this is the attitude i grew up with towards people who did not matriculate in GWs brand of the esoteric.
I wonder
.... 
Why does Mark reacts to this item with so much anger and misdirection?Tags
- stick rubbing
- walled garden
- rwg
- item 17121
- attitude policeman
- troglodytes
Comments
Mark de LA says
I'm wondering why it didn't stunt my growth or muck with Elaine's mind?
Mark de LA says
What else in your life is similar that is not at all based in a word such as troglodyte?
Seth says
it was an attitude towards other people and the culture at large that i had to unlearn. i think i unlearned it successfully ... took me a while. i am betting that Elaine unlearned it too. I doubt that Gregory ever did. I rather suspect that you still believe in the division and the attitude because of the way you visibly act to others who do not share your esoteric assumptions.
Before i ran away from home it prevented quite a lot of social learning.
Einai 2014-02-27 15:41:07 17126
More RWG . Attitude police. What specifically did it prevent you from doing once you ran away from home?
it was an attitude towards other people and the culture at large that i had to unlearn. i think i unlearned it successfully ... took me a while. i am betting that Elaine unlearned it too. I doubt that Gregory ever did. I rather suspect that you still believe in the division and the attitude because of the way you visibly act to others who do not share your esoteric assumptions.
Before i ran away from home it prevented quite a lot of social learning.
Mark de LA says
More RWG . Attitude police. What specifically did it prevent you from doing once you ran away from home?
Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-02-27 15:41:07 17126
More RWG . Attitude police. What specifically did it prevent you from doing once you ran away from home?
What foibles of your own are you blaming upon the word troglodytes?
Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-27 16:43:13 17126
Incidentally, just for the record, and because you are interested in where thought come from. I had this item private until i read your response to the medical discussion here, then i thought this train of thought would inform your response to that ... oh well ... perhaps it did not.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
... & yet you are one making the word & GW wrong for using it. I understood the word & it's use. Even if I explained it the only listening on your end would be the sounds of your rubbing the stick. This is not the first time you have rubbed it. When I see your lumpkin attached to something I previously posted in full I get upset. I asked you to privatize it so I didn't have to see your lumpkin everytime I check the news. You refused. That made it about YOU!
Your pointer to facebook is confusing & irrelevant to your troglodyte word hangup!
By the way, Rudolf Steiner never used the word that I know of & yet he speaks of the spiritual.
Your pointer to facebook is confusing & irrelevant to your troglodyte word hangup!
By the way, Rudolf Steiner never used the word that I know of & yet he speaks of the spiritual.
Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-27 16:33:54 17126
whatever.
I am curious though ... wondering if you can give yourself a straight answers to these question ....
Are you more enlightened than people who were not in the order?
Do you think other people who were in the order are more enlightened than those who were not?
Do you still believe that people who were not in the order are troglodytes?
Einai 2014-02-27 16:27:44 17126
So apparently your not interested in any answers. I have no problem with the word. You have the problem. You are making generalizations about it. You have turned it into a RWG. You who once thought otherness was a virtue. You had the childhood problems & don't want to face them. What's the use?
Rub on down the stick, eh? 50+ years later still anything come out?
Rub on down the stick, eh? 50+ years later still anything come out?
whatever.
I am curious though ... wondering if you can give yourself a straight answers to these question ....
Are you more enlightened than people who were not in the order?
Do you think other people who were in the order are more enlightened than those who were not?
Do you still believe that people who were not in the order are troglodytes?
I ask questions that you do not want to face or answer & you expect me to support your RWG & answer yours? PML
Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-27 15:51:40 17126
it was an attitude towards other people and the culture at large that i had to unlearn. i think i unlearned it successfully ... took me a while. i am betting that Elaine unlearned it too. I doubt that Gregory ever did. I rather suspect that you still believe in the division and the attitude because of the way you visibly act to others who do not share your esoteric assumptions.
Before i ran away from home it prevented quite a lot of social learning.
Einai 2014-02-27 15:41:07 17126
More RWG . Attitude police. What specifically did it prevent you from doing once you ran away from home?
it was an attitude towards other people and the culture at large that i had to unlearn. i think i unlearned it successfully ... took me a while. i am betting that Elaine unlearned it too. I doubt that Gregory ever did. I rather suspect that you still believe in the division and the attitude because of the way you visibly act to others who do not share your esoteric assumptions.
Before i ran away from home it prevented quite a lot of social learning.
What specifically did it prevent you from doing - not general rwg blame game? Could you not open your mouth & express yourself to other people? What specifically about other people did you have to unlearn? What did GW say to you that made you think you couldn't relate to other people. Did you ever ask him what the troglodyte-thelemite polarity meant ? How much was that all in your own walled garden?
