A == A aka Indetity

This is the first law of logic ... also called the law of identity.  It says that within a logical system when we refer to a thing one place with a name, it is the same thing as when we refer to it in another place with the same name.  That is said more precisely using the language of formal logic as in the picture here.


Tags

  1. identity
  2. identical
  3. logic

Comments


Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-15 09:58:14 17092
Even though you may hate it & it probably has nothing to do in your own mind with logic , both Rudolf Steiner & GW gave NAME an ultimate cosmic context:


Well there are lots of goodies on the bottom of the Chameleon pages ... i have frequently thought that was where GW "hid" his goodies in plain sight and understandable language.  You are here referring to "Let us learn what it means to call each and every thing in the Universe by its own right name."

I too find naming important.  It is almost magical to call something just the very best name possible.  And to not stop with just the name but also to make everything associated with it the very best association that con be found.  But, no, i do not believe that a every thing in the universe has its own right name which everybody in the universe could actually know.  That to me is not the predicament that prevails now ... and i am not so very sure that i want to look forward to it either. 

You, of course, are right ... that has nothing to do with logic ... for in logic a name is completely arbitrary.  That is not just "my own mind", every logician should tell you the same thing.  Work it out for yourself.  Substitute a different symbol in a logical argument consistently, then work through the logic again with the new symbol, and see if you do not arrive, must needs, at the same identical conclusion.

M1g0r says
seth 2014-02-15 10:50:04 17092
M1g0r 2014-02-15 09:58:14 17092
Even though you may hate it & it probably has nothing to do in your own mind with logic , both Rudolf Steiner & GW gave NAME an ultimate cosmic context:


Well there are lots of goodies on the bottom of the Chameleon pages ... i have frequently thought that was where GW "hid" his goodies in plain sight and understandable language.  You are here referring to "Let us learn what it means to call each and every thing in the Universe by its own right name."

I too find naming important.  It is almost magical to call something just the very best name possible.  And to not stop with just the name but also to make everything associated with it the very best association that con be found.  But, no, i do not believe that a every thing in the universe has its own right name which everybody in the universe could actually know.  That to me is not the predicament that prevails now ... and i am not so very sure that i want to look forward to it either. 

You, of course, are right ... that has nothing to do with logic ... for in logic a name is completely arbitrary.  That is not just "my own mind", every logician should tell you the same thing.  Work it out for yourself.  Substitute a different symbol in a logical argument consistently, then work through the logic again with the new symbol, and see if you do not arrive, must needs, at the same identical conclusion.
Yep, predictably, Seth ignored the words cosmic context & went back to his own profundity (spiel) maybe stated simply as something is itself; possibly arguable as well there.


Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-15 11:54:37 17092
seth 2014-02-15 10:50:04 17092
M1g0r 2014-02-15 09:58:14 17092
Even though you may hate it & it probably has nothing to do in your own mind with logic , both Rudolf Steiner & GW gave NAME an ultimate cosmic context:


[snip] You are here referring to "Let us learn what it means to call each and every thing in the Universe by its own right name."

I too find naming important.  It is almost magical to call something just the very best name possible.  And to not stop with just the name but also to make everything associated with it the very best association that con be found.  But, no, i do not believe that every thing in the universe has its own right name which everybody in the universe could actually know.  That to me is not the predicament that prevails now ... and i am not so very sure that i want to look forward to it either. 

[snip]
Yep, predictably, Seth ignored the words cosmic context & went back to his own profundity (spiel) maybe stated simply as something is itself; possibly arguable as well there.


i didn't ignore the words "cosmic context", rather i said i don't believe it (see bold red sentence above).

i think of a name as something associated with a thingey by a human.  It gains a context broader than that one human when it is used by other humans to call out that same thingey.  I have no experience with these names being used in any context broader than human communication and thought.  I'm not saying that the cosmic context does not exist ... i am just honestly telling you, i have no experience of it.

So honestly i can't figure out what your phrase "[I] went back to [my] own spiel maybe stated simply as something is itself" really means.  Why would i say that truism?

But just now i did guess a quite interesting interpretation of your words:  maybe the thing itself is its true name ... maybe CFR was saying its true name is the thing itself.   Perhaps profound, but, me thinks, not very practical in today's world since that would pretty much do away with language itself.    But was that what you were getting at?

If it is important, could you clear it up?  ... because i really did not intend to miss or ignore anything important. 

