Harmony and Dissonance

About: resonance versus dissonance & cacophony


I prefer harmony.  Dissonance is painful.  The more i experience the world outside of myself, the more dissonance i must absorb.  The more i experience only the world inside myself, the more harmony i can maintain.   see courage and selfishess.

Tags

  1. cacophony
  2. contradiction
  3. harmony
  4. dissonance
  5. item 17109

Comments


Mark de LA says
Consult music & art for the notion (maybe being) of harmony. I doubt it is likely to show up in a Venn diagram. It is peculiar that harmony most often shows up where there is a genetic connection like brothers or parents.
Some of my earliest memories are of mother & I singing in the bathtub of our first home. Likewise there are various singing groups like the Gatlin Brothers (a trio) whose produce a resonance in their voices which is pleasing to the ear.


Seth says
M1g0r 2014-02-19 12:00:43 17109
seth 2014-02-19 11:09:55 17109
mark seems to think that something here expresses a preference for "individualism over substance"
... It does not.   Rather this item tries to comprehend harmony and how the dissonance of contradictions which obtain in my experience interact in my being. 
Yep, missed the point . Whatever it was since I can find only paraphrase.  The cacophony of what you wrote with what I said made you dig deeper into yourself & contradiction inside there ? Huh?


strange you heard cacophony where i was feeling the same way as you were ... oh well, best to just let that go, eh?

more like your obstinate obstruction and avoidance of substantive communication reminded me of one of my peculiar problems and how it may be related to the harmony/discord between me and the contradictions inherent between myself and the world ... something that was on my agenda to express on my blog .. thanks for playing .



Mark de LA says
Here is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have heard.  I once watched a young woman play the flute solo on stage in my opera class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGkOf64pJ5s&feature=kp


Mark de LA says
I also suspect that resonance & harmony are similar to a fractal property.

Seth says
Frequently after i confront the contradictions from the world outside, i hanker to withdraw into my own private place where i can experience peace.

Seth says
source: seth
The more i experience only the world inside myself, the more harmony i can maintain
I've noticed this phenomena at different points of my life and from different contexts.  I think the existence of this tradeoff is a no-brainer ...everyone should and probably does experience this same tradeoff.  i mean i have some control of resolving conflicts within my being ... i have no such control outside of my being ... when i absorb that which is without, taking it into my being, i must suddenly be confronted with that in it,  which contradicts what i hold inside. 

I've already dealt with this quite abstractly under the title Paradox and Otherness.  Note the yellow area in the Ven like mind map.  That is where the discord happens. 

What is discord?  Is it not just that very A=/=A clash that we have been talking about here? 

What is harmony?  Is it not just that very A==A focus that we have been talking about too?

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-21 11:05:28 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 09:24:24 17109
I also suspect that resonance & harmony are similar to a fractal property.

oh ... how so?
See harmony in the Wikipedia as well. My experience of harmony is repetition of patterns at various different levels & in various chords at an emotional level - similar to resonance projection.
In my first high school biology class Mr. Byers took a tuning fork & a graduated cylinder of water & hit the tuning fork near the entrance of the cylinder & the sound projected loud in the room.


Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 09:24:24 17109
I also suspect that resonance & harmony are similar to a fractal property.

oh ... how so?

Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 10:15:36 17109
Here is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have heard.  I once watched a young woman play the flute solo on stage in my opera class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGkOf64pJ5s&feature=kp


well yes it is beautiful ... i am listening to it now.

frequently i hear beauty like that differently when i encounter it in other special contexts.  i am almost certain that the beauty i hear in any given context is still and all quite very different than what you experience in any of yours.
... or, as they say so very frequently, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 09:20:45 17109
Consult music & art for the notion (maybe being) of harmony. I doubt it is likely to show up in a Venn diagram. It is peculiar that harmony most often shows up where there is a genetic connection like brothers or parents.
Some of my earliest memories are of mother & I singing in the bathtub of our first home. Likewise there are various singing groups like the Gatlin Brothers (a trio) whose produce a resonance in their voices which is pleasing to the ear.


Quit possibly you and i are talking about totally different kinds of harmony here ... or maybe totally different aspects of the same harmony ... i am not really sure. 

Your notion seems to be about vibration and how it hits an ear or an eye.  And yes that is how harmony is most frequently talked about.  There sounds or events from different sources are similar yet different ... and different in interesting ways such that they subjectively sound beautiful. 