Seth says
well, actually, now that you mention it, any other word with a extremely negitive connotation, which lumps people together people by some membership trait has pretty much the same effect ... here are a few: liberal, conservitive, nigger, geek, etc etc.
Einai 2014-02-27 15:46:50 17126
What else in your life is similar that is not at all based in a word such as troglodyte?
well, actually, now that you mention it, any other word with a extremely negitive connotation, which lumps people together people by some membership trait has pretty much the same effect ... here are a few: liberal, conservitive, nigger, geek, etc etc.
Mark de LA says
Why now some 50 years later do you still hold a grudge & a RWG about it? What instance keeps that alive now?
Seth says
mark, you really should be answering those questions of yourself. Early on i discarded the term and did not take it seriously. I do not blame it for anything i did, of didn't do, or any attitude of disrespect or superiority that i had twords others. Its effect on me was probably negiglable when i even started junior high school.
Incidentally i think GW's document tells us quite enough about what this thingey meant to him. But i think i did ask and was told it meant cave dweller ... those outside the order were not as enlightened as we were. I'm betting that you believe that to this day.
Einai 2014-02-27 15:55:20 17126
seth 2014-02-27 15:51:40 17126
it was an attitude towards other people and the culture at large that i had to unlearn. i think i unlearned it successfully ... took me a while. i am betting that Elaine unlearned it too. I doubt that Gregory ever did. I rather suspect that you still believe in the division and the attitude because of the way you visibly act to others who do not share your esoteric assumptions.
Before i ran away from home it prevented quite a lot of social learning.
Einai 2014-02-27 15:41:07 17126
More RWG . Attitude police. What specifically did it prevent you from doing once you ran away from home?
it was an attitude towards other people and the culture at large that i had to unlearn. i think i unlearned it successfully ... took me a while. i am betting that Elaine unlearned it too. I doubt that Gregory ever did. I rather suspect that you still believe in the division and the attitude because of the way you visibly act to others who do not share your esoteric assumptions.
Before i ran away from home it prevented quite a lot of social learning.
What specifically did it prevent you from doing - not general rwg blame game? Could you not open your mouth & express yourself to other people? What specifically about other people did you have to unlearn? What did GW say to you that made you think you couldn't relate to other people. Did you ever ask him what the troglodyte-thelemite polarity meant ? How much was that all in your own walled garden?
mark, you really should be answering those questions of yourself. Early on i discarded the term and did not take it seriously. I do not blame it for anything i did, of didn't do, or any attitude of disrespect or superiority that i had twords others. Its effect on me was probably negiglable when i even started junior high school.
Incidentally i think GW's document tells us quite enough about what this thingey meant to him. But i think i did ask and was told it meant cave dweller ... those outside the order were not as enlightened as we were. I'm betting that you believe that to this day.
Mark de LA says
seth 2014-02-27 17:14:39 17126
Einai 2014-02-27 16:56:40 17126
seth 2014-02-27 16:43:13 17126
Incidentally, just for the record, and because you are interested in where thought come from. I had this item private until i read your response to the medical discussion here, then i thought this train of thought would inform your response to that ... oh well ... perhaps it did not.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
... & yet you are one making the word & GW wrong for using it. I understood the word & it's use. Even if I explained it the only listening on your end would be the sounds of your rubbing the stick. This is not the first time you have rubbed it. When I see your lumpkin attached to something I previously posted in full I get upset. I asked you to privatize it so I didn't have to see your lumpkin everytime I check the news. You refused. That made it about YOU!
Your pointer to facebook is confusing & irrelevant to your troglodyte word hangup!
By the way, Rudolf Steiner never used the word that I know of & yet he speaks of the spiritual.
Your pointer to facebook is confusing & irrelevant to your troglodyte word hangup!
By the way, Rudolf Steiner never used the word that I know of & yet he speaks of the spiritual.
yep the word started with AC and GW continued it.
if you stop projecting yourself on-to-me you might understand what i am saying in and of itself.
i did ask GW and he told it meant cave dweller ... those outside the order were not as enlightened as we were. Do *you* still believe that to this day? The question is to you about you. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.
if we ever get through this mirroring-rwg-horseshit, which i doubt, then it might actually be interesting for both of us to delve into the unbalances that cause disease that we were eerily getting close to here. But maybe this has more juice, eh?
if you stop projecting yourself on-to-me you might understand what i am saying in and of itself.
i did ask GW and he told it meant cave dweller ... those outside the order were not as enlightened as we were. Do *you* still believe that to this day? The question is to you about you. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.
if we ever get through this mirroring-rwg-horseshit, which i doubt, then it might actually be interesting for both of us to delve into the unbalances that cause disease that we were eerily getting close to here. But maybe this has more juice, eh?
