Maybe the ing got lost.  I went to bed thinking about the amusement that ing was a word because it was CyEnglish.  Did that disappear? A problem I had with that besides the obvious was that then be ing would be whang and sum boo whang neh.
be hai boo.

wall is still part of ngai whang hi - my fault for not understanding or getting you, eh?


Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 08:20:27 17084
Are empty tags a sign of desperation? Maybe the ing got lost.  I went to bed thinking about the amusement that ing was a word because it was CyEnglish.  Did that disappear? A problem I had with that besides the obvious was that then be ing would be whang and sum boo whang neh.
be hai boo.

wall is still part of ngai whang hi - my fault for not understanding or getting you, eh?


empty tags (whatever they might be) are certainly not a sign of desperation.  this item has now (perhaps not then) been associated with the word "ing" because that word was was discussed in the comments.   I did that the normal way of affixing ing to the item ... perhaps i refereed to that tag room prior to affixing the tag to any items ... i am not totally sure ... sometimes i do loose focus.

as to the rest of it, i am not so very sure that there even needs to be a "fault" involved here and certainly am not going to go looking for one now .



M1g0r says
  • First sentence What logic does is to conger a ideal model of absolute certainty.
  • is a personal thingy of Bozo
  • ... for some value of the verb conjure and
  • Not held by at least one other - ME!
  • Logic is a tool & still is dependent on input.
  • Formal logic extracts conclusions from the premises & information supplied via language so as to uncover consistency & content not obvious a priori
  • & within the capability of expression through language;
  • most of what is within the mind not being that kind of such stuff
  • certainty is something else & perhaps absolute certainty is of the realm of Buddha & Nirvana

M1g0r says
seth 2014-02-14 09:04:22 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 08:20:27 17084
Are empty tags a sign of desperation? Maybe the ing got lost.  I went to bed thinking about the amusement that ing was a word because it was CyEnglish.  Did that disappear? A problem I had with that besides the obvious was that then be ing would be whang and sum boo whang neh.
be hai boo.

wall is still part of ngai whang hi - my fault for not understanding or getting you, eh?


empty tags (whatever they might be) are certainly not a sign of desperation.  this item has now (perhaps not then) been associated with the word "ing" because that word was was discussed in the comments.   I did that the normal way of affixing ing to the item ... perhaps i refereed to that tag room prior to affixing the tag to any items ... i am not totally sure ... sometimes i do loose focus.

as to the rest of it, i am not so very sure that there even needs to be a "fault" involved here and certainly am not going to go looking for one now .


I tagged it ing.   If you tagged it it would not have a check mark would it?

Seth says
seth 2014-02-14 06:11:26 17084
incidentally re the inane

it just occurred to me that the concept in this particular 17084 is just so very simple that it can be felt as inane ... er ... which, strangely enough, i actually take as a good thing

It then occurred to me that quite possibly when i discover for myself something so simple that i should have always known it, others, who perhaps have always did known it, will think it foolish.

Now here is where things get not just a little bit complicated.  There is this peaky predicament of my walls and their walls.   For if the one who always knew it, had forgotten it, then discovered it anew, they would surley have had the same good feeling towards its certainty yet simplicity as did I.  Er, well maybe, maybe not.  But consider the situation where they did not discover it themselves in their inside,  but rather it came from their outside, from their otherness ... but nonetheless it had to be felt by them as true (by virtue of its ilative force) regardless of its foolish simplicity.  I claim in that very case the walls themselves may become more persuasive than even the simplicity of the thing realized.  So that would explain why they would feel towards  such an proposition as  inane and rather than just true, or simple, or perhaps simply true, ... or perhaps even simple but surprising and true.

ok i fixed the erroneous link above to walls.

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:12:28 17084
seth 2014-02-14 09:04:22 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 08:20:27 17084
Are empty tags a sign of desperation? Maybe the ing got lost.  I went to bed thinking about the amusement that ing was a word because it was CyEnglish.  Did that disappear? A problem I had with that besides the obvious was that then be ing would be whang and sum boo whang neh.
be hai boo.

wall is still part of ngai whang hi - my fault for not understanding or getting you, eh?


empty tags (whatever they might be) are certainly not a sign of desperation.  this item has now (perhaps not then) been associated with the word "ing" because that word was was discussed in the comments.   I did that the normal way of affixing ing to the item ... perhaps i refereed to that tag room prior to affixing the tag to any items ... i am not totally sure ... sometimes i do loose focus.

as to the rest of it, i am not so very sure that there even needs to be a "fault" involved here and certainly am not going to go looking for one now .


I tagged it ing.   If you tagged it it would not have a check mark would it?

Oh, so you did .   ... and thank you for that, it certainly did need that association.

