not (not X) is not necessarily X


Think about it ...




First make a distinction, say peanut butter and not peanut butter. 

.....................................................................................................................




Now, thinking only of that which is not peanut butter make a another distinction.

Let us do the same thing we did above.

....................................................................................................................


Let us call our new distinction, orange juice and not orange juice.

Now were this new distinction the same as the old distinction we certainly would be back to peanut butter. 

....................................................................................................................

But that is not necessarily the case.

what if we actually discovered something new that was not peanut butter and at the same time not (not peanut butter)?

Wouldn't that be a surprise


Tags

  1. surprise
  2. logic
  3. not not
  4. huh

Comments


Seth says
Einai 2014-03-11 08:54:29 17158
2014-03-11 08:49:13 17158
I think not not x is an equation that has meaning in the context of boolean algebra or predicate calculus & in English per se is to be avoided for clarity.


well actually i think it is a common pattern of thought.  i do it all the time.  i think this is not that ... then i think but is is not (not that).  and that is exactly where things get interesting.  and real grounded thought begins. 

you see what might be happening here is the discovery of something new.   we really cannot rule that out.  we may have discovered something not peanut butter and at the same time not just more penut butter.   you may also want to relate that back to the notion of being open to something new.  same thing really.

Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-03-11 09:03:23 17158
... or as GW would say some not X is peanut butter and some not X is orange juice! etc..
some not peanut butter is orange juice and some not orange juice is peanut butter .

& some (not orange juice ) + (some not peanutbutter) = something else.


Seth says
Einai 2014-03-11 08:56:57 17158
seth 2014-03-11 08:52:32 17158
Einai 2014-03-11 08:49:13 17158
show the new thing on the Ven diagram not just use the words or your equation.

er, i did. 
I see nothing strange or remarkable - what are you getting at? It depends upon where you focus when you say not X, eh?


well we thought you were focusing on not peanut butter.  bear in mind that when we think, when we draw distinctions, we are not in a state of complete clarity and absolute knowing.  presuming we are is to be dishonest. 

Seth says
Einai 2014-03-11 13:40:31 17158
seth 2014-03-11 13:00:46 17158
Einai 2014-03-11 11:37:59 17158
seth 2014-03-11 09:46:00 17158
Einai 2014-03-11 08:56:57 17158
seth 2014-03-11 08:52:32 17158
Einai 2014-03-11 08:49:13 17158
show the new thing on the Ven diagram not just use the words or your equation.

er, i did. 
I see nothing strange or remarkable - what are you getting at? It depends upon where you focus when you say not X, eh?


well [I] thought you were focusing on not peanut butter.  bear in mind that when we think, when we draw distinctions, we are not in a state of complete clarity and absolute knowing.  presuming we are is to be dishonest. 
Such is your strawman.  When I make a distinction for myself I know what I am pointing at.
... wow  ... an infallible mind.  Such a thing to behold!  I guess you haven't ever had the experience of  thinking something is different and then after careful attention finding out it was the same ... or visa versa.   I wonder, do you ever want to leave yourself open to that possibility ... or not ?
Read carefully what I wrote.  When I make a distinction I separate something out of my perceptive world (mind, body & spirit) from the background noise (the whole universe).  Whether or not it corresponds to anything I say or you say has nothing to do with being right or wrong or examining it from different perspectives. I make something distinct for myself.  Perhaps this one will help repeating, perhaps a bit clearer, the sequence of encounter in 3976 .


Well of course, quite so, as to the bolded sentence.  Nor did i  suggest anything different. 

Now think where do we use this "not not" analysis?   Well it is used after the fact to go beyond what is given by your personal experience.  And that is the very place that we need to realize that, even thought we made the distinction ourselves quite honestly, to go beyond that experience we should perhaps realize that not (not peanut butter) is not necessarily peanut butter.

Seth says
Einai 2014-03-11 09:17:29 17158
Einai 2014-03-11 09:07:43 17158
In a way we might be playing with that 4th form of nothing, eh?



yes might be related.   but i've always thought of it as the third state of logic.   this is about drawing distinctions ... recognizing them.  nothing is more just empty, not a place where recognition even happens because there is nothing there to recognize. 

if you think about it, it is not even a place where spirit happens.  it certainly is not mind and the recognitions that happen there.  no, spirit for me can unquestionably be not mind.  but at the same time is is not not mind.  no, it is something completely different ... something new ... it is not nothing.   that's where me thinks peter, or perhaps you, are introducing confusion by talking about nothing and not mind in the same breath.

Seth says
Einai 2014-03-12 08:49:45 17105
  • Answer the question what is the context of your equation/topic in 17158 ?
  • Since it is a pseudo equation it looks like it should be
  •  .... predicate calculus
  • .... boolean algebra
  • -or-
  • not an equation just munge symbology for something else in English
  • In English it is normally frowned upon I gave that reference already.

... ok i'll carefully answer this, probably tomorrow.

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