See Also

  1. Thought Win Win Interactions with others with 244 viewings related by tag "identity".
  2. Thought BARBARA CUBED - The Manual of Pure Logic with 202 viewings related by tag "logic".
  3. Thought Conversation on hash tags? with 111 viewings related by tag "logic".
  4. Thought 3 state logic with 90 viewings related by tag "logic".
  5. Thought Eropa with 81 viewings related by tag "identity".
  6. Thought Anonymity Vs Identity with 79 viewings related by tag "identity".
  7. Thought about: Unhacking Wars - comment 67183 with 71 viewings related by tag "identity".
  8. Thought List of Logical Fallacies with 64 viewings related by tag "logic".
  9. Thought The binary logic of two distinctions with 35 viewings related by tag "logic".
  10. Thought about: re: should webids denote people or accounts? from seth russell on 2014-05-17 (public-webid@w3.org from may 2014) with 31 viewings related by tag "identity".
  11. Thought Identity Entails Logic with 22 viewings related by tag "identical".
  12. Thought The Rise of Gobbledygook. with 18 viewings related by tag "logic".
  13. Thought A New Respect for The Specific with 17 viewings related by tag "identity".
  14. Thought seth@thinking.live with 12 viewings related by tag "identity".
  15. Thought Identity Entails the Laws of Logic with 10 viewings related by tag "identical".
  16. Thought BARBARA CUBED - I. DEFINITIONS with 9 viewings related by tag "logic".
  17. Thought Patty as Me with 9 viewings related by tag "identity".
  18. Thought Funny Surprise on Signing my name with 7 viewings related by tag "identity".
  19. Thought Truth with 7 viewings related by tag "logic".
  20. Thought Illative force with 6 viewings related by tag "logic".
  21. Thought The Ten Commandments of Logic with 5 viewings related by tag "logic".
  22. Thought about: GW Document: Spring - #57 with 4 viewings related by tag "logic".
  23. Thought Extensional VS Intensional Logic with 4 viewings related by tag "logic".
  24. Thought identity crisis with 3 viewings related by tag "identity".
  25. Thought about: logically speaking with 3 viewings related by tag "identity".
  26. Thought Illative Force - A Lament with 3 viewings related by tag "logic".
  27. Thought about: Gravatar - Globally Recognized Avatar with 2 viewings related by tag "identity".
  28. Thought about: REpresentation - comment 57743 - comment 57813 with 2 viewings related by tag "identity".
  29. Thought Moving Parts create Possibilities. with 2 viewings related by tag "identity".
  30. Thought Feature: Roaming profiles are here with 2 viewings related by tag "identity".
  31. Thought Worth Repeating with 1 viewings related by tag "logic".
  32. Thought Some math musing re philosophy of mind with 1 viewings related by tag "logic".
  33. Thought about: NetMesh: Light-Weight Digital Identity (LID) with 1 viewings related by tag "identity".
  34. Thought My Foaf with 1 viewings related by tag "identity".
  35. Thought phrases are more specific than single words with 1 viewings related by tag "logic".
  36. Thought Cyber ID? Uniform ID? National ID? with 1 viewings related by tag "identity".
  37. Thought Identity Management SSO with 1 viewings related by tag "identity".
  38. Thought fidenity with 1 viewings related by tag "identity".
  39. Thought Conventional Logic vs Faith with 1 viewings related by tag "logic".
  40. Thought not (not X) is not necessarily X with 0 viewings related by tag "logic".
  41. Thought about: Real ID Act Approved By House Of Representatives - Gizmodo with 0 viewings related by tag "identity".
  42. Thought Logic is great, Survival is better! with 0 viewings related by tag "logic".
  43. Thought An interesting dialogue about Truth with 0 viewings related by tag "logic".
  44. Thought the Identity Web vs mutually resonant entities with 0 viewings related by tag "identity".
  45. Thought about: Identity 2.0 ? Firefox 2.0 and Identity 2.0 with 0 viewings related by tag "identity".
  46. Thought about: On OpenID and comment policies | Decentralized Information Group (DIG) Breadcrumbs with 0 viewings related by tag "identity".
  47. Thought about: Identity, Reference, and the Web (IRW2006) Workshop with 0 viewings related by tag "identity".
  48. Thought about: hmmm .... with 0 viewings related by tag "logic".
  49. Thought Bozo Faust with 0 viewings related by tag "identity".
  50. Thought Author has been lost from headers - IDENTITY crisis with 0 viewings related by tag "identity".