Nope the question is about YOU - why do you give a shit after 50 years a wife & child & tons of other experience? Just soap-boxing trying to gather a crowd to condemn your father. So far you have not illustrated one single point about your life that showed up as a disease connected to the idea behind the word troglodyte.
There is a book called the Psychobiology of the Mind-Body Healing which I read when I was doing NLP & fire walks. There are other ones which are more current. Those are the ones that will give you clues; not grinding an old axe on an old mind sore. Perhaps it is the lack of forgiveness for some transgression that is giving being to your current physical ailments.
There is a book called the Psychobiology of the Mind-Body Healing which I read when I was doing NLP & fire walks. There are other ones which are more current. Those are the ones that will give you clues; not grinding an old axe on an old mind sore. Perhaps it is the lack of forgiveness for some transgression that is giving being to your current physical ailments.
Seth says
Incidentally, just for the record, and because you are interested in where thought come from. I had this item private until i read your response to the medical discussion here, then i thought this train of thought would inform your response to that ... oh well ... perhaps it did not.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
Seth says
Einai 2014-02-27 16:56:40 17126
seth 2014-02-27 16:43:13 17126
Incidentally, just for the record, and because you are interested in where thought come from. I had this item private until i read your response to the medical discussion here, then i thought this train of thought would inform your response to that ... oh well ... perhaps it did not.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
This train of thought was never about me, it was always about you.
... & yet you are one making the word & GW wrong for using it. I understood the word & it's use. Even if I explained it the only listening on your end would be the sounds of your rubbing the stick. This is not the first time you have rubbed it. When I see your lumpkin attached to something I previously posted in full I get upset. I asked you to privatize it so I didn't have to see your lumpkin everytime I check the news. You refused. That made it about YOU!
Your pointer to facebook is confusing & irrelevant to your troglodyte word hangup!
By the way, Rudolf Steiner never used the word that I know of & yet he speaks of the spiritual.
Your pointer to facebook is confusing & irrelevant to your troglodyte word hangup!
By the way, Rudolf Steiner never used the word that I know of & yet he speaks of the spiritual.
yep the word started with AC and GW continued it.
if you stop projecting yourself on-to-me you might understand what i am saying in and of itself.
i did ask GW and he told it meant cave dweller ... those outside the order were not as enlightened as we were. Do *you* still believe that to this day? The question is to you about you. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.
if we ever get through this mirroring-rwg-horseshit, which i doubt, then it might actually be interesting for both of us to delve into the unbalances that cause disease that we were eerily getting close to here. But maybe this has more juice, eh?
if you stop projecting yourself on-to-me you might understand what i am saying in and of itself.
i did ask GW and he told it meant cave dweller ... those outside the order were not as enlightened as we were. Do *you* still believe that to this day? The question is to you about you. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.
if we ever get through this mirroring-rwg-horseshit, which i doubt, then it might actually be interesting for both of us to delve into the unbalances that cause disease that we were eerily getting close to here. But maybe this has more juice, eh?
Mark de LA says
Maybe the walled garden is a labyrinth - this one is certainly a good metaphor:
(from the Shining)
(from the Shining)- There is a way out!
- Some stay in
- Some get scared by boogey men while in the maze
- Some stay in the past
- etc
Seth says
Incidentally i don't think i have any problem with what you are calling a "walled garden". I completely accept my predicament as constituted by my separate individual being. That is not a maze that i play myself out of. Nor is the isolation of my mind which happens as a consequence of that physiology a problem that i would need to find a way out of. The honest communication i have with others, and the empathy that i can feel for them, is quite enough for me to forge that wall.
Of late however, i have been amazed by just how very different other people are inside, compared to my own experiences. Of course i come to that realization by indirect observation of their external behavior ... so, quite possibly i have over estimated the differences ... but i seriously doubt that. As you know a respect for their internal otherness is the attitude i have choosen. That attitude reigns supreme for me ... almost like a personal prime directive. But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
Of late however, i have been amazed by just how very different other people are inside, compared to my own experiences. Of course i come to that realization by indirect observation of their external behavior ... so, quite possibly i have over estimated the differences ... but i seriously doubt that. As you know a respect for their internal otherness is the attitude i have choosen. That attitude reigns supreme for me ... almost like a personal prime directive. But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
Mark de LA says
seth 2014-03-06 13:53:12 17126
Incidentally i don't think i have any problem with what you are calling a "walled garden". I completely accept my predicament as constituted by my separate individual being. That is not a maze that i play myself out of. Nor is the isolation of my mind which happens as a consequence of that physiology a problem that i would need to find a way out of. The honest communication i have with others, and the empathy that i can feel for them, is quite enough for me to forge that wall.