My notion extends that to psychological events.  I think some call that a feeling of synchronicity.  It happens where i walk into the world and all that i encounter feels just right.  And even new things surprise me that i was looking for.   I always love those times.   Don't you?

I also doubt that these kinds of phenomena would "show up" in some analytic diagram.  Expecting some kind of subjective "show up" like that would, me thinks, be a category error.  But i still think my Ven diagram correctly identifies the situations in the real world where dissonance does show up to us when we experience contradiction between what we hold inside and what we find obtaining in the world.  Harmony, of course, happening when what is in here and what is out there are in sync. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-21 11:03:21 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 10:15:36 17109
Here is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have heard.  I once watched a young woman play the flute solo on stage in my opera class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGkOf64pJ5s&feature=kp


well yes it is beautiful ... i am listening to it now.

frequently i hear beauty like that differently when i encounter it in other special contexts.  i am almost certain that the beauty i hear in any given context is still and all quite very different than what you experience in any of yours.
... or, as they say so very frequently, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
Lots of people must have experienced this piece as beautiful  in different contexts since it has lasted & persisted since the 1760's


Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 11:45:17 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:43:22 17109
I suppose harmony is synonymous to congruence with Seth, eh?
harmony (n.) Look up harmony at Dictionary.comlate 14c., from Old French armonie "harmony," also the name of a musical instrument (12c.), from Latin harmonia, from Greek harmonia "agreement, concord of sounds," also as a proper name, the personification of music, literally "means of joining," used of ship-planks, etc., also "settled government, order," related to harmos "fastenings of a door; shoulder," from PIE *ar-ti-, from *ar- "to fit together" (see arm (n.1)). Musical sense is oldest in English; that of "agreement of feeling, concord" is from late 14c.

and you said that to say what?  

How do you expect an old dictionary definition and historical derivation of that mark will inform our dialogue here?

Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 11:25:25 17109
seth 2014-02-21 11:05:28 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 09:24:24 17109
I also suspect that resonance & harmony are similar to a fractal property.

oh ... how so?
See harmony in the Wikipedia as well. My experience of harmony is repetition of patterns at various different levels & in various chords at an emotional level - similar to resonance projection.
In my first high school biology class Mr. Byers took a tuning fork & a graduated cylinder of water & hit the tuning fork near the entrance of the cylinder & the sound projected loud in the room.


Can you also feel harmony in a Shostakovitch symphony?

Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 11:43:22 17109
I suppose harmony is synonymous to congruence with Seth, eh?

i suppose so, thanks for noticing.  but i would, of course, express it differently.  harmony is where i feel in sync with the world.   is your harmony any different?

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-21 13:16:22 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:43:22 17109
I suppose harmony is synonymous to congruence with Seth, eh?

i suppose so, thanks for noticing.  but i would, of course, express it differently.  harmony is where i feel in sync with the world.   is your harmony any different?
For some value of the word sync ?
Well Seth there really is no my harmony & your harmony.
I thought the word congruence ( more a mathematical term like congruent circles) was closer to what you were expressing; especially since the harmony notion is intependent of the inside/outside prepositions.



Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-21 13:19:59 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:45:17 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:43:22 17109
I suppose harmony is synonymous to congruence with Seth, eh?
harmony (n.) Look up harmony at Dictionary.comlate 14c., from Old French armonie "harmony," also the name of a musical instrument (12c.), from Latin harmonia, from Greek harmonia "agreement, concord of sounds," also as a proper name, the personification of music, literally "means of joining," used of ship-planks, etc., also "settled government, order," related to harmos "fastenings of a door; shoulder," from PIE *ar-ti-, from *ar- "to fit together" (see arm (n.1)). Musical sense is oldest in English; that of "agreement of feeling, concord" is from late 14c.

and you said that to say what?  

How do you expect an old dictionary definition and historical derivation of that mark will inform our dialogue here?
I probably should have put a comma before the with in my statement or put "with Seth" at the beginning of my statement & it would have avoided the ngai whang hi tone that bubbled up. Etymology helps get to the root of the meaning of a word - live it, love it or write in a foreign language dialect of your own natural language.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-21 13:28:35 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:25:25 17109
seth 2014-02-21 11:05:28 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 09:24:24 17109
I also suspect that resonance & harmony are similar to a fractal property.

oh ... how so?
See harmony in the Wikipedia as well. My experience of harmony is repetition of patterns at various different levels & in various chords at an emotional level - similar to resonance projection.
In my first high school biology class Mr. Byers took a tuning fork & a graduated cylinder of water & hit the tuning fork near the entrance of the cylinder & the sound projected loud in the room.


