Trembeling: One of my peculair problems


i must confess i sometimes experience a physical problem when interacting within a group.  I say physical because it manifests as a shaking of my hands and an inability to talk without a quivering voice.  It is not unlike the physical manifestations of anger.  Perhaps it is anger ... i don't know.  It happens when i am opposing an element in the group that i feel in my heart is going the wrong way for the group.  It makes it so that i cannot express myself clearly to the group.  It is ducently frustrating.

Tags

  1. item 17088
  2. contradiction
  3. frustration
  4. behavior
  5. anger
  6. group behavior

Comments


Mark de LA says
Perhaps transforming the trembling into excitement via NLP could change things if you wanted changing to occur i.e. holding the nervousness in the context of excitement.
Maybe not.
In my final job in a drug store I watched the toys department from the back room to catch kids stealing stuff - it was quite rampant because they could go out the front door with the stuff in their pockets or they could escape out the side door into the attached supermarket.  I noticed once I caught them something like what you describe occurred in my own nervous system. I was about 18 at the time. It showed up in that context several times. Perhaps I felt a bit wrong busting kids in their sub teens. There was a dichotomy in there somewhere.  It eventually went away.
I like Peter Ralston's ideas about consciousness dispels fear etc.  Especially that quote in the last part of the Art of Effortless Power - (imho a little practice required) -
"The consciousness commands and the body obeys".



Seth says
Yes, being aware of what is happening and transforming the trembling into excitement or confident action is certainly the goal here .

The big thing i want to note here is that in all of these situations there is a significant contradiction between my internal intentions and the intentions of the others i am interacting with.  If the contradictions are resolved, so are the trembling.  The bigger the stake for me, the bigger the contradiction, the bigger the trembling.  Perhaps call it anger ... different people have different reactions.  It is a physical manifestation of a mental being.  Nothing really new here, just perhaps awareness of what is happening.  When i first noticed the physical shaking, i did not realize its cause ... i thought i might just have been developing a tremor.

Seth says

notice it is not just me here ... it is congruence between me and others ... maybe more like chunyee ... you would be better at choosing the the ming.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-03-20 10:10:10 17088
Yes, being aware of what is happening and transforming the trembling into excitement or confident action is certainly the goal here .

The big thing i want to note here is that in all of these situations there is a significant contradiction between my internal intentions and the intentions of the others i am interacting with.  If the contradictions are resolved, so are the trembling.  The bigger the stake for me, the bigger the contradiction, the bigger the trembling.  Perhaps call it anger ... different people have different reactions.  It is a physical manifestation of a mental being.  Nothing really new here, just perhaps awareness of what is happening.  When i first noticed the physical shaking, i did not realize its cause ... i thought i might just have been developing a tremor.
The contestants in the American Idol & The Voice experience a lot of it & it throws them off pitch etc. Tony Robbins in the firewalk weekend had us shift the submodalities of excitement & such from the context of fear to the context of sex by moving location from the stomach or heart areas, wherever location occurred to the groin area - location predominately being the main difference.


Seth says
Einai 2014-03-20 13:27:05 17088
HUH? nice munge of cartoon thinking, though!

Well, ok, let me see if i can clarify ...

Mark: Society, culture, government & even humanity are abstractions.  One has to cognize them into being through language.

Seth:  So i said the cartoon to show you what you had just done.


Sure when we make up signs, er we "cognize them into being through language", then when we use those signs we are not talking about the signs themselves, rather we are talking about what the signs point to. 

_______________________________________________________________________

Mark: Having done so they reflect the self that cognized them into being - again a reflection.

Seth:  Well sure there is a whole lot of the sign maker integral to the kind of signs he makes.  Still and all when people use his signs, they use them to talk about what the signs point to and not the sign maker.   Talking about the sign maker instead of what the sign was pointing to would be a change of topic and quite confusing, eh?

Seth says
source: mark
You assumed it was stage fright.  If I meant stage fight, I would have said so. Tony did not say it was a cure for stage fright either. Must be you own munge.