Of late however, i have been amazed by just how very different other people are inside, compared to my own experiences. Of course i come to that realization by indirect observation of their external behavior ... so, quite possibly i have over estimated the differences ... but i seriously doubt that. As you know a respect for their internal otherness is the attitude i have choosen. That attitude reigns supreme for me ... almost like a personal prime directive. But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
Of late however, i have been amazed by just how very different other people are inside, compared to my own experiences. Of course i come to that realization by indirect observation of their external behavior ... so, quite possibly i have over estimated the differences ... but i seriously doubt that. As you know a respect for their internal otherness is the attitude i have choosen. That attitude reigns supreme for me ... almost like a personal prime directive. But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
... Interacting with your imagination of what their inside life is & the already, always listening you have built up over the years & continue to build about others & otherness including your presumption of otherness respected - is a walled garden nevertheless .
attitude is the best word to describe your already-always listening relationship to others the otherness respect being a part of it of varying authenticity.
.. anyway, bon voyage .. good sailing
attitude is the best word to describe your already-always listening relationship to others the otherness respect being a part of it of varying authenticity.
.. anyway, bon voyage .. good sailing
Seth says
seth: But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
mark: Interacting with your imagination of what their inside life is & the already, always listening you have built up over the years & continue to build about others & otherness including your presumption of otherness respected - is a walled garden nevertheless .
seth: well when i interact with somebody, i am interacting with them ... regardless of what i imagine is happening. It is kind of a Zen thing ... maybe hard to gestalt. Maybe when you get it, you are out of the garden, maybe not.
Incidentally one of my favorite things is to imagine what is happening inside somebody else even down to why it is happening and being quite convinced that i have it as it is so. Then going, well that is just my own imagination and killing the fantasy ... then perhaps later discovering that, in fact, i was way off.
Nevertheless, when i jam my finger up your nostril, you will feel it. No imagination necessary.
mark: attitude is the best word to describe your already-always listening relationship to others the otherness respect being a part of it of varying authenticity.
seth: speak for yourself, mark.
seth: But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
mark: Interacting with your imagination of what their inside life is & the already, always listening you have built up over the years & continue to build about others & otherness including your presumption of otherness respected - is a walled garden nevertheless .
seth: well when i interact with somebody, i am interacting with them ... regardless of what i imagine is happening. It is kind of a Zen thing ... maybe hard to gestalt. Maybe when you get it, you are out of the garden, maybe not.
Incidentally one of my favorite things is to imagine what is happening inside somebody else even down to why it is happening and being quite convinced that i have it as it is so. Then going, well that is just my own imagination and killing the fantasy ... then perhaps later discovering that, in fact, i was way off.
Nevertheless, when i jam my finger up your nostril, you will feel it. No imagination necessary.
mark: attitude is the best word to describe your already-always listening relationship to others the otherness respect being a part of it of varying authenticity.
seth: speak for yourself, mark.
Mark de LA says
seth 2014-03-06 22:14:00 17126
seth: But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
mark: Interacting with your imagination of what their inside life is & the already, always listening you have built up over the years & continue to build about others & otherness including your presumption of otherness respected - is a walled garden nevertheless .
seth: well when i interact with somebody, i am interacting with them ... regardless of what i imagine is happening. It is kind of a Zen thing ... maybe hard to gestalt. Maybe when you get it, you are out of the garden, maybe not.
Incidentally one of my favorite things is to imagine what is happening inside somebody else even down to why it is happening and being quite convinced that i have it as it is so. Then going, well that is just my own imagination and killing the fantasy ... then perhaps later discovering that, in fact, i was way off.
Nevertheless, when i jam my finger up your nostril, you will feel it. No imagination necessary.
mark: attitude is the best word to describe your already-always listening relationship to others the otherness respect being a part of it of varying authenticity.
seth: speak for yourself, mark.
seth: But in any case i find these thoughts and feelings about other's inside life quite fascinating ... and, even though it is not something that i can directly experience, it is nevertheless that which i interact with. Strange, eh?
mark: Interacting with your imagination of what their inside life is & the already, always listening you have built up over the years & continue to build about others & otherness including your presumption of otherness respected - is a walled garden nevertheless .
seth: well when i interact with somebody, i am interacting with them ... regardless of what i imagine is happening. It is kind of a Zen thing ... maybe hard to gestalt. Maybe when you get it, you are out of the garden, maybe not.
Incidentally one of my favorite things is to imagine what is happening inside somebody else even down to why it is happening and being quite convinced that i have it as it is so. Then going, well that is just my own imagination and killing the fantasy ... then perhaps later discovering that, in fact, i was way off.
Nevertheless, when i jam my finger up your nostril, you will feel it. No imagination necessary.
mark: attitude is the best word to describe your already-always listening relationship to others the otherness respect being a part of it of varying authenticity.
seth: speak for yourself, mark.
. anyway, bon voyage .. good sailing
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