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:25:58 17084
seth 2014-02-14 09:19:12 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:13:47 17084
seth 2014-02-14 08:55:06 17084
seth 2014-02-14 06:11:26 17084
incidentally re the inane

it just occurred to me that the concept in this particular 17084 is just so very simple that it can be felt as inane ... er ... which, strangely enough, i actually take as a good thing

It then occurred to me that quite possibly when i discover for myself something so simple that i should have always known it, others, who perhaps have always did known it, will think it foolish.

Now here is where things get not just a little bit complicated.  There is this peaky predicament of my walls and their walls.   For if the one who always knew it, had forgotten it, then discovered it anew, they would surley have had the same good feeling towards its certainty yet simplicity as did I.  Er, well maybe, maybe not.  But consider the situation where they did not discover it themselves in their inside,  but rather it came from their outside, from their otherness ... but nonetheless it had to be felt by them as true (by virtue of its ilative force) regardless of its foolish simplicity.  I claim in that very case the walls themselves may become more persuasive than even the simplicity of the thing realized.  So that would explain why they would feel towards  such an proposition as  inane and rather than just true, or simple, or perhaps simply true, ... or perhaps even simple but surprising and true.

ok i fixed the erroneous link above to walls.
... the last 3 tags as of this now writing are empty!

yep, no items have ever been tagged into those rooms.   this, of course, is not a bug, or for that matter anything to worry about.  understanding  the sentence in which those references occurred should explain the emptiness totally ... if it does not and it is important, please let me know, and i will go into even more tedious detail in that regard.   in any case, thanks for noticing.
obscurity hiding behind an empty argument makes it all congruent.

huh?   What specifically is the empty argument here?  

Incidentally referring to associations which do not yet exist is a common practice ... and very useful i might add.  Is that obscurity ... hmmm ... i really do not know ... i suppose it would depend on the particulars of the case.  In the case of my project i decided to write down some pixels before the pattern was even recognized.  That may have been what you saw ... i don't really know ... all that kind of stuff is in your mind, not mine.

M1g0r says
seth 2014-02-14 09:19:12 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:13:47 17084
seth 2014-02-14 08:55:06 17084
seth 2014-02-14 06:11:26 17084
incidentally re the inane

it just occurred to me that the concept in this particular 17084 is just so very simple that it can be felt as inane ... er ... which, strangely enough, i actually take as a good thing

It then occurred to me that quite possibly when i discover for myself something so simple that i should have always known it, others, who perhaps have always did known it, will think it foolish.

Now here is where things get not just a little bit complicated.  There is this peaky predicament of my walls and their walls.   For if the one who always knew it, had forgotten it, then discovered it anew, they would surley have had the same good feeling towards its certainty yet simplicity as did I.  Er, well maybe, maybe not.  But consider the situation where they did not discover it themselves in their inside,  but rather it came from their outside, from their otherness ... but nonetheless it had to be felt by them as true (by virtue of its ilative force) regardless of its foolish simplicity.  I claim in that very case the walls themselves may become more persuasive than even the simplicity of the thing realized.  So that would explain why they would feel towards  such an proposition as  inane and rather than just true, or simple, or perhaps simply true, ... or perhaps even simple but surprising and true.

ok i fixed the erroneous link above to walls.
... the last 3 tags as of this now writing are empty!

yep, no items have ever been tagged into those rooms.   this, of course, is not a bug, or for that matter anything to worry about.  understanding  the sentence in which those references occurred should explain the emptiness totally ... if it does not and it is important, please let me know, and i will go into even more tedious detail in that regard.   in any case, thanks for noticing.
obscurity hiding behind an empty argument makes it all congruent.

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:10:22 17084
  • certainty is something else & perhaps absolute certainty is of the realm of Buddha & Nirvana

incidentally i do appreciate this comment.  in it, perhaps for the first time we arrive at what i think is our basic real difference in the way we think about logic.  Here is my take on that difference ...
source: mark above
certainty is something else & perhaps absolute certainty is of the realm of Buddha & Nirvana
Well certainty is the first law of logic, A == A.  [also see comment immediately above at 2014-02-14 10:49:55 clarifying this]

"The realm of Buddha and Nirvana" is something else. 

I think we should focus on that difference.   Perhaps even clearly see it to the point of just saying, well ok, you are looking at the trunk, and i the ear, and that's why we see the elephant differently.  Now wouldn't that be fun .


Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:56:56 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:52:46 17084
Makes the same sense as an #EmptyFuckingHashtag .


well yeah it is very similar.  thing is people misuse tagging when they make an association that is so very subjective that it will almost certainly never ever be used again.  i hate it when they do that.  Thing is, if nothing is ever put in a tag room (except the one item tagged subjectively as above), then for me the act of association itself is in fact an error ... or put differently a mis-thought.  Me, i do try not to mis-think ... i used to do it more frequently and thought nothing of it ... but now i like thoughts far more than juicy mis-thoughts.  But that is perhaps just me ... i'm betting that some other people resent me thinking i am doing it .

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:10:22 17084
  • First sentence What logic does is to conger a ideal model of absolute certainty.
  • is a personal thingy of Bozo
  • ... for some value of the verb conjure and
  • Not held by at least one other - ME!
  • Logic is a tool & still is dependent on input.
  • Formal logic extracts conclusions from the premises & information supplied via language so as to uncover consistency & content not obvious a priori
  • & within the capability of expression through language;
  • most of what is within the mind not being that kind of such stuff
  • certainty is something else & perhaps absolute certainty is of the realm of Buddha & Nirvana

  1. Well initially i wrote the first sentence using the verb "invent" instead of "conger" but intentionally changed it to conger just because of its connotations of making something up out of thin air.  
  2. Fact is that logic was invented by men ... starting with perhaps Socrates and advancing in Feng and Boole and Russell and Church and Quine and even CFR to name but a few that i have personally studied.  It is hard for me to conceive of how a mind would be that would not believe that historical fact. 
  3. Now A == A is the first and foundational " law" of logic. 
  4. That law forces everything that is represented in the language of logic to be absolutely certain.  
  5. if you break that law, then you have very definitely entered a world which is quite outside of the ideal model which logic creates for you.
  6. That is not just me ... please by all means confirm those sentences with any master of formal logic who will honestly converse with you.  I have myself done that to some extent, though more as a listener than a talker.  
  7. "Formal logic extracts conclusions from the premises & information supplied via language so as to uncover consistency & content not obvious a priori" <--- true sentence
  8. "most of what is within the mind not being that kind of such stuff" <-- also true sentence (see 5 above)
source: mark above
certainty is something else & perhaps absolute certainty is of the realm of Buddha & Nirvana
Well certainty is the first law of logic, A == A. 

"The realm of Buddha and Nirvana" is something else. 

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 10:17:32 17084
seth 2014-02-14 10:09:06 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:56:56 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:52:46 17084
Makes the same sense as an #EmptyFuckingHashtag .


well yeah it is very similar.  thing is people misuse tagging when they make an association that is so very subjective that it will almost certainly never ever be used again.  i hate it when they do that.  Thing is, if nothing is ever put in a tag room (except the one item tagged subjectively as above), then for me the act of association itself is in fact an error ... or put differently a mis-thought.  Me, i do try not to mis-think ... i used to do it more frequently and thought nothing of it ... but now i like thoughts far more than juicy mis-thoughts.  But that is perhaps just me ... i'm betting that some other people resent me thinking i am doing it .
be the first to populate it with your wisdom!


well reading your command along with its association of #emptyfuckinghashtag and your laugh makes me feel that you do actually resent me thinking that way.   oh well.  no problem though ... i probably can't anyway ... so i do appreciate your lack of confidence in me.

strangely enough, however, the practice of trying to always write true sentences, verifying URL's, and references and making sure that they are persistent within the context of my discourse (A==A), and practicing what i would like to call radical honesty is something that me thinks the world truly needs now.  more about that perhaps later.  But am i the person to spread that into the population ... i seriously doubt ... same laugh .



Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 10:49:55 17084
Certainty & the so-called (by you) first law of logic are 2 separate things. They are separate words if nothing else.


yep they are.  i use it here with not just a little bit of license ... cut me some slack.   But fact is, it is the rule, A==A, which creates the certainty we feel in logical conclusions.  That is ... er, if we have actually followed that rule. 

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-14 20:42:29 17084
seth 2014-02-14 20:10:12 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-14 09:10:22 17084
  • certainty is something else & perhaps absolute certainty is of the realm of Buddha & Nirvana

incidentally i do appreciate this comment.  in it, perhaps for the first time we arrive at what i think is our basic real difference in the way we think about logic.  Here is my take on that difference ...
source: mark above
certainty is something else & perhaps absolute certainty is of the realm of Buddha & Nirvana
Well certainty is the first law of logic, A == A.  [also see comment immediately above at 2014-02-14 10:49:55 clarifying this]

"The realm of Buddha and Nirvana" is something else. 

I think we should focus on that difference.   Perhaps even clearly see it to the point of just saying, well ok, you are looking at the trunk, and i the ear, and that's why we see the elephant differently.  Now wouldn't that be fun .

can't have truth with a half-life of the length of a bozoton of time observing it & have any kind of certainty in my world

well ... ... er, strangely enough, .... i agree with you there !