Nerves when you are performing, perhaps throwing off your performance, is called "stage fright".  I have experienced that and it is not this.   Fear of stepping on hot coals is another fear that i could easily avoid experiencing just according to Tony Robbins suggestions.

Actually I doubt seriously that this is fear at all.  It feels more like anger or frustration.  I know when it is there and i know when it is not there.  I think i know the kind of situations that  prompt it.  Certainly the intention is to transform it and move to a more useful emotion.  Awareness of the cause and the effect is the first step.

My approach now is to understand the contradictions themselves ... both from my point of view and the point of view of the others ... then form a practical attitude that allows me to either effectively act to resolve the contradiction or at least transform my emotions to accept it. 

If you stop accusing me of munging, perhaps you will be able to hear what i am saying.

Seth says
Einai 2014-03-20 11:09:53 17088
seth 2014-03-20 10:51:53 17088
source: mark
I don 't know about the others in the picture .. I mentioned that before in the rude, but applicable , thingy about gathering turds for the back pocket.  Society, culture, government & even humanity are abstractions.  One has to cognize them into being through language. Having done so they reflect the self that cognized them into being - again a reflection.

Maybe kyn  applies, meh?
 
Well i assure you that "the others in the picture" are not mere abstractions conjured by me into existence by some reflection of myself. 

... er, i look on that scienceficioney meme as just a story people tell to each other so they don't have to cope with the facts of otherness.  please don't expect that kind of confusion to catch on with me  .
I am not confused! Maybe the confusion is between something tangible & an abstraction for you - who knows?

...

I think this is what is happening.

Mark de LA says
HUH? nice munge of cartoon thinking, though!

Seth says
source: mark
The contestants in the American Idol & The Voice experience a lot of it & it throws them off pitch etc. Tony Robbins in the firewalk weekend had us shift the submodalities of excitement & such from the context of fear to the context of sex by moving location from the stomach or heart areas, wherever location occurred to the groin area - location predominately being the main difference.

... I really don't think that i am talking about stage fright here ... though it might have the same kind of physical manifestations.  If you are munging this syndrome with stage fright, me thinks you will be totally missing the point.  And quite possibly you have never experienced this particular shaking caused by contradiction from others ... or if you have that you identified it as such.  But in any case, i assure you that when it happened i was in no way afraid to express myself within that group. 

Also, please note that i have identified a similar manifestations (though quite different) where i privately my deeds (or lack of them) confronts my own intended aspirations.  Are those stage fright related too?   No they are not.

Again, you are quite different inside than am I ... you may not have the same manifestations as I or perhaps have noticed them as such. 

Mark de LA says
Such would benefit then by giving being to honesty in the present at one of those meetings & expressing yourself there at the time.
Good Luck!



Seth says
Einai 2014-03-21 08:31:24 17088
  Why not reset & actually talk in detail about the trembling experience itself. What was a specific moment when it happened? - Renton Coop? The blind or disabilities stuff at the library?, your participation in the political domain with the Democrat caucuses, or ??? - What point did you want to get across? What did you want to share? Can you remember enough to try to get that across to me? How important to you was that point? - How much passion was there ? What outcome did you want? How did you know or what kind of anticipation of audience response did you have? What was that? What was the actual response if you went ahead & expressed yourself? etc.)

Yep ... those are the kind of details that shed light on the trembling.   This blog is public here and what i say here could have unintended consequences with the people i am working with, consequently i won't be going into the specific details of those events here.  You should be able to trust that i have been asking those kind of questions myself and answers have been emerging as i get closer and closer to understanding the trembling.  But thanks for apparently understanding the true nature of this particular item .

Seth says
Einai 2014-03-21 11:16:35 17088
Honesty might be a stretch for you if you delete some parts of my comments & respond to the one you want. & delete the original.

only thing i deleted today was your response to the cartoon which, quite honestly, was just a provocation to rwg ... and quite off topic here.

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