Can you also feel harmony in a Shostakovitch symphony?
I never got into Shostakovich
Can't think of anything of his that stands out or I can remember.


Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 14:06:19 17109
seth 2014-02-21 13:19:59 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:45:17 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:43:22 17109
I suppose harmony is synonymous to congruence with Seth, eh?
harmony (n.) Look up harmony at Dictionary.comlate 14c., from Old French armonie "harmony," also the name of a musical instrument (12c.), from Latin harmonia, from Greek harmonia "agreement, concord of sounds," also as a proper name, the personification of music, literally "means of joining," used of ship-planks, etc., also "settled government, order," related to harmos "fastenings of a door; shoulder," from PIE *ar-ti-, from *ar- "to fit together" (see arm (n.1)). Musical sense is oldest in English; that of "agreement of feeling, concord" is from late 14c.

and you said that to say what?  

How do you expect an old dictionary definition and historical derivation of that mark will inform our dialogue here?
I probably should have put a comma before the with in my statement or put "with Seth" at the beginning of my statement & it would have avoided the ngai whang hi tone that bubbled up. Etymology helps get to the root of the meaning of a word - live it, love it or write in a foreign language dialect of your own natural language.


well harmony is consistent with congruence in general.  what happens between seth and the world or within seth's being in just one specific case of it.  and the experience is subjective and not objective.  i do believe that the same thing applies to you as well,  so i don't know what you meant by singeing me out in particular.  the comma made no difference in how i parsed the sentence.

several times i have mentiond to you that i am using the natural English language just exactly the way it has evolved to work.  I am not writing in "my own natural language".   Why do keep contradicting that?  Sure, selecting words based upon dictionary definitions and etymology helps us express our meanings accurately ... but where the things in our minds do not necessarily match words and phrases already being used in the culture, I, and everybody else, must needs make up new words and phrases and ways to express those things. 

Please do not keep accusing me of wierding out with my language without at least understanding the necessity for it and/or explaiing why i should do otherwise ... it is creating discord between us.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-21 14:59:06 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 14:06:19 17109
seth 2014-02-21 13:19:59 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:45:17 17109
Einai 2014-02-21 11:43:22 17109
I suppose harmony is synonymous to congruence with Seth, eh?
harmony (n.) Look up harmony at Dictionary.comlate 14c., from Old French armonie "harmony," also the name of a musical instrument (12c.), from Latin harmonia, from Greek harmonia "agreement, concord of sounds," also as a proper name, the personification of music, literally "means of joining," used of ship-planks, etc., also "settled government, order," related to harmos "fastenings of a door; shoulder," from PIE *ar-ti-, from *ar- "to fit together" (see arm (n.1)). Musical sense is oldest in English; that of "agreement of feeling, concord" is from late 14c.

and you said that to say what?  

How do you expect an old dictionary definition and historical derivation of that mark will inform our dialogue here?
I probably should have put a comma before the with in my statement or put "with Seth" at the beginning of my statement & it would have avoided the ngai whang hi tone that bubbled up. Etymology helps get to the root of the meaning of a word - live it, love it or write in a foreign language dialect of your own natural language.


well harmony is consistent with congruence in general.  what happens between seth and the world or within seth's being in just one specific case of it.  and the experience is subjective and not objective.  i do believe that the same thing applies to you as well,  so i don't know what you meant by singeing me out in particular.  the comma made no difference in how i parsed the sentence.

several times i have mentiond to you that i am using the natural English language just exactly the way it has evolved to work.  I am not writing in "my own natural language".   Why do keep contradicting that?  Sure, selecting words based upon dictionary definitions and etymology helps us express our meanings accurately ... but where the things in our minds do not necessarily match words and phrases already being used in the culture, I, and everybody else, must needs make up new words and phrases and ways to express those things. 

Please do not keep accusing me of wierding out with my language without at least understanding the necessity for it and/or explaiing why i should do otherwise ... it is creating discord between us.
Please don't ngai whang hi my use of etymology & dictionaries when I try to understand what the fuck you are talking about seeming to use words in a different way than I do.  Maybe even learn some uses of punctuation - it does make a difference.