The trouble is that has nothing to do with logic.  You see in logic the certainty is given from the git go .. and it is given by its first law ... A==A.  That is the point.  It is not bozo's world, or "your world" ... it is logic's world .... i call it logic's ideal model. 



M1g0r says
Enjoy doubt , praise doubt, discard logic & join d'A in the world of feeling moving the thoton so as to get another feeling closer to the one you want leaving out anything you do not want to look at maybe attracting good feelings about yourself.
Enjoy!

P.S. (you can discard this one, but none of us survive in the end! Maybe what we have here is an absurd, irrational comparison with none of the above (neither) as the solution)



Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-16 09:55:36 17084
seth 2014-02-15 21:57:10 17084
seth 2014-02-15 16:13:41 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-15 12:27:13 17084
2014-02-15 12:19:56 17084
Mr. Pragmatic - you have heard of DEATH haven't you?

Yes, of course, .... why do you ask?
oh, my bad i thought we were talking about logic, so i read "transitive".   anyway death and survival and kind of two different things ... the first relates to and individual ... the second relates to what does go on.  
Maybe stimulate a thought yet ..


Well it did cause me to ponder "if A survives B, and B survives C, does not A survive C" 

To which my mind went wiggy woggy woo.   But there are dozens of ways to structure survival as a transitive relationship .. at which point i give up.

Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-15 09:28:19 17084
Enjoy doubt , praise doubt, discard logic & join d'A in the world of feeling moving the thoton so as to get another feeling closer to the one you want leaving out anything you do not want to look at maybe attracting good feelings about yourself.
Enjoy!

P.S. (you can discard this one, but none of us survive in the end! Maybe what we have here is an absurd, irrational comparison with none of the above (neither) as the solution)



Well there is no enjoying doubt or praising it or discarding logic going on here.   We all love clarity, things that don't contradict themselves, things that we know with confidence, and even things of which we are certain.  That includes me ... i am sure it includes d'A ... and does it not include you as well?

In my world i do move to get good feelings and to attract them ... even ones about myself.  I rather do think that is good for my survival and the survival of those with whom i interact.  I think it would be stupid and possibly even deadly not to.  There does seem to be a plethora of bad feelings and contradictions in the world i experience, i need not seek them out, and have no intention to do so, for they do so seem to be in endless supply.   

Eliminating contradictions inside and outside of me, and harmonizing myself with my society and my environment does help me survive.  Somtimes that does amount to just changeing a bad feeling into a good one, and moving to situations where  that is likely to happen.  For you see, logic is great, but where contridictions cannot be resolved, merely surviving them is quite a bit better. No absurbity here ... just a practical way to live.

Seth says
source: mark
.. & yet survival is just transitory.
Well, ok it might be depending on how one would structure the relationship.  It does have to be a relationship to even be transitory after all.

Transitory deals with what may have been the fourth law of logic:  "if A, then B".  Which is transitory.  Also the "A is a B" relationship which forms the basis of a logical syllogism is transitory.  Survival is not logical at all ... er, at least not in my experience ....

Sorry, i cannot guess what the "yet" or the "just" means in your response.

M1g0r says
seth 2014-02-16 20:19:43 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-16 09:55:36 17084
seth 2014-02-15 21:57:10 17084
seth 2014-02-15 16:13:41 17084
M1g0r 2014-02-15 12:27:13 17084
2014-02-15 12:19:56 17084
Mr. Pragmatic - you have heard of DEATH haven't you?

Yes, of course, .... why do you ask?
oh, my bad i thought we were talking about logic, so i read "transitive".   anyway death and survival and kind of two different things ... the first relates to and individual ... the second relates to what does go on.  
Maybe stimulate a thought yet ..


Well it did cause me to ponder "if A survives B, and B survives C, does not A survive C" 

To which my mind went wiggy woggy woo.   But there are dozens of ways to structure survival as a transitive relationship .. at which point i give up.
Maybe focus upon what aspect of survival you are talking about first  & maybe not change your mind about what such is half way through the process, eh?
Etymology Dict.: ...
survive (v.) mid-15c. (implied in surviving), "to outlive, continue in existence after the death of another," originally in the legal (inheritance) sense, from Anglo-French survivre, Old French souvivre (12c., Modern French survivre), from Latin supervivere "live beyond, live longer than," from super "over, beyond" (see super-) + vivere "to live" (see vivid). Intransitive sense "to live on" is from late 15c. Related: Survived; surviving.
...
  • Page 24 of BC could help
  • Use the model...
  • All of the property of A is some of the property of B ..... etc.
  • No need to go wiggy woggy unless that is the purpose/destination of your train of thought/feeling that you bought the ticket for

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