Dilemma #? of Bozo

Wanting to be Congruent, even nervous system wants to blend in & yet encountering everything as



Tags

  1. item 17199
  2. item 17088
  3. otherness
  4. incongruency

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-03-20 16:47:39 17199
so what?  17088 is not about wanting to be congruent with myself ... it is wanting myself to be congruent with others.  the presumption that it is just about me and not a relationship between me and the other is where you miss the point.  but if you presume a solipsistic world where other people are just a reflection of yourself, then perhaps you conclude that my problem is becoming congruent.

incidentally why don't you become congruent with Obama
Well you've demonstrated what congruency is like with Mark & it is also a perfect example of what the picture represents.

I doubt you will ever be congruent with another if you can't be so with yourself & furthermore don't want to be or whatever you are really stating above.  Such incongruency with yourself is almost the definition of not having integrity.  Lots of recent references abound with clues but I won't wait for you to reinvent them on your own.  The martial arts are great metaphor for other areas. In one place PR speaks about the fear of pain being a waste of time & energy which should be applied to the match itself & being with an opponent - listening to what he wants to do next, etc. I suspect that applies here. Such is the point of Effortless Power.  But it might just be NOT ME for you.
Congruency with America & Obama at the same time is not likely to occur & really hasn't so far.  I could be congruent with his resignation, however.
I will be congruent with what I choose. Your mileage may vary & usually does.


Seth says
source: mark
Well you've demonstrated what congruency is like with Mark & it is also a perfect example of what the picture represents.

well that is a wierd wierd strange sentence for you to have said and for me to listen to.

I am not saying that the sentence is not true ... to me it is quite true indeed.  Any so called "congruency", or lack thereof, between us has certainly been demonstrated. 

I think even you will agree it has been a lack of congruency that has been demonstrated. 

I also think even you will have to acknowledge that there are two different people here, you and I.

The only real strange part of your sentence is me trying to guess your meaning of the "" emoticon at the end. 

The devil is in the details.  In this case i think to understand your epistle here i must analyze it down to those details. 

As far as i can tell we are talking about a situation that looks something like this ...
{ (seth <-?congruentWith1-> seth) & (mark <-?congruentWit2-> mark) }
yields
{ seth <-?congruentWith3-> mark}
Here i have specifically named each detail of what is happening so that, should we want, we can talk very specifically.  I also included a "?" in each sub part so as not to express any opinion myself as to whether that relationship was negative or positive. 

But i think you will need to ackowledge that (3) is negative ... we fight ... we misunderstand each other ... you mockingly disrespect me ... and you apparently feel i don't appreciate your contributions and disrespect you. 

So i find it hard to believe that "" is your attitude toward (3).  I guess you are assuming the (1) is negative and that is why (3) is negative.  Ok, i think i guessed it ... perhaps strangeness resolved.  You are blaming me for the fighting and lack of understanding and in-congruence between us ... and you feel your recognition of that makes you right.

I think an objective analysis like this could help us understand what is happening here. 

Mark de LA says
Actually I don't need to , & won't, analyze what you said just above at all - it seems & abstract.
...
To grasp your own Ego you need to identify what is NOT YOU (otherness? seems to be something that impresses you)
NLP holds such as a sorting meta-program for sameness or difference.
You seem to go for the difference part with me almost in a polaric response.
...
When you take a shit in the morning and roll that log at or after the final unk do you get the feeling that it is not you or not?
...
I am more the other way with the sorting algorithm in that (except with you) I look for sameness & build my Ego with the things that are the same with me & that I like.
...
Of course there are mixtures in the meta-programs with sameness primary & difference secondary etc. And there are extremes of the poles themselves always a miss matcher & always a sameness seeker.
...
The symbol in the item body expresses the dilemma that while wanting to be accepted or appreciated or fully expressed you are still working with people who are not you who may not appreciate your distinction of how to treat otherness (in this case being you) .



Seth says
Einai 2014-03-21 09:00:13 17199

To grasp your own Ego you need to identify what is NOT YOU (otherness? seems to be something that impresses you)
NLP holds such as a sorting meta-program for sameness or difference.
You seem to go for the difference part with me almost in a polaric response.
...
When you take a shit in the morning and roll that log at or after the final unk do you get the feeling that it is not you or not?
...
I am more the other way with the sorting algorithm in that (except with you) I look for sameness & build my Ego with the things that are the same with me & that I like.
...
Of course there are mixtures in the meta-programs with sameness primary & difference secondary etc. And there are extremes of the poles themselves always a miss matcher & always a sameness seeker.


Well yes, grasping my ego is also recognizing what I am not.  As you observe, that is what i call "otherness". 

When i take a shit, the shit is no longer me, but i still am responsible for it.  I don't think anybody is going to appreciate me putting my shit on their doorstep.  The same goes for what i say.  Once said, the saying effects what i am not ... just like the shit, that effect is no longer me ... i still recognize a partial responsibility for it ... yet now that responsibility is shared, because it is now on the doorstep of somebody else ... whom i am not responsible for.   

It is interesting to appreciate that what is not me, what is otherness to me, is not a thing that i should presume to know.  Obviously i find much in that otherness to what is "with me & that I like" ... that usually feels rather good.  But i really can not presume that is so very much the same outside me as it is inside me.  I think with that kind of presumption I could fall into grave error ... and, in fact, have experienced that grave error ... not only when i find myself doing it ... but also when i find other people doing it to me.  That is why i respect otherness ... not because i glory in separating myself from it ... but because quite honestly i do not know what the fuck it is.  The only way i find out what it is, is by interacting with it.   And that is how i discover the sameness that you seem to love so much.

source: mark
The symbol in the item body expresses the dilemma that while wanting to be accepted or appreciated or fully expressed you are still working with people who are not you who may not appreciate your distinction of how to treat otherness (in this case being you) .

Well yes, the picture represents not-me and is the same thing i refer to as "otherness".  Now, I am responsible for myself, please see The Declaration Of My Personal Independence.  I am not responsible for that which is not me.  Consequently how i am accepted or appreciated or understood by others is not-me.  I am only partially responsible for it ... see shit above.  I guess that is why you call it "my dilemma" ... well ok, i am quite happy to think of it as such .


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