Seth says
source: mark
Well Seth there really is no my harmony & your harmony.
... huh?   When i feel myself in harmony, that is my harmony ... when you feel yourself in harmony, that is your harmony.   How can i possibly understand this thing differently?

... and, i suspect,  harmony when it happens to you will feel totally different than it does to me.

To be honest with you i kind of doubt that you have felt this "in sync" with the world that i occasionaly feel ... but i am pretty sure you have felt things just quite as verybeautiful and called them  harmony.  Maybe your sync and my harmony are more similar, even perchance identical, than i am imagineing over here ... i don't know ... and almost certainaly willnever know ... why? ... well just because i cannot experience what you experince inside ... and the way you talk ... i am beginning to think it is quite different indeed .

But, hey, you are right ... the best we have is natural language word "harmony" to mung yours and mine together as if they were actually identical.  LIGSIB.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-21 15:15:51 17109
source: mark
Well Seth there really is no my harmony & your harmony.
... huh?   When i feel myself in harmony, that is my harmony ... when you feel yourself in harmony, that is your harmony.   How can i possibly understand this thing differently?

... and, i suspect,  harmony when it happens to you will feel totally different than it does to me.

To be honest with you i kind of doubt that you have felt this "in sync" with the world that i occasionaly feel ... but i am pretty sure you have felt things just quite as verybeautiful and called them  harmony.  Maybe your sync and my harmony are more similar, even perchance identical, than i am imagineing over here ... i don't know ... and almost certainaly willnever know ... why? ... well just because i cannot experience what you experince inside ... and the way you talk ... i am beginning to think it is quite different indeed .

But, hey, you are right ... the best we have is natural language word "harmony" to mung yours and mine together as if they were actually identical.  LIGSIB.
Nah!  The music of Gluck proves otherwise - externality has something to do with it
Anyway no etymology here just a giant HUH?


Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 15:27:38 17109
seth 2014-02-21 15:15:51 17109
source: mark
Well Seth there really is no my harmony & your harmony.
... huh?   When i feel myself in harmony, that is my harmony ... when you feel yourself in harmony, that is your harmony.   How can i possibly understand this thing differently?

... and, i suspect,  harmony when it happens to you will feel totally different than it does to me.

To be honest with you i kind of doubt that you have felt this "in sync" with the world that i occasionaly feel ... but i am pretty sure you have felt things just quite as verybeautiful and called them  harmony.  Maybe your sync and my harmony are more similar, even perchance identical, than i am imagineing over here ... i don't know ... and almost certainaly willnever know ... why? ... well just because i cannot experience what you experince inside ... and the way you talk ... i am beginning to think it is quite different indeed .

But, hey, you are right ... the best we have is natural language word "harmony" to mung yours and mine together as if they were actually identical.  LIGSIB.
Nah!  The music of Gluck proves otherwise - externality has something to do with it
Anyway no etymology here just a giant HUH?


cute baby, do you know him?

Did you look up "ligsib" ?  I think i got the coin on that word ... good since it can even be pronounced.  I bet you will guess it if you actually try.  It should be almost totally obvious especially if one considers the context of the sentence it was first invoked in.

Actually the Gluck pieced proves to me, that your harmony and mine are quite different.  You see, although i listened all the way through, and enjoyed it deeply, i found the emotion it engendered in me not just a little bit sentimental, bourgeois and merely reminiscent of the baroque.  no absolute harmony there ... just pretty music. 

Seth says
Einai 2014-02-21 15:59:45 17109
So everyone since 1760 that liked it had their own harmony or whatever.  Great.  No use in reading your posts any more.  viva la separateness.


Well should we be just talking about *hearing* the chords of the chromatic scale, i will agree with you, that is shared by most people who have studied western music.  As such that it is a learned pattern of perception ... and most people who have listened to a lot of music played in that scale with those usual chords will experience the beauty they perceive there similarly.  An Indian who listens mostly to a pentatonic scale might not hear that beauty the same. 

That said, I am obviously not talking merely of the usual chords of the chromatic scale.  Rather i am talking about how events and attitudes and conceptions and compulsions in the world harmonize (or not) with my experiences.  I think you will find, even if you consult a standard dictionary, that sense of the word is included. 

But, hey Mark, read my posts or not, present contradictions to me or not, your choice ... it is not really a problem for me anymore ... i have learned to live with your discord towards me ... it is, as you see, quite otherness to me ... and i can